lionheartkc 6,150 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, McLoofus said: Personally, I would never ask him to be. I only ask that he get close to maximizing the talent that he *does* have. I don't think that's been done recently. It clearly was in 2013. (On the offensive side of the ball... and defense wasn't that shabby down the stretch, and was pretty good the first half of 2014... but I digress...) Big agree on the OC part. Hopefully we've got him, and he can be crazy successful, and can move on to a better job, and then we can find another one, and Gus will let him do his thing... See... I think he had his guys playing above their talent in 2013. Marshall alone is a prime example. Without Gus's scheme, if Marshall wanted to be a QB, he'd have been middle of the road at best. Gus's scheme (and the fact that Defensive Coordinators had never seen anything exactly like it), made him a superstar. Same goes for several other players. I also think he's had his starters maximizing their talent (some have taken longer than others... NCM)... I just think that has been done to the detriment of the rest of the roster. They spend so much time getting the 1st team to do everything right, that the 2nd team isn't ready when it comes their time. Or maybe the 2nd team is the 2nd team in part because they aren't doing something that he wants to see. The fact that we don't just win with a healthy first team, we dominate, says something is working. The fact that we fall apart when we lose a starter says something isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strychnine 1,802 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said: See... I think he had his guys playing above their talent in 2013. Marshall alone is a prime example. Without Gus's scheme, if Marshall wanted to be a QB, he'd have been middle of the road at best. Gus's scheme (and the fact that Defensive Coordinators had never seen anything exactly like it), made him a superstar. Same goes for several other players. I also think he's had his starters maximizing their talent (some have taken longer than others... NCM)... I just think that has been done to the detriment of the rest of the roster. They spend so much time getting the 1st team to do everything right, that the 2nd team isn't ready when it comes their time. Or maybe the 2nd team is the 2nd team in part because they aren't doing something that he wants to see. The fact that we don't just win with a healthy first team, we dominate, says something is working. The fact that we fall apart when we lose a starter says something isn't. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I will remain convinced that it is not possible for a college football team to field a defense that could stop the Auburn offense that showed up to play in the Georgia Dome on December 7, 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said: The fact that we don't just win with a healthy first team, we dominate That's not always true, though. Also, we tend to dominate the soft meat of our schedule doing one thing pretty well. Half our roster goes virtually unused. That's why this past November was extra exciting. We broke the trend. And fortunately for us, the QB and the receivers all came back. This is one time where I'm just stating an observation on what has transpired and not using it as a predictor of future results. As I mentioned a few posts back, I expect the 2019 draft to be substantial. More importantly, I see a couple of our guys as legit NFL players. Just let me hear "Auburn" on those prime time starting lineups, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionheartkc 6,150 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, McLoofus said: That's not always true, though. Also, we tend to dominate the soft meat of our schedule doing one thing pretty well. Half our roster goes virtually unused. That's why this past November was extra exciting. We broke the trend. And fortunately for us, the QB and the receivers all came back. This is one time where I'm just stating an observation on what has transpired and not using it as a predictor of future results. As I mentioned a few posts back, I expect the 2019 draft to be substantial. More importantly, I see a couple of our guys as legit NFL players. Just let me hear "Auburn" on those prime time starting lineups, baby. Yes, we broke the trend in November and we took the beat down to another level against most of the middle SEC teams last year. The funny thing is, going into probably 75% of those games people were saying that we might not beat the other team. Then, 6 months later, we're saying the fact that we took them to the woodshed is not a big deal because they are "soft". The reality is, we beat most teams worse than any of their other opponents, including the national champs... and we beat them too. Then we lost the guy the offense was built around and fell apart. HOPEFULLY the coaches realize that is our Achilles heel and do something about it. I'm with you on how we are trending. Just the fact that they are talking about 8 of our guys having a shot at being drafted in the next couple of days is huge. These are guys who suffered through 2015-16 and have the lack of film to show for it. Many draft specialists are also calling many of them undervalued. I've heard that about Kerryon, Davis, and Matthews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keesler 5,924 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 51 minutes ago, lionheartkc said: The fact that we