ellitor 33,039 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 minute ago, McLoofus said: Other coaches get lots of love spread throughout the recruiting forum, across many threads. And rightfully so. I'm doing everyone a kindness and keeping the Grimes discussion here. When there is a Mayo thread, I'll focus the conversation on him there. Article could have been put in the recruiting thread & stay recruit focused. When JB wins a big battle he can get love too. The last & only big timer he won was Braden Smith & the competition wasn't stiff either relative to other big time recruits, TCU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, ellitor said: Take a step back L:oof. Bottom line is all the nice things some recruits say about him don't mean Jack until he gets some big time signatures. Until he starts winning some major battles people are justified in their opinion if they feel he is a recruiting liability. Yes, it would seem that we're all entitled to our opinions. 1 minute ago, ellitor said: Article could have been put in the recruiting thread & stay recruit focused. When JB wins a big battle he can get love too. The last & only big timer he won was Braden Smith & the competition wasn't stiff either relative to other big time recruits, TCU. Yes, it would seem that we're all entitled to our opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,039 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, McLoofus said: Yes, it would seem that we're all entitled to our opinions. Yes, it would seem that we're all entitled to our opinions. Yes they are but fact is to not be a recruiting liability you have to win battles for some top guys. Until JB puts recruiting Ws on the board he is a liability in terms of landing big time recruits. I like JB. He's a good dude. Met him a few times. Very nice & personable. However, I take off the O & B glasses when evaluating him. As a recruiter where everything means soo much in the trenches, especially in the SEC, JB is a sub par recruiter for this level & there is just no other way to cut it based on results to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 minute ago, ellitor said: Yes they are but fact is to not be a recruiting liability you have to win battles for some top guys. Until JB puts recruiting Ws on the board he is a liability in terms of landing big time recruits. I like JB. He's a good dude. Met him a few times. Very nice & personable. However, I take off the O & B glasses when evaluating him. As a recruiter where everything means soo much in the trenches, especially in the SEC, JB is a sub par recruiter for this level & there is just no other way to cut it based on results to this point. Ok. I'm not really arguing otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,039 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, McLoofus said: Ok. I'm not really arguing otherwise. Ok. Then I don't see the point. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kd4au 1,145 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 21 minutes ago, ellitor said: JB is a sub par recruiter for this level It's starting to look like Horton is too, but I don't see the lack of love for him that JB gets. IMO they are both probably better coaches than recruiters and you need good coaches as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgufcm 4,096 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I’d put that slightly differently. Until he either wins the big battles or has perennial success with his recruits, people are allowed to complain. If he’s pumping out quality on the field each year, he becomes a proven scouter, and no one can justifiably complain about his recruiting. That’ll take some time to bear out or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,039 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, kd4au said: t's starting to look like Horton is too, but I don't see the lack of love for him that JB gets Horton's been getting it in the RB threads, especially recently. 6 minutes ago, kd4au said: you need good coaches as well. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,039 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, mcgufcm said: That’ll take some time to bear out or not. Not sure he'll be around that long this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augolf1716 21,058 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 55 minutes ago, ellitor said: Ok. Then I don't see the point. Lol Your sounding more and more like birdie boy. I'm concerned for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgufcm 4,096 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 @ellitor, I'm not either, but we've had that type of recruiting approach work well here in the past. Heck, a lot of Tuberville's most successful seasons were built on diamonds in the rough. I was just pointing out that a coach can earn a pass in recruiting by either landing big fish or proving that he needs the guys he lands, not the guys he missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keesler 5,915 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 hours ago, mcgufcm said: I’d put that slightly differently. Until he either wins the big battles or has perennial success with his recruits, people are allowed to complain. If he’s pumping out quality on the field each year, he becomes a proven scouter, and no one can justifiably complain about his recruiting. That’ll take some time to bear out or not. We should know this season, right? Kim/Wanogho/Horton/Harrell are all part of the 2015 class JGrimes would've evaluated at the HS level & recruited to AU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, keesler said: We should know this season, right? Kim/Wanogho/Horton/Harrell are all part of the 2015 class JGrimes would've evaluated at the HS level & recruited to AU. Only problem is they were under Hand's tutelage for 2 years, went through an OC change in the middle of that, had Hand come back down to the sideline middle of last year, went through... 4?... QBs in those 2 years..... Okay, so that's several problems, but you catch my drift. Those guys haven't been developed on JB's watch so it's not a great barometer IMO. And I think Wanogho was recruited as a DE and then moved to OL post-Grimes but I could have the timing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keesler 5,915 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, McLoofus said: Only problem is they were under Hand's tutelage for 2 years, went through an OC change in the middle of that, had Hand come back down to the sideline middle of last year, went through... 