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Rhett comments on his departure


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13 minutes ago, toddc said:

You contradicted yourself a little by saying we run up big numbers on mediocre defenses , but can’t against great defenses; and then listed our big wins against two of the best defense in the country in Alabama and Georgia . I got your point anyway.

The UGA and Bama games were awesome games against really good defenses.  I can't take that away and it was awesome.  But when you look at the great defenses we have played in the last 5 years we typically see more of the results we have against Clemson than we see from those two games.

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On 3/29/2018 at 2:21 PM, WarEagle1982 said:

I have some connections close to Chip in the high school coaching ranks.  Word is he has said if he had it to do over he would never work under an offensive minded HC that is so paranoid about turning loose of the reigns.

Well that must be awesome for recruiting.

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On 3/29/2018 at 2:21 PM, WarEagle1982 said:

I have some connections close to Chip in the high school coaching ranks.  Word is he has said if he had it to do over he would never work under an offensive minded HC that is so paranoid about turning loose of the reigns.

Then either Lindsey is a full-out fool or the "word" is wrong. Lindsey coached under Gus at Auburn in the 2013 season. He knew exactly what he was getting into when he returned to Auburn. Since I don't think Lindsey is a total fool, I'm saying that "word" is just another example of bammer bullcrap being spread.

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On 3/28/2018 at 8:12 AM, Mikey said:

And the ten wins were on _______(fill in the blanks, anybody but Gus). :thumbsdown:

 To include wins over the turds and thuga.

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On 3/31/2018 at 12:27 AM, Mikey said:

Then either Lindsey is a full-out fool or the "word" is wrong. Lindsey coached under Gus at Auburn in the 2013 season. He knew exactly what he was getting into when he returned to Auburn. Since I don't think Lindsey is a total fool, I'm saying that "word" is just another example of bammer bullcrap being spread.

Because there is no difference between Year 1 and Year 5. There is no difference between what info a GA has access to and what an OC is promised in the interview process 4 years later. There's no way that Lindsey saw how his predecessor was very publicly given full control of the offense just a year prior just like the rest of us did. (Well, except a couple people who refuse to believe it, even after their shining beacon of hope said it himself.) It just can't be true that Gus coerced him into moving out of the box where he had always coached from and onto the sidelines so that Gus's friend and confidant could be his eyes in the sky. There's no way that he was surprised that his boss told him to stop scoring points for an entire 2nd half on the road against a divisional rival. Nope, he totally should have expected all of it.

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55 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Because there is no difference between Year 1 and Year 5. There is no difference between what info a GA has access to and what an OC is promised in the interview process 4 years later. There's no way that Lindsey saw how his predecessor was very publicly given full control of the offense just a year prior just like the rest of us did. (Well, except a couple people who refuse to believe it, even after their shining beacon of hope said it himself.) It just can't be true that Gus coerced him into moving out of the box where he had always coached from and onto the sidelines so that Gus's friend and confidant could be his eyes in the sky. There's no way that he was surprised that his boss told him to stop scoring points for an entire 2nd half on the road against a divisional rival. Nope, he totally should have expected all of it.

So, you work on a "project" under a guy for a year and don't have a clue about what's going on or how much authority he gives subordinates? As I noted above, unless Lindsey is a total fool, he knew exactly what he was getting into.

 

PS: " his boss told him to stop scoring points for an entire 2nd half " Do you realize how silly this assertion is?

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24 minutes ago, Mikey said:

So, you work on a "project" under a guy for a year and don't have a clue about what's going on or how much authority he gives subordinates? As I noted above, unless Lindsey is a total fool, he knew exactly what he was getting into.

Okay. I'll try saying the same thing a different way. I suspect that you will once again ignore and disregard it in service to your Gustav Good Everyone Else Bad dogma, but heregoes.

Lindsey was here for one year prior as an offensive analyst in 2013, which was Gus's 2nd year as a head coach and 1st as a head coach at a major football program. 

2013 was also Rhett Lashlee's 3rd year as an offensive coordinator, his 2nd as Gus's OC, and his 1st at a major football program.

You might say that Rhett, like Gus, was still very young in the profession and learning the ropes. Can you agree with that, Mikey?

Do you think it's possible that, given those circumstances, Lashlee might not been afforded the same level of autonomy- a 3rd year OC in his 1st year at a major program in his head coach's 2nd year as an HC and 1st at a major program- that a more experienced offensive coordinator might be granted in the head coach's 5th year? Can you agree that the circumstances aren't entirely the same?

Do you disagree that Gus handed more control over to Rhett Lashlee in 2016? I mean, you've never acknowledged it, it seems. But maybe you'll answer a direct question about it now? 

