Gus is an average coach

[bigbird 60,368]

5 minutes ago, AUIH1 said:

Are the current ones since Saban has been at Alabama?   What is the same comparison for AU coaches Tuberville, Chizik and Gus?

wde

IMO, Les, Hugh, Saban, Mullen, Bilema are all upgrades at their perspective schools. Gus is very comparable to Tuberville.

 

This year's new batch of coaches have the potential to be even more of an upgrade...except maybe Luke and O. However, Luke will surprise a few people I think.

[DAG 33,955]

I will say this , if you put Gus on Alabama the last decade or so, he won’t have the same success in my eyes that Saban has. You can call it the REC, you can call it whatever you want. At the end of the day, you still have to coach, evaluate talent properly and put your players in the best position to win games. Is Gus average? No. He is solid.

People said the only reason Phil Jackson won was because he had Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. People forget Doug Collins had them too.

[AUIH1 1,515]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

The problem there is Saban ,before the REC, was average against weaker teams.  Put Saban at South Carolina , Ole Miss, AU, or LSU and he is a  middle of the road coach that will make a run every few years.  You can't compare anyone to what he is doing at UA because it is not a fair comparison. It would be like comparing American power lifters of the 70's and 80's to East German power lifters of the 70's and 80's.  There's just something that skews the numbers.

We have to agree to disagree (which pisses me off) .  There is no doubt in my mind that Nick Saban and even Kirby Smart is a far better head coach than Gus Malzahn will ever be.  I hope that I will be proved wrong.

wde

[bigbird 60,368]

1 minute ago, AUIH1 said:

We have to agree to disagree (which pisses me off) .  There is no doubt in my mind that Nick Saban and even Kirby Smart is a far better head coach than Gus Malzahn will ever be.  I hope that I will be proved wrong.

wde

If you look at Saban's stint at Michigan State(his 1st major coaching HC job) you will see a much worse performance than Gus' tenure at AU. Gus is in the period of growth that Saban was in and, IMO, has performed better against tougher teams than Saban did early in his career.  Are there things I wish Gus would do differently or learn quicker? Absolutely.  That said, I think he is growing albeit not as fast as many of us desire.

 

Michigan State

Year.        Record.       Final AP rank

'95               6-5              Unranked

'96               6-6              Unranked

'97               7-5              Unranked

'98               6-6              Unranked

'99               9-2                     7

 

34-24      .585 pct      0-3 in bowl games

[DAG 33,955]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

If you look at Saban's stint at Michigan State(his 1st major coaching HC job) you will see a much worse performance than Gus' tenure at AU. Gus is in the period of growth that Saban was in and, IMO, has performed better against tougher teams than Saban did early in his career.  Are there things I wish Gus would do differently or learn quicker? Absolutely.  That said, I think he is growing albeit not as fast as many of us desire.

 

Michigan State

Year.        Record.       Final AP rank

'95               6-5              Unranked

'96               6-6              Unranked

'97               7-5              Unranked

'98               6-6              Unranked

'99               9-2                     7

 

34-24      .585 pct      0-3 in bowl games

Now do you think that is an Apples to Apples comparison?

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

Odd thread... 

[bigbird 60,368]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

Now do you think that is an Apples to Apples comparison?

Pretty close.

Do you?

[DAG 33,955]

Just now, ClaytonAU said:

Odd thread... 

We went from Gus is average to Gus is comparable to Nick Saban.

[DAG 33,955]

Just now, bigbird said:

Pretty close.

Do you?

No ? Taking over Michigan State and Taking over Auburn is two different things. The only parallels between the two is that both of these were each of the respective coaches first big programs.

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Now do you think that is an Apples to Apples comparison?

Short answer: possibly. 

[AUIH1 1,515]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

If you look at Saban's stint at Michigan State(his 1st major coaching HC job) you will see a much worse performance than Gus' tenure at AU. Gus is in the period of growth that Saban was in and, IMO, has performed better against tougher teams than Saban did early in his career.  Are there things I wish Gus would do differently or learn quicker? Absolutely.  That said, I think he is growing albeit not as fast as many of us desire.

 

Michigan State

Year.        Record.       Final AP rank

'95               6-5              Unranked

'96               6-6              Unranked

'97               7-5              Unranked

'98               6-6              Unranked

'99               9-2                     7

 

34-24      .585 pct      0-3 in bowl games

We agree to disagree.  We should have hired Kirby Smart as our HC when we opportunity to.  Our AD failed in two separate times to make the right hire.  I hope that our new AD will  make right next hire.

wde

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

1 minute ago, AUIH1 said:

We agree to disagree.  We should have hired Kirby Smart as our HC when we opportunity to.  Our AD failed in two separate times to make the right hire.  I hope that our new AD will  make right next hire.

wde

Never understoood your undying love for Kirby. You seriously think he’s just getting these kids to come there because they want to? Kirby is cheating. 

