WFE12

Jordan Rodgers on Stidham

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1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Yes, but more often than not, the best pure passers in the SEC have the benefit of great receivers and coaches who's offense focus on the pass.

I guess that's true but who are the pure passers in the SEC?  that actually have winning programs?  .....or anywhere else in college football if you watch any of the higher rated QBs.      Mostly I'm saying you could interchange teams or coaches or uniforms and hardly tell the difference between most of them.   

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38 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I guess that's true but who are the pure passers in the SEC?  that actually have winning programs?  .....or anywhere else in college football if you watch any of the higher rated QBs.      Mostly I'm saying you could interchange teams or coaches or uniforms and hardly tell the difference between most of them.   

It feels like there aren't that many across the nation, let alone the SEC. That's why NFL feels like they have to go to football hotbeds like Wyoming to find pure passers - even if they have pedestrian numbers.

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3 hours ago, AU64 said:

I guess that's true but who are the pure passers in the SEC?  that actually have winning programs?  .....or anywhere else in college football if you watch any of the higher rated QBs.      Mostly I'm saying you could interchange teams or coaches or uniforms and hardly tell the difference between most of them.   

In the SEC over the past few years, you look at Ole Miss, Arkansas and Missouri for great passers... and not much else in most cases. Give us Ole Miss or Arkansas... maybe even Missouri's QB/receiver combos for 2015 and 2016, and a bit of their playbook, and we content for the championship (if we keep them healthy) because we had everything else they were missing.

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2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

In the SEC over the past few years, you look at Ole Miss, Arkansas and Missouri for great passers... and not much else in most cases. Give us Ole Miss or Arkansas... maybe even Missouri's QB/receiver combos for 2015 and 2016, and a bit of their playbook, and we content for the championship (if we keep them healthy) because we had everything else they were missing.

Possibly but it is rare that anyone has all the pieces to the puzzle....so comparing teams and outcomes is problematic.  

Prompted by this discussion I tried to think back on the SEC for QBs who were polished passers and there were darned few.  Some were made to look good by their receivers and probably a couple made their receivers look good....and I don't think any coach, recent past or present who can make a legitimate claim about being good at developing QBs. 

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On 4/12/2018 at 8:04 AM, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

There was a meeting between the 3. One point after the bowl game Stidham was going pro. Was talked into coming back. I even warned this place about Stidham going pro. Lets hope AU(Gus) lives up to their promise, something he has a hard time doing. 

This offense must be incredibly restrictive if Stidham rather have left as like a mid rounder than deal with it's limitations again

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7 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

This offense must be incredibly restrictive if Stidham rather have left as like a mid rounder than deal with it's limitations again

That is if you believe the comments....

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13 hours ago, AU64 said:

Possibly but it is rare that anyone has all the pieces to the puzzle....so comparing teams and outcomes is problematic.  

Prompted by this discussion I tried to think back on the SEC for QBs who were polished passers and there were darned few.  Some were made to look good by their receivers and probably a couple made their receivers look good....and I don't think any coach, recent past or present who can make a legitimate claim about being good at developing QBs. 

I would argue that Mullen and Freeze both were good at developing QBs. In fact, I believe his ability to develop QBs is the one upside for Mullen.

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2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I would argue that Mullen and Freeze both were good at developing QBs. In fact, I believe his ability to develop QBs is the one upside for Mullen.

At a minimum, they enable their QBs to be successful throwing the ball. Jimbo will do that. Kirby... eh... remains to be seen. saban QBs, except for Hurts and maybe Sims, have always been able to make the throw when needed. Stoops, Mason... hard to tell. Muschamp... well, he probably just got really lucky with Bentley. Orgeron... lol. Pruitt... we'll see. Morris... yikes. The new Mississippi guys... uh... what are their names again? Is Missouri still in the SEC?

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3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I would argue that Mullen and Freeze both were good at developing QBs. In fact, I believe his ability to develop QBs is the one upside for Mullen.