Do you really think that Lindsey should have expected to maintain the exact same relationship with Gus in 2017 that Rhett Lashlee did in 2013?

 

 

 

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On 3/30/2018 at 11:27 PM, Mikey said:

Then either Lindsey is a full-out fool or the "word" is wrong. Lindsey coached under Gus at Auburn in the 2013 season. He knew exactly what he was getting into when he returned to Auburn. Since I don't think Lindsey is a total fool, I'm saying that "word" is just another example of bammer bullcrap being spread.

The bammers are spreading bullcrap to a high school coach with former ties to Lindsey?  The HS coach is now spreading fake news that Lindsey has mixed feelings about taking a job where the HC can't find it in himself to trust his staff enough to let them do their jobs?  

First of all, I don't know what the bammers would gain by spreading this type of stuff (since it's only been mentioned on this little board.)  Second, I don't doubt that Lindsey may have second thoughts about coaching under Gus.  Third, if Lindsey has done an ounce of research prior to accepting the job, then he would've known exactly what he was getting into.  

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

There's no way that he was surprised that his boss told him to stop scoring points for an entire 2nd half on the road against a divisional rival.

Wat? :dead:

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On 3/30/2018 at 8:47 AM, bigbird said:

I said Oklahoma, and the question was which offense has been consistently great or consistent at all.

2017 #1 total offense

2016 #3 total offense

2015  #4 total offense

2014 #20 total offense

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2013-team-offense.html

Also..

4/5 in this last 5 meetings vs the SEC


2018  OU 45 UGA 54
2017  OU 35 AU 19 
2015  OU 31 UTk 24                                
2014  OU 34 UTk 10                           
2014  OU 45 UA 31

Avg 38 pt/gm

 

...it might just be me, but that qualifies as a pretty consistently good offense. Especially since Lincoln took over OC in 2015 and HC in 2017.

 

 

I wonder, does their current OC regret coaching under an offensive minded coach? Sure, it’s always the HC that has the final say, but it sure seems to be portrayed an Auburn problem when OCs don’t have full autonomy of the gameplan and playbook.

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36 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Lindsey was here for one year prior as an offensive analyst in 2013, which was Gus's 2nd year as a head coach and 1st as a head coach at a major football program. 

2013 was also Rhett Lashlee's 3rd year as an offensive coordinator, his 2nd as Gus's OC, and his 1st at a major football program.

You might say that Rhett, like Gus, was still very young in the profession and learning the ropes. Can you agree with that, Mikey?

 

Makes one wonder why a football factory would needcoaches still “learning the ropes.”

2013 was grand though thanks to Gus's playbook.

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20 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

I wonder, does their current OC regret coaching under an offensive minded coach? Sure, it’s always the HC that has the final say, but it sure seems to be portrayed an Auburn problem when OCs don’t have full autonomy of the gameplan and playbook.

I think it's become an Auburn problem because our offense doesn't always work. Lincoln's offense, on the other hand, is one of the best I've seen. It reminds me of Gus circa 2010. If Lincoln's playbook gets stale, I can imagine their fan base will start calling for more influence from the OC.

But... you are correct, offensive minded head coaches tend to be hands on with their offense and any OC who works under one of them should be expecting that. That is most definitely not unique to Auburn.

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13 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I think it's become an Auburn problem because our offense doesn't always work. Lincoln's offense, on the other hand, is one of the best I've seen. It reminds me of Gus circa 2010. If Lincoln's playbook gets stale, I can imagine their fan base will start calling for more influence from the OC.

See: UGA circa 2006, as @bigbird pointed out and which certain folks around here will continue to ignore.

Quote

But... you are correct, offensive minded head coaches tend to be hands on with their offense and any OC who works under one of them should be expecting that. That is most definitely not unique to Auburn.

Absolutely. Gus always will and should exert his influence on the offense. Of course he should. So should nick saban and Bill Belichick and Rush Probst and every head coach in football. It's a matter of to what level any given head coach should do that. And it's not like it's set in stone.  In fact, Les Miles is the only head coach I can think of in recent times who just flatly refused to evolve the way his offense was run. Trying to remember how that worked out for him...

Some folks around here refuse to acknowledge that Gus has changed how he participates in our offense at times in each of the last two seasons and we have immediately seen dramatically better results. He gave Rhett full play-calling duties last season and we immediately got much better. Chip moved up to the box and sent Gus's proxy back down to the sidelines this season and we immediately got much better. Each time, Gus demonstrated that he was becoming a better head coach. Not sure why or how that twists knickers. 

