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Baptisms at the Athletics Complex


RunInRed

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The reason this is a problem: Will other athletes feel pressured to do this in order to remain in good graces with the coaching staff and the school, or consider this as a way to get playing time or benefits not available to unbaptized players?

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2 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

OK, so aren't there dozens of churches in the Auburn area that you could have done this at?  Or maybe someone's swimming pool?  I'm sure someone in the AD has a place with a pool.  And for the record, Chewacla is a completely proper place to hold these ceremonies.

Location thoughts aside, I think the school is opening itself up to a potential issue that could have been easily avoidable.  Now I highly doubt anything comes of this and my hope is nothing does, because we've got enough things to worry about AU.  But considering all of the rulings and lawsuits that have been brought forth over the years regarding similar issues, this just reeks of stupidity to me.

Chewacla is a great place to do it... when the water isn't freezing.  Some goes for coach's pools

As for it reeking of stupidity, I would argue that the idea that people complain or worse, file lawsuits over something as completely innocuous as this is what reeks of stupidity. If you can tell me how the situation is actually harming someone, you could certainly sway me to your side of the argument, but all I see is someone arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to do something that he doesn't believe in in a place that he doesn't deem appropriate.

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Just now, Auctoritas said:

The reason this is a problem: Will other athletes feel pressured to do this in order to remain in good graces with the coaching staff and the school, or consider this as a way to get playing time or benefits not available to unbaptized players?

Highly doubtful. There's not even any evidence that a single member of the coaching staff is present. Again, people are looking for a reason to find fault in something that harms no one.

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8 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Chewacla is a great place to do it... when the water isn't freezing.  Some goes for coach's pools

As for it reeking of stupidity, I would argue that the idea that people complain or worse, file lawsuits over something as completely innocuous as this is what reeks of stupidity. If you can tell me how the situation is actually harming someone, you could certainly sway me to your side of the argument, but all I see is someone arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to do something that he doesn't believe in in a place that he doesn't deem appropriate.

Hypothetical alert:  So let's say someone in our athletic department happens to practice Santeria (there's a case happening in San Antonio right now).  In that religion, animal sacrifice is still practiced and protected by U.S. law via Supreme Court ruling in Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye v City of Hialeah.  This is a happy occasion religious ceremony that wouldn't actually harm someone, much like baptism.  Should that be allowed inside the walls of the athletic department as well?

My point becomes, when you open it up to one, you open it up to all.  If you're willing to take the good with the bad, the common with the uncommon, then I'm on your side.  But I'm highly skeptical of that being the case in the long run, so it becomes a simpler solution to just move locations off of a publicly funded campus.

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I am thrilled for these young men and have no issue with where or how their commitment is displayed. They have public announcements to show which college they choose. Why not the Lord they choose to serve? There are many different religious beliefs and people are indeed free to choose theirs. One day everyone will know who is right, which God they should have worshipped and which Heaven is for real. I'm pretty sure that the ones who were wrong are going to wish that someone had been a little firmer in expressing and displaying  their beliefs at that point. But of course it will be too late. If, as a Christian, I offend someone who isn't, based strictly on my display of my faith then I see it as an opportunity to present the case for Christ. It's your decision as to what you do with it. I'm not offended by other religions because I am not threatened by other religions. Congratulations to these young men. 

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13 minutes ago, Auctoritas said:

The reason this is a problem: Will other athletes feel pressured to do this in order to remain in good graces with the coaching staff and the school, or consider this as a way to get playing time or benefits not available to unbaptized players?

You bring up a good point, and that would likely be the basis for any lawsuit that was brought against the school over this - that the football coaches and support personnel created a chilled environment in which players who aren't professing Christians believe they are treated differently.  I presume (and hope) that isn't the case, but they have to be careful doing things like this.

On the other hand, as a Christian myself, I praise God for the decision these young men have made!  I pray that they continue to follow God's lead in their lives.

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11 minutes ago, Auctoritas said:

The reason this is a problem: Will other athletes feel pressured to do this in order to remain in good graces with the coaching staff and the school, or consider this as a way to get playing time or benefits not available to unbaptized players?

Very fair question and I fully believe we have coaches and administration in place that would not allow that.

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13 minutes ago, Auctoritas said:

The reason this is a problem: Will other athletes feel pressured to do this in order to remain in good graces with the coaching staff and the school, or consider this as a way to get playing time or benefits not available to unbaptized players?

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5 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Hypothetical alert:  So let's say someone in our athletic department happens to practice Santeria (there's a case happening in San Antonio right now).  In that religion, animal sacrifice is still practiced and protected by U.S. law via Supreme Court ruling in Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye v City of Hialeah.  This is a happy occasion religious ceremony that wouldn't actually harm someone, much like baptism.  Should that be allowed inside the walls of the athletic department as well?

My point becomes, when you open it up to one, you open it up to all.  If you're willing to take the good with the bad, the common with the uncommon, then I'm on your side.  But I'm highly skeptical of that being the case in the long run, so it becomes a simpler solution to just move locations off of a publicly funded campus.

Baptism isn't illegal, last time I checked. 

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Just now, Barnacle said:

Baptism isn't illegal, last time I checked. 

Neither is animal sacrifice for religious purposes.  Thus why I said as much by citing the prevailing case law.