Mullen gets a lot of credit for Dak ... prior to that I'm not sure.  Freeze recruited a couple good ones at OM but was not there long enough to know .    OM has a good upcoming QB now who should make someone look good.   

I usually look for the OCs to do the development but that might only apply for coaches with a defensive orientation and it truly helps to have a guy around for more than just one or two seasons which has been the case at AU and many other schools too.  

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2 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Mullen gets a lot of credit for Dak ... prior to that I'm not sure.  Freeze recruited a couple good ones at OM but was not there long enough to know .    OM has a good upcoming QB now who should make someone look good.   

I usually look for the OCs to do the development but that might only apply for coaches with a defensive orientation and it truly helps to have a guy around for more than just one or two seasons which has been the case at AU and many other schools too.  

Mullen did get a lot of credit for Dak, but also look at Nick Fitzgerald. Neither he or Dak were really superstars coming out of high school. As for Freeze, yes, Chad Kelley was a great recruit, but Bo Wallace was a 3-star and still ranked in the top of SEC passing QBs his whole time at Ole Miss. You pretty much know that when a player excels at a Mississippi School, they were either bought (Ole Miss) or coached up. 

Whether an OC, HC, or QB coach develops a QB is usually based on what the individual coach's specialty is. Not all OCs are QB coaches, same goes for offensive minded HCs. If neither are, that's when you bring in a QB coach.

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11 hours ago, AU64 said:

That is if you believe the comments....

You don't?

wde

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14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

At a minimum, they enable their QBs to be successful throwing the ball. Jimbo will do that. Kirby... eh... remains to be seen. saban QBs, except for Hurts and maybe Sims, have always been able to make the throw when needed. Stoops, Mason... hard to tell. Muschamp... well, he probably just got really lucky with Bentley. Orgeron... lol. Pruitt... we'll see. Morris... yikes. The new Mississippi guys... uh... what are their names again? Is Missouri still in the SEC?

Mason has actually done a good job. It seems to take his QBs longer for the light to come on, but when they do, they end up pretty dangerous. 

I would also add that I believe Saban's secret is not his QBs but his receivers making the QB's job easy. He always seems to have 1-2 superstar receivers who have a knack for getting open or coming down with the ball when they aren't.

I'm not sure I would call Muschamp having Bentley luck. That whole situation was classic legally buying a player, and it's not legal anymore.

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5 minutes ago, AUIH1 said:

You don't?

wde

no.... not entirely...

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Just now, lionheartkc said:

Mason has actually done a good job. It seems to take his QBs longer for the light to come on, but when they do, they end up pretty dangerous. 

I would also add that I believe Saban's secret is not his QBs but his receivers making the QB's job easy. He always seems to have 1-2 superstar receivers who have a knack for getting open or coming down with the ball when they aren't.

I'm not sure I would call Muschamp having Bentley luck. That whole situation was classic legally buying a player, and it's not legal anymore.

True. Let's go with the luck = preparation meeting opportunity definition. 

I've long been in the minority on saban and his QBs. No, they're not saban's secret, but they've always been pretty-to-very good, except maybe Sims. McCarron was a star and is going to be a starting QB in the NFL this year, if I'm not mistaken. McElroy and Sarah Jessica Parker were both NFL backups. That's like 6 or 7 of his 11 years right there. Tua looks like a major star in the making. And people hate on Coker, but his stats were very similar his senior year to Stidham's last year, which means they were better than all but a very small handful of AU QBs ever. Hurts is a winner, even if he probably won't play QB in the NFL (kinda like Marshall). Sims was probably the only one who just wasn't very good. They all benefited from being on great teams, but they all did their job very well. You just don't set your win minimum at 10 games for 10 years straight without very good QB play on average. 

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27 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Mullen did get a lot of credit for Dak, but also look at Nick Fitzgerald. Neither he or Dak were really superstars coming out of high school. As for Freeze, yes, Chad Kelley was a great recruit, but Bo Wallace was a 3-star and still ranked in the top of SEC passing QBs his whole time at Ole Miss. You pretty much know that when a player excels at a Mississippi School, they were either bought (Ole Miss) or coached up. 