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2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I think it's become an Auburn problem because our offense doesn't always work. Lincoln's offense, on the other hand, is one of the best I've seen. It reminds me of Gus circa 2010. If Lincoln's playbook gets stale, I can imagine their fan base will start calling for more influence from the OC.

Correct. IMO, calling for more influence from the OC when the HC’s record as OC and as an offensive HC is far more impressive is when things get awkward and messy. Because as you mentioned, offensive minded HCs do tend to be hands-on wirh the offense and their extra weight of power will always have the final say. Not to mention it basically neutralizes the strengths of the HC and the whole reason why we hired the OC to be HC. We hired Gus as HC not because of his abilities to oversee the program, but because we expected his OC abilities to continue despite the extra workload as HC. It’s basically attacking the symptoms and not the cause by calling for OC changes. Basically, this may seem extreme but if a HC is tied to the hip of the offense and his grip cannot be clawed away from the offense, then if changes are required on offense, then it’s the HC that has to go. 

 

2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

offensive minded head coaches tend to be hands on with their offense and any OC who works under one of them should be expecting that. That is most definitely not unique to Auburn.

Nailed it. 

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2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

It’s basically attacking the symptoms and not the cause by calling for OC changes. 

Unfortunately, I don't know that there's a way to cure what ails us, so all we might be able to do is mitigate the symptoms. I've talked about it before but a lot of our problem is that Gus can't dedicate the ridiculous amount of time to game planning that he was able to as an OC. As a HC, there's just too much else on his plate. Yes, he is one of the greatest offensive minds to coach in college football in the past decade, as many amazing games show, but he was getting 4 hours of sleep a night being that guy. That's just how long it takes him to do what he did. Now he has to manage coaches, the personal lives of athletes, the other demands of the program, and still get at least the 4 hours.

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7 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Unfortunately, I don't know that there's a way to cure what ails us, so all we might be able to do is mitigate the symptoms. I've talked about it before but a lot of our problem is that Gus can't dedicate the ridiculous amount of time to game planning that he was able to as an OC. As a HC, there's just too much else on his plate. Yes, he is one of the greatest offensive minds to coach in college football in the past decade, as many amazing games show, but he was getting 4 hours of sleep a night being that guy. That's just how long it takes him to do what he did. Now he has to manage coaches, the personal lives of athletes, the other demands of the program, and still get at least the 4 hours.

It's basic to how advancement works. As you take on bigger responsibilities, you delegate existing ones. It's beyond me why anyone continues to struggle with this. 

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13 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Unfortunately, I don't know that there's a way to cure what ails us,

I did edit my post just in case you want to address the new changes. 

 

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's beyond me why anyone continues to struggle with this. 

I realize we have never gotten along, but otherwise you were usually agreeable and over-the-top PC in your posts. Not sure when you got so confrontational but you should probably go back to the other loofus. 

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@aujeff11, I'm not sure OU's OC has more autonomy or not, but to me it seems like they are afforded more flexibility in play calling, tendency, and frequency.  Having watched OU many times, what makes their O so dangerous is that they are unpredictable in their play calls as well as their tendencies. I admire that from them. 

Their O, to me, looks and performs a lot like the Todd/Tate offense of '09. They run equally inside as outside as well as pass into all 3 passing zones without hesitation. They attack all areas of the field, which by default makes it more difficult to defend. 

As long as our OC is directed to avoid particular areas of the field or influenced as to when to call plays our O will never be as difficult to defend...no matter who is calling the plays

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5 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I'm not sure OU's OC has more autonomy or not, but to me it seems like they are afforded more flexibility in play calling, tendency, and frequency.

Other offensively minded HCs and their relationship toward their OCs has been something I’ve wondered about since Lashlee’s comments. Even today, I’m sure most people still think of Oklahoma’s offense as Lincoln’s, but, like you said, the current OC is probably afforded more flexibility as long as it’s aligned within the HC’s scheme. I’m sure the same can be said about the Saban-Kirby dynamic and other defensive minded duos of coaches. 

 

15 minutes ago, bigbird said:

As long as our OC is directed to avoid particular areas of the field or influenced as to when to call plays our O will never be as difficult to defend.

This is painfully correct. Exposed tendencies and predicability has been a problem of ours for a while now. 

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2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

It's basic to how advancement works. As you take on bigger responsibilities, you delegate existing ones. It's beyond me why anyone continues to struggle with this. 