don't just win with a healthy first team, we dominate, says something is working. The fact that we fall apart when we lose a starter says something isn't. Yet AU has been shaky as hell in the first games of every dang season, losing 5 games in the last 3 yrs in the month of September when the first teamers were as healthy and fresh as any time in the season. That tells me something ain't working in another area of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburn4ever 1,266 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Gus Malzahn is way over paid. And what do we get on our return? a coach head coach who 12-2, 8-5, 7-6, 8-5, 10-4 with loses to Clemson 14-6, LSU 27-23 after going up 20-0 in Baton Rouge, Georgia 28-7 in the SEC championship game and then UCF 34-27 to close out the 2017 season. Oh yeah, all 4 of Auburn's loses came away from Jordan-Hare Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionheartkc 6,150 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, keesler said: Yet AU has been shaky as hell in the first games of every dang season, losing 5 games in the last 3 yrs in the month of September when the first teamers were as healthy and fresh as any time in the season. That tells me something ain't working in another area of the program. Definite truth there as well. You can track that all the way back to 2010. We shouldn't see that this year since we have an established offense with this group, but Gus still needs to figure out his team before they hit the field, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddc 13,194 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 5 hours ago, lionheartkc said: Again, top 21% of ALL coaches in Div 1. You can throw out anything else you want and it won't change the fact that he is out performing 79% of his peers, doing it in the toughest league in the country, and doing it while directly competing for recruits with the bama machine and now Saban's offspring in GA. To continue trying to argue that he is not good shows personal bias against him. If you want to argue that he's not the best, go right ahead, you'd be right. Heck, if you want to argue he's not great, you can make that argument as well, but arguing he's not good is literally living in denial. Boooooommm, can we lock this thread now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murpjf88 506 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 On 4/20/2018 at 7:04 PM, bigbird said: Saban, before the REC, was an average coach also. The only difference between Saban now and Saban then was the talent level of his players. The only difference between Hughes high school Gus and Auburn Gus is the talent level of his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird 60,441 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, murpjf88 said: The only difference between Saban now and Saban then was the talent level of his players. The only difference between Hughes high school Gus and Auburn Gus is the talent level of his players. Disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionheartkc 6,150 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, murpjf88 said: The only difference between Saban now and Saban then was the talent level of his players. The only difference between Hughes high school Gus and Auburn Gus is the talent level of his players. Saban has had years to build a machine that he didn't have time or the resources to build at LSU. As for Gus, as a high school head coach, he had plenty of time to run the program and play mad genius with the offensive scheme. At Auburn, he can't dedicate the time to the offense and do all of his head coach jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murpjf88 506 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 58 minutes ago, lionheartkc said: Saban has had years to build a machine that he didn't have time or the resources to build at LSU. As for Gus, as a high school head coach, he had plenty of time to run the program and play mad genius with the offensive scheme. At Auburn, he can't dedicate the time to the offense and do all of his head coach jobs. Auburn's been running Malzahn's offense since he got here. Pay no attention to the name associated with the title offensive coordinator. The OC is calling the plays for Gus in the same manner that the DC is calling the plays for Saban. Did you think it was a coincidence that a defensive head coach like Saban is always at the top of the league defensively and an offensive head coach like Gus tries to be on the top of the league offensively? That's the problem! In order to run his offense correctly, you need an all world dual threat QB that can throw, run, catch and block. Cam Newton's and Nick Marshall's don't grow on trees. Of course, NM benefited from a very strong offensive line that could push piles and created gaping holes, an offensive line he didn't recruit. It literally took Nick Saban one full year to turn around Alabama's football program. Five years later, we're still waiting for Gus to turn things around after a promising start and that 1-4 record in bowl game is kind of pathetic even for a mediocre coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey 16,565 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 8 hours ago, AUIH1 said: I do not hate Gus. I believe he is a mediocre/average coach. Thus far, I am right. Prove me wrong. wde $7 million a year proves you wrong. Read it and weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidiAU 1,270 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, McLoofus said: That's not always true, though. Also, we tend to dominate the soft meat of our schedule doing one thing pretty well. Half our roster goes virtually unused. That's why this past November was extra exciting. We broke the trend. And fortunately for us, the QB and the receivers all came back. This is one time where I'm just stating an observation on what has transpired and not using it as a predictor of future results. As I mentioned a few posts back, I expect the 2019 draft to be substantial. More importantly, I see a couple of our guys as legit NFL players. Just let me hear "Auburn" on those prime time starting lineups, baby. And not University of Auburn. ??