Whether an OC, HC, or QB coach develops a QB is usually based on what the individual coach's specialty is. Not all OCs are QB coaches, same goes for offensive minded HCs. If neither are, that's when you bring in a QB coach.

NF was one of the lowest rated QBs in the conference.....mostly was a running threat but passing stats were way down the list.   Mullen just used him like Dak..2.0 but he is not near the athlete or passer.   After his injury a guy named Thompson looked pretty good and I would not be surprised to see him be the starter this year. They have a new offensive minded coach this year so he will have his own thoughts on who plays and what the offense looks like.  

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2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I've long been in the minority on saban and his QBs. No, they're not saban's secret, but they've always been pretty-to-very good, except maybe Sims. McCarron was a star and is going to be a starting QB in the NFL this year, if I'm not mistaken. McElroy and Sarah Jessica Parker were both NFL backups. That's like 6 or 7 of his 11 years right there. Tua looks like a major star in the making. And people hate on Coker, but his stats were very similar his senior year to Stidham's last year, which means they were better than all but a very small handful of AU QBs ever. Hurts is a winner, even if he probably won't play QB in the NFL (kinda like Marshall). Sims was probably the only one who just wasn't very good. They all benefited from being on great teams, but they all did their job very well. You just don't set your win minimum at 10 games for 10 years straight without very good QB play on average. 

Yea, I totally sit on the other side of the fence that the only reason that bama QBs end up in the NFL is because they get credit for what the whole team accomplishes and they are destined to hold a clipboard. McCarron is currently fielding questions from NFL reporters about how the Bills plan to bring in a rookie to start over him, while at this time last year his previous team, who he had to file a grievance against to get free agent status, desperately tried to trade him. McElroy's NFL career consisted of <40 pass attempts. John Parker Wilson never even saw the field in 4 seasons as clipboard jockey. Hurts is definitely a Marshall clone and will likely play some other position in the NFL. A part of me believe that Saban didn't realize what he had when he recruited Hurts, and totally planned on him backing up Bateman or Barnett. In all honesty, Tua is the first glimmer of a great QB I've seen at bama in the last 30 years, and I wonder how Saban and his current OC's penchant for relatively conservative offenses is going to work for him. 

On the other hand, bama cranks out star receivers. They currently have 7 wide receivers and a tight end on active NFL rosters. When the game is on the line, you never heard an announcer say "put the ball in McCarron's hands" or "it's up to McElroy", it's always "Find a way to get the ball to Amari Cooper" or "Target Julio Jones".

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46 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

True. Let's go with the luck = preparation meeting opportunity definition. 

I've long been in the minority on saban and his QBs. No, they're not saban's secret, but they've always been pretty-to-very good, except maybe Sims. McCarron was a star and is going to be a starting QB in the NFL this year, if I'm not mistaken. McElroy and Sarah Jessica Parker were both NFL backups. That's like 6 or 7 of his 11 years right there. Tua looks like a major star in the making. And people hate on Coker, but his stats were very similar his senior year to Stidham's last year, which means they were better than all but a very small handful of AU QBs ever. Hurts is a winner, even if he probably won't play QB in the NFL (kinda like Marshall). Sims was probably the only one who just wasn't very good. They all benefited from being on great teams, but they all did their job very well. You just don't set your win minimum at 10 games for 10 years straight without very good QB play on average. 

You and me both are the minorities. I have been saying this for sometime now. The QBs like AJ, Jacob and McElroy were freaking leaders and made plays when they had to be done . They stayed cool, calm and collective and they also had to make plays when needed. Also, just having talent around you , doesn’t make you a quality QB. If that is the case then what is going on with LSU? Florida? Florida state last year? Michigan? I am going to say it again LSU? Even Clemson took a little bit of a step back than their usual gaudy numbers. I am going to say this as well. It is not easy putting up high level performances when you get everyone’s best shot. Again ask Auburn about LSU/UCF where we were clear favorites in those games. To me it is just a slap in the face to the skill set and competitive nature of those guys.

edit: even someone like Blake sims. He has pat white like collegiate numbers. 