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3 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Hypothetical alert:  So let's say someone in our athletic department happens to practice Santeria (there's a case happening in San Antonio right now).  In that religion, animal sacrifice is still practiced and protected by U.S. law via Supreme Court ruling in Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye v City of Hialeah.  This is a happy occasion religious ceremony that wouldn't actually harm someone, much like baptism.  Should that be allowed inside the walls of the athletic department as well?

My point becomes, when you open it up to one, you open it up to all.  If you're willing to take the good with the bad, the common with the uncommon, then I'm on your side.  But I'm highly skeptical of that being the case in the long run, so it becomes a simpler solution to just move locations off of a publicly funded campus.

Animal sacrifice would be a bit harder to setup, and the cleaning staff could very likely take issue with it, but if there was a place where it made sense (you know, like a pool makes sense for baptism), why not? After all, colleges are a place of learning and it gives students the opportunity to learn about other cultures. As long as no one is breaking any actual laws (questionable interpretations of government documents don't count), or hurting anyone (offending or hurting someone's feelings is not actually hurting someone), then I'm all about live and let live. People really just need to mind their own business if you ask me.

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Just now, Brad_ATX said:

Neither is animal sacrifice for religious purposes.  Thus why I said as much by citing the prevailing case law.

It isn't? I just assumed it was, hence my comment. I'm interested to read that case now...

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2 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Baptism isn't illegal, last time I checked. 

Yup... as long as you let them come up after you put them under, it's all good.

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8 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Hypothetical alert:  So let's say someone in our athletic department happens to practice Santeria (there's a case happening in San Antonio right now).  In that religion, animal sacrifice is still practiced and protected by U.S. law via Supreme Court ruling in Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye v City of Hialeah.  This is a happy occasion religious ceremony that wouldn't actually harm someone, much like baptism.  Should that be allowed inside the walls of the athletic department as well?

My point becomes, when you open it up to one, you open it up to all.  If you're willing to take the good with the bad, the common with the uncommon, then I'm on your side.  But I'm highly skeptical of that being the case in the long run, so it becomes a simpler solution to just move locations off of a publicly funded campus.

I guess it depends, is there a sanitation or public health/safety concern resulting from the animal sacrifice?

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2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Animal sacrifice would be a bit harder to setup, and the cleaning staff could very likely take issue with it, but if there was a place where it made sense (you know, like a pool makes sense for baptism), why not? After all, colleges are a place of learning and it gives students the opportunity to learn about other cultures. As long as no one is breaking any actual laws (questionable interpretations of government documents don't count), or hurting anyone (offending or hurting someone's feelings is not actually hurting someone), then I'm all about live and let live. People really just need to mind their own business if you ask me.

Fair enough.  That's a consistent, reasoned response.  I'm usually pretty live and let live also, just with a few boundaries here and there.

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2 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Fair enough.  That's a consistent, reasoned response.  I'm usually pretty live and let live also, just with a few boundaries here and there.

:cheers:

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8 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

I guess it depends, is there a sanitation or public health/safety concern resulting from the animal sacrifice?

Debatable depending on clean up procedures, but let's assume no.  While the hypothetical was obviously out there, it was intended to test the boundaries of some on here.  If you're OK with it, because religious freedom goes all ways when laws aren't being broken, then we're done here because that's a consistent, reasoned response.  If it's not OK, that's where I have issues.  And my gut tells me AU officials would not let a chicken sacrifice happen in the athletic department, even if all sanitation guidelines could be guaranteed.

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2 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Debatable depending on clean up procedures, but let's assume yes.  While the hypothetical was obviously out there, it was intended to test the boundaries of some on here.  If you're OK with it, because religious freedom goes all ways when laws aren't being broken, then we're done here because that's a consistent, reasoned response.  If it's not OK, that's where I have issues.  And my gut tells me AU officials would not let a chicken sacrifice happen in the athletic department, even if all sanitation guidelines could be guaranteed.

I haven’t seen one single person on this forum say they weren’t okay with this. So, what are we arguing about again? 

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Just now, Auctoritas said:

You make a persuasive case. 

Wasn’t trying to persuade you. If we are going to run with hypotheticals might as well add some gifs to further the imaginations. 

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19 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

Chette's on staff.  Also, if you look closely, that's Todd Van Emst, the official Auburn Football photographer, taking pics

http://www.auburntigers.com/ot/staff-directory.html

Chette is "on staff" but he is paid by the Fellowship of Christian Athletes to avoid any conflict. This was thoroughly explained to the attendees of an Auburn Club leadership conference that I attended. In fact that is how all university chaplains are handled for just that reason. Most of the university chaplains in the SEC were actually trained by Chette.

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2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Chette is "on staff" but he is paid by the Fellowship of Christian Athletes to avoid any conflict. This was thoroughly explained to the attendees of an Auburn Club leadership conference that I attended. In fact that is how all university chaplains are handled for just that reason. Most of the university chaplains in the SEC were actually trained by Chette.

Hypothetically, what would you say if I told you I had evidence of a coach who attended?

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2 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

Hypothetically, what would you say if I told you I had evidence of a coach who attended?

That depends. Did the coach broadcast his attendance to the team or did he just quietly attended to support the players who chose to participate?

Also, were there other ceremonies of a religious (but not Christian) or non-religious nature that he attended to support other players?

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