Architects and designers, like me, struggle with this.  I'm perfectionistic in that I like things to be at a particular level of quality and I like to ensure that the architectural design has a certain creative story aspect behind it.  I only trust a few very talented people in my office to carry out some of these tasks that used to be my sole responsibility.  As a firm principal, it's difficult letting go...which often leads to longer and longer hours at the office particularly if my young superstar staff is tied up on other projects and I have to rely on those whose talents are suited for other aspects of the job.   My fear is that we will put out a design that does not have "it"...not innovate, not creative, or of lesser quality.

I still question whether Gus really wants to be an OC or a HC.  I'm sure he likes the prestige, autonomy, and money that goes with the HC title...but probably prefers to develop the offensive gameplan to a very detailed level...out of fear or because he really enjoys it or both.  His best solution is to find some extremely talented young coaches, home-grow them, and let them do their thing.

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3 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

Architects and designers, like me, struggle with this.  I'm perfectionistic in that I like things to be at a particular level of quality and I like to ensure that the architectural design has a certain creative story aspect behind it.  I only trust a few very talented people in my office to carry out some of these tasks that used to be my sole responsibility.  As a firm principal, it's difficult letting go...which often leads to longer and longer hours at the office particularly if my young superstar staff is tied up on other projects and I have to rely on those whose talents are suited for other aspects of the job.   My fear is that we will put out a design that does not have "it"...not innovate, not creative, or of lesser quality.

I still question whether Gus really wants to be an OC or a HC.  I'm sure he likes the prestige, autonomy, and money that goes with the HC title...but probably prefers to develop the offensive gameplan to a very detailed level out of fear.  His best solution is to find some extremely talented young coaches, home-grow them, and let them do their thing.

Another example would be the kitchen in a fine dining restaurant. The chef isn't cooking your food. There's a good chance he or she isn't even in the kitchen. The sous chef and everyone else on down the line are executing the chef's vision. But a lot goes into getting to a point where that handoff can be made. 

That's why I'm optimistic for 2018. I think Gus has seen that Chip can design the building and cook the food. 

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24 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

Architects and designers, like me, struggle with this.  I'm perfectionistic in that I like things to be at a particular level of quality and I like to ensure that the architectural design has a certain creative story aspect behind it.  I only trust a few very talented people in my office to carry out some of these tasks that used to be my sole responsibility.  As a firm principal, it's difficult letting go...which often leads to longer and longer hours at the office particularly if my young superstar staff is tied up on other projects and I have to rely on those whose talents are suited for other aspects of the job.   My fear is that we will put out a design that does not have "it"...not innovate, not creative, or of lesser quality.

I still question whether Gus really wants to be an OC or a HC.  I'm sure he likes the prestige, autonomy, and money that goes with the HC title...but probably prefers to develop the offensive gameplan to a very detailed level...out of fear or because he really enjoys it or both.  His best solution is to find some extremely talented young coaches, home-grow them, and let them do their thing.

This is very well said. I can vision Gus being like this in at least 85% of the initial paragraph of your post. I, believe the article of Gus’s Ten Commandments even said that Gus double checks over and over and over the playbook for fear of missing on key details. As detail oriented as he is, I think he may like being OC better as well.

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Someone mentioned somewhere about whether Gus wants to be detailed about the offense out of fear or interest or whatever (I’m botching the paraphrasing), but I think it’s probably his passion.

I imagine the complexity, trickery, etc. is what drives him. Now he just has a bunch of other crap to do and cant dedicate the time. 

Random question, every year we say it takes like 4 games to establish our identity as a team. Was this true in 2014? It’s the only year I can recall knowing the starting qb was returning. 

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1 minute ago, AidiAU said:

Someone mentioned somewhere about whether Gus wants to be detailed about the offense out of fear or interest or whatever (I’m botching the paraphrasing), but I think it’s probably his passion.

I imagine the complexity, trickery, etc. is what drives him. Now he just has a bunch of other crap to do and cant dedicate the time. 

Random question, every year we say it takes like 4 games to establish our identity as a team. Was this true in 2014? It’s the only year I can recall knowing the starting qb was returning. 

Nope. That offense was hot week 1. Another reason I have hope for this season.

And you're right. This is only the 2nd time we've returned our starting QB. 2016 doesn't count by any truly objective measure. 

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Another example would be the kitchen in a fine dining restaurant. The chef isn't cooking your food. There's a good chance he or she isn't even in the kitchen. The sous chef and everyone else on down the line are executing the chef's vision. But a lot goes into getting to a point where that handoff can be made.

This is probably the most appropriate to how Gus runs things, because in a true fine dining restaurant the chef is in the kitchen looking at every plate that goes out, turning away anything that doesn't meet his standards, and occasionally making tweaks, here and there, to the presentation to add his signature.

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