♀️??♀️??♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburnfan91 1,407 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 7 hours ago, lionheartkc said: That's easy... me·di·o·cre ˌmēdēˈōkər/ adjective of only moderate quality; not very good.av·er·age ˈav(ə)rij/Submit adjective 1. mediocre; not very good. 2. of the usual or ordinary standard, level, or quantity. Of the 129 coaches currently coaching teams in Div 1, Gus is ranked number 27 for win percentage (in the hardest conference in Div 1, no less). That puts him in the top 21% of coaches in the country. That is, by definition, above average (as average would be 50%) and certainly qualifies as good, maybe not great, certainly not exceptional, but good without a doubt. But he's now being paid a top 10 salary. He's underperforming relative to what his pay is. I'm not going to speak for anyone but myself; but my definition of an average coach is someone who goes 8-4 on a consistent basis. Do you consider 8-4 to be a 'good' season? I consider 8-4 to be average, especially considering the resources that Gus has at Auburn.............. What makes 8-4 even more frustrating is that Auburn is one of the teams that have been getting top 10 recruiting classes. So to consistently have top 10 recruiting classes but only go 8-4 makes people who aren't fans of Gus consider him an average coach. A good coach with multiple top 10 recruiting classes should be better than 8-4 more than once every 3-4 years. UGA's had 1 really good season since Gus has been at Auburn, which was last year. Let's not pretend that UGA was a powerhouse the last few years under Mark Richt and in Kirby's 1st year. An 8-5 UGA team beat us in 2016. LSU hasn't been a powerhouse program either lately. LSU hasn't had a 10 win season since 2013. Texas A&M was 8-5 in 2014 and beat us and they were 8-5 in 2016 and beat us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionheartkc 6,150 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, murpjf88 said: In order to run his offense correctly, you need an all world dual threat QB that can throw, run, catch and block. This alone proves you don't know what you are talking about as Gus has had far more years as an OC without a dual-threat QB as with, and he was successful at every stop as an OC. But hey, keep on Eeyorin'. Somebody's gotta do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionheartkc 6,150 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said: But he's now being paid a top 10 salary. He's underperforming relative to what his pay is. Already been over this. He's paid top 3 salary in the SEC and has been #2 in the SEC for the past 2 years, so he's overperforming. 32 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said: I'm not going to speak for anyone but myself; but my definition of an average coach is someone who goes 8-4 on a consistent basis. Then your definition flies in the face of the definition of average, because apparently 79% of the coaches out there do worse than 8-4 consistently. 32 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said: Do you consider 8-4 to be a 'good' season? When you are playing the 3-4 teams who are in the Play-offs, year in and year out, as well as the rest of the SEC slate... yea, 4 losses is pretty good, especially when 2 of the losses are post season. Of course, when I'm evaluating a coach, I like to look at the big picture and see why some of those losses occurred and who they were against, instead of just saying "he went 8-4, grab the pitchforks and meet me at his house". 32 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said: A good coach with multiple top 10 recruiting classes should be better than 8-4 more than once every 3-4 years. Let's look at that for the past 5 years, shall we... 2013-2017 Recruiting Rankings Average Wins Average Losses 1. bama 13 1 2. Ohio State 12 2 3. Florida State 11 3 4. LSU 9 4 5. Georgia 10 4 6. USC 10 4 7. Auburn 9 4 8. Notre Dame 8 5 9. Texas A&M 8 5 10. Florida 7 6 Wow... look at that. Funny how the number of wins and losses lines up almost perfectly with the recruiting rankings. Here's the thing people need to get. There are all kinds of levels of coaches between elite and average. Just because Gus isn't Saban, Meyer, or Fisher doesn't mean he's average, mediocre, or whatever other term you want to use to disparage him. Oh, and if you want to bring up money, Saban, Fisher and Meyer all make more than him, and Smart will likely be making as much or more soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddc 13,194 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said: Already been over this. He's paid top 3 salary in the SEC and has been #2 in the SEC for the past 2 years, so he's overperforming. Then your definition flies in the face of the definition of