4?... QBs in those 2 years..... Okay, so that's several problems, but you catch my drift. Those guys haven't been developed on JB's watch so it's not a great barometer IMO. And I think Wanogho was recruited as a DE and then moved to OL post-Grimes but I could have the timing wrong. Thanks for the back ground info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumterAubie 3,029 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Positive results on the playing field will outweigh any deficiency in recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,039 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, SumterAubie said: Positive results on the playing field will outweigh any deficiency in recruiting. Not necessarily. Still have to land talented kids or continue developing less talented kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumterAubie 3,029 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, ellitor said: continue developing less talented kids. This is my point, Mr. Contrary. Grimes ability to get the most out of his available material outweighs whatever shortcomings he may have as a recruiter. This season should show us should the line play well. Seems Hand was lauded as a recruiter but that did not translate so well to the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,039 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, SumterAubie said: This is my point, Mr. Contrary. Grimes ability to get the most out of his available material outweighs whatever shortcomings he may have as a recruiter. This season should show us should the line play well. Seems Hand was lauded as a recruiter but that did not translate so well to the field. It hasn’t been consistently shown yet that he can though is my point. Also it’s a very difficult job to continue to coach less talented kids up to SEC level. Lastly, I wasn’t trying to be Mr. Contrary. Just giving the full picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keesler 5,915 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, SumterAubie said: This is my point, Mr. Contrary. Grimes ability to get the most out of his available material outweighs whatever shortcomings he may have as a recruiter. This season should show us should the line play well. Seems Hand was lauded as a recruiter but that did not translate so well to the field. All points to development - getting the stars on campus is one part of the job - making them into SEC level players is another part of the job. Highly ranked stars that are workout warriors and great athletes still have to be taught, trained, and developed into SEC level players. Some coaches have a history of having strong player development programs in place - other programs are deficient in this area. IMO, J. Grimes is a coach this program needed back badly - he'll get it done! WDE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I posted this in the Football Forum regarding starting OL - applies to this thread as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey 16,466 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 13 hours ago, ellitor said: Not sure he'll be around that long this time. Has he informed someone of his plans for the future? If so, will he retire/accept another job in one, two, three years? How long is "not that long" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,852 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Honestly, it is rare to find an individual who is great at both recruitment and development. The collective usually end up on dynasty teams, which doesn’t happen very often. Here and there you might have one specialty group that is consistently great but I think it also depends on your region too. I am fine with JB Grimes from a recruiting standpoint, as long as he is developing the boys he gets to play at a high level. I’ve seen enough A list recruiters, who kids play way below expectations. I watched our wonderful 2nd rounder get abused by A down lineman who originally wasn’t even going to get invited to the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 23 hours ago, McLoofus said: Yes, it would seem that we're all entitled to our opinions. Yes, it would seem that we're all entitled to our opinions. Not when they are wrong....? and some folks on this forum will quickly explain that to you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 32 minutes ago, AU64 said: Not when they are wrong....? and some folks on this forum will quickly explain that to you.... Hey! I resemble that remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUsince72 11,084 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 7 hours ago, DAG said: Honestly, it is rare to find an individual who is great at both recruitment and development. The collective usually end up on dynasty teams, which doesn’t happen very often. Here and there you might have one specialty group that is consistently great but I think it also depends on your region too. I am fine with JB Grimes from a recruiting standpoint, as long as he is developing the boys he gets to play at a high level. I’ve seen enough A list recruiters, who kids play way below expectations. I watched are wonderful 2nd rounder get abused by A down lineman who originally wasn’t even going to get invited to the combine. Well said. As evidenced right this very moment, isn't the current OL roster peppered with a few highly rated recruits who have apparently under-performed to this point (under Hand)? I'm REAL curious to see how these same players perform this season. Then, we'll probably have more of a consensus on the value of Coach Grimes. And, depending on how long he stays at AU, obviously we'll know more about any recruiting prowess come signing day '19, '20, etc.... Sometimes you just need a coach that can flat-out COACH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, AUsince72 said: Well said. As evidenced right this very moment, isn't the current OL roster peppered with a few highly rated recruits who have apparently under-performed to this point (under Hand)? I'm REAL curious to see how these same players perform this season. Then, we'll probably have more of a consensus on the value of Coach Grimes. And, depending on how long he stays at AU, obviously we'll know more about any recruiting prowess come signing day '19, '20, etc.... Sometimes you just need a coach that can flat-out COACH!! JMO but not many offensive linemen hit their physical peak in HS and evaluating a coach on who he signs is not near as significant as evaluating a coach based on who he has playing as Juniors and Seniors. And another view...if you are playing a lot of freshmen and sophs in the OL your team (and QB) is probably gonna have a hard season. Back in the old days before the early draft, it was pretty standard for the better schools to redshirt all their young OL candidates and their starting OL was typically senior-laden with some juniors as back-ups. Maturity (physical and mental) is a key factor and coaching to take advantage it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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