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9 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

McCarron is currently fielding questions from NFL reporters about how the Bills plan to bring in a rookie to start over him, while at this time last year his previous team, who he had to file a grievance against to get free agent status, desperately tried to trade him. McElroy's NFL career consisted of <40 pass attempts. John Parker Wilson never even saw the field in 4 seasons as clipboard jockey.

And those 3 guys have found a LOT more NFL success than the vast majority of QBs. Gino Torretta won a Heisman and never started an NFL game. 

NFL starters are the elite of the elite. It's damned near impossible to become one. It is not a measure of being a very good quarterback. It is a measure of likely being the best athlete to have ever come out of your home town. 

I'm not talking about great or elite. All I'm saying is that his QBs have been very good. They don't make mistakes. They maintain high completion percentages. They typically have passing stats that our QBs would kill for. They usually get paid when they leave Alabama which, whether or not you ever start, makes you a damned good quarterback. The NFL can look at film and tell whether a guy is making plays or merely being propped up by the talent around him. 

17 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

On the other hand, bama cranks out star receivers. They currently have 7 wide receivers and a tight end on active NFL rosters. When the game is on the line, you never heard an announcer say "put the ball in McCarron's hands" or "it's up to McElroy", it's always "Find a way to get the ball to Amari Cooper" or "Target Julio Jones".

If you're telling me that receivers bear more responsibility for successfully completed passes than quarterbacks, then I'm just going to have to agree to super duper big time disagree. 

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

At a minimum, they enable their QBs to be successful throwing the ball. 

 

59 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I would also add that I believe Saban's secret is not his QBs but his receivers making the QB's job easy.

For the record, we were agreeing right here, so HIGH FIVE FRIDAY! 

25 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

When the game is on the line, you never heard an announcer say "put the ball in McCarron's hands" or "it's up to McElroy", it's always "Find a way to get the ball to Amari Cooper" or "Target Julio Jones".

And this, albeit perhaps unintentionally, is really the point I was making. saban trusts his offenses to run or throw the ball successfully, depending on what the game is giving him. 

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14 minutes ago, AU64 said:

NF was one of the lowest rated QBs in the conference.....mostly was a running threat but passing stats were way down the list.   Mullen just used him like Dak..2.0 but he is not near the athlete or passer.   After his injury a guy named Thompson looked pretty good and I would not be surprised to see him be the starter this year. They have a new offensive minded coach this year so he will have his own thoughts on who plays and what the offense looks like.  

For the record... Fitzgerald was a 3* who accounted for a whopping 77% of the touchdowns for Mississippi State in 2016, and more than half of those were passes.

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15 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

For the record... Fitzgerald was a 3* who accounted for a whopping 77% of the touchdowns for Mississippi State in 2016, and more than half of those were passes.

I understand but last year was much different.........but with Mullen gone, the new HC might have different views on a running QB, 

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36 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I understand but last year was much different.........but with Mullen gone, the new HC might have different views on a running QB, 

A good offensive minded coach doesn’t try to reinvent the wheel . Actually a good coach . Sure work on him being more accurate , but absolutely do not take away his strength .

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20 minutes ago, DAG said:

A good offensive minded coach doesn’t try to reinvent the wheel . Actually a good coach . Sure work on him being more accurate , but absolutely do not take away his strength .

Les Miles emailed me to say that he agrees with you. I don't know why his resume was attached, though, or why he was asking if I knew anyone who was hiring? That's the Mad Hatter for ya, I guess!

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I think JS will be given much more freedom in the offense than in 2017. He had little latitude last year of which some was a good thing and well, some was really bad. If he is given just 25% more latitude, look for him to put up some gaudy numbers that I think he is fully capable of doing.

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