average, because apparently 79% of the coaches out there do worse than 8-4 consistently. When you are playing the 3-4 teams who are in the Play-offs, year in and year out, as well as the rest of the SEC slate... yea, 4 losses is pretty good, especially when 2 of the losses are post season. Of course, when I'm evaluating a coach, I like to look at the big picture and see why some of those losses occurred and who they were against, instead of just saying "he went 8-4, grab the pitchforks and meet me at his house". Let's look at that for the past 5 years, shall we... 2013-2017 Recruiting Rankings Average Wins Average Losses 1. bama 13 1 2. Ohio State 12 2 3. Florida State 11 3 4. LSU 9 4 5. Georgia 10 4 6. USC 10 4 7. Auburn 9 4 8. Notre Dame 8 5 9. Texas A&M 8 5 10. Florida 7 6 Wow... look at that. Funny how the number of wins and losses lines up almost perfectly with the recruiting rankings. Here's the thing people need to get. There are all kinds of levels of coaches between elite and average. Just because Gus isn't Saban, Meyer, or Fisher doesn't mean he's average, mediocre, or whatever other term you want to use to disparage him. Oh, and if you want to bring up money, Saban, Fisher and Meyer all make more than him, and Smart will likely be making as much or more soon. Booooommm squared(2)! Can we lock it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,957 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, toddc said: Booooommm squared(2)! Can we lock it now! No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUIH1 1,515 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 50 minutes ago, Mikey said: $7 million a year proves you wrong. Read it and weep. LMAO that you believe this. I guess you thought Jay Jacobs was a good AD, wde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburnfan91 1,407 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, lionheartkc said: Already been over this. He's paid top 3 salary in the SEC and has been #2 in the SEC for the past 2 years, so he's overperforming. Then your definition flies in the face of the definition of average, because apparently 79% of the coaches out there do worse than 8-4 consistently. When you are playing the 3-4 teams who are in the Play-offs, year in and year out, as well as the rest of the SEC slate... yea, 4 losses is pretty good, especially when 2 of the losses are post season. Of course, when I'm evaluating a coach, I like to look at the big picture and see why some of those losses occurred and who they were against, instead of just saying "he went 8-4, grab the pitchforks and meet me at his house". Let's look at that for the past 5 years, shall we... 2013-2017 Recruiting Rankings Average Wins Average Losses 1. bama 13 1 2. Ohio State 12 2 3. Florida State 11 3 4. LSU 9 4 5. Georgia 10 4 6. USC 10 4 7. Auburn 9 4 8. Notre Dame 8 5 9. Texas A&M 8 5 10. Florida 7 6 Wow... look at that. Funny how the number of wins and losses lines up almost perfectly with the recruiting rankings. Here's the thing people need to get. There are all kinds of levels of coaches between elite and average. Just because Gus isn't Saban, Meyer, or Fisher doesn't mean he's average, mediocre, or whatever other term you want to use to disparage him. Oh, and if you want to bring up money, Saban, Fisher and Meyer all make more than him, and Smart will likely be making as much or more soon. We only played Clemson in 2016 and 2017. We didn't play them in 2013, 2014, or 2015. So playing 3-4 teams who are in the playoffs is not accurate. We only played 1 team who was in the college football playoff in 2014 and 2015, Alabama. In 2016 we played 2 teams in the playoff. And in 2017 we played 3 teams who were in the playoff. So stating that we play 3-4 playoff teams year in and year out is false. As for the top 10 recruiting since 2013, guess what? 4 of those teams on that list have fired their coach within the last 2 years. Gus was on the hot seat before he beat UGA and Bama. Brian Kelly at Notre Dame was on the hot seat going into the 2017 season because they went 4-8 in 2016. There are 129 teams in the FBS. You know how many teams won 8 games last year? 49 teams won 8 or more games last year. That's 38% of the FBS that won 8 games. Winning 8 games is not that special in a 12 game season or 13 games when you include the bowl games. Gus is getting $7 million and has never won a NC. He's won 1 SEC title. Saban has won 6 NC's(2 of them since 2013) and 3 SEC titles(since 2013). Meyer has won a NC at Ohio State and 2 Big Ten titles. Fisher has won a NC and 2 ACC titles(since 2013). Guess who's not in the top 10 of recruiting since 2013? Clemson........ Dabo has definitely overperformed. He's won a NC and 3 ACC titles(since 2013). Look around the SEC, Saban is the longest tenured coach. Gus and Mark Stoops are tied for 2nd as the longest tenured coaches in the SEC. Dan Mullen was the 2nd longest tenured coach but he's at Florida now. Obviously 8-4 is not is not going to be tolerated on a consistent basis at programs that are paying top dollar for results. I just don't understand why some are getting so offended at calling a coach average if they go 8-4 consistently. If you're getting top 10 recruiting classes then 8-4 should be considered average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,472 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Time for this latest edition of "Watch Me Beat a Dead Horse" to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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