[DAG 33,955]

I mean you can’t complain about the resources NS has at Alabama and then point to Gus Malzahn coaching abilities at Auburn as to why it’s comparable to NS at Michigan State. This is just not logical. Gus Malzahn walked into a roster full top ten. He helped get us that talent, but it is not like he went and coached up Vanderbilt. Michigan State was a horrible program when NS took over. Auburn, even though Gene Chizik left us in a bad position the year before, had a LOT of talent. That was completely a team who quit on their coach .

[Maverick.AU 13,279]

31 minutes ago, bigbird said:

IMO, Les, Hugh, Saban, Mullen, Bilema are all upgrades at their perspective schools. Gus is very comparable to Tuberville.

 

This year's new batch of coaches have the potential to be even more of an upgrade...except maybe Luke and O. However, Luke will surprise a few people I think.

I have a feeling Morris is going to be a thorn in our side. As you’ve said before, he brings a lot of things to Arkansas, with his offense, coaching connections, etc.

[AUIH1 1,515]

Gus was the only hire Jay Jacobs could make given his weak personality. The only thing Pat Dye could have contributed to AU football was his recommendation to hire Kirby Smart rather than Gus.   

 

wde

[bigbird 60,368]

Just now, DAG said:

No ? Taking over Michigan State and Taking over Auburn is two different things. The only parallels between the two is that both of these were each of the respective coaches first big programs.

That's why I said pretty close. 1st major HC job, 5 year tenure, struggling program, and occurring at  the state's 2nd most popular program.  There will never be exact comparisons.  Also, while AU had some better talent, it was a mess of a program when Gus took over.

[AUIH1 1,515]

5 minutes ago, ClaytonAU said:

Never understoood your undying love for Kirby. You seriously think he’s just getting these kids to come there because they want to? Kirby is cheating. 

Oh,  you don't think we are and why we aren't trying hard enough?

wde

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

2 minutes ago, AUIH1 said:

The only thing Pat Dye could have contributed to AU football was his recommendation to hire Kirby Smart rather than Gus.   

 

wde

I would say his biggest contribution to AU Football were the 4 SEC Championships. That’s just me though.

[AUIH1 1,515]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

That's why I said pretty close. 1st major HC job, 5 year tenure, struggling program, and occurring at  the state's 2nd most popular program.  There will never be exact comparisons.  Also, while AU had some better talent, it was a mess of a program when Gus took over.

Because of Chizik, not Tubs.   2008 was bad,  Tubs should have been fired, but Tubs program was far better than Chizik in 2011 and 2012,

 

wde

[bigbird 60,368]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

I mean you can’t complain about the resources NS has at Alabama and then point to Gus Malzahn coaching abilities at Auburn as to why it’s comparable to NS at Michigan State.

I'm not exactly sure what your trying to say.  

 

I said you can't compare Gus and Bama Saban. You can, however, compare MSU Saban to Gus. IMO, those are a much closer comparison.

7 minutes ago, DAG said:

Gus Malzahn walked into a roster full top ten. He helped get us that talent, but it is not like he went and coached up Vanderbilt. Michigan State was a horrible program when NS took over. Auburn, even though Gene Chizik left us in a bad position the year before, had a LOT of talent. That was completely a team who quit on their coach .

I agree and stated the same thing.  And while Saban had a weaker roster in a tougher conference at MSU, the rest of the factors are far more similar than any other comparisons.

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

2 minutes ago, AUIH1 said:

Oh,  you don't think we are and why we aren't trying hard enough?

wde

Where in my post did I ever say that? You’re putting Kirby Smart on this pedestal because he “struck lightning in a bottle” last year. He’s in a talent rich state and he learned how to cheat from the best. As far as why we aren’t trying hard enough to cheat? Does it hurt reaching that far? 

[DAG 33,955]

Just now, bigbird said:

That's why I said pretty close. 1st major HC job, 5 year tenure, struggling program, and occurring at  the state's 2nd most popular program.  There will never be exact comparisons.  Also, while AU had some better talent, it was a mess of a program when Gus took over.

No not some better talent . Auburn had top ten talent. Gene Chizik was a good recruiter. I can at least say at. After coming off a NC victory, Auburn had the 5th and 6th greatest recruiting class prior to Gus getting there. I don’t know if Michigan State, in their history has ever had recruiting classes like that. I am not saying Gus is an average coach . He is a solid coach . But come on. He is not on NS level. He is not comparable to NS. We got be real here for a second.

[bigbird 60,368]

1 minute ago, AUIH1 said:

Because of Chizik, not Tubs.   2008 was bad,  Tubs should have been fired, but Tubs program was far better than Chizik in 2011 and 2012,

 

wde

Who said anything about Tubs?  We were talking about when Gus took over.

[DAG 33,955]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

I'm not exactly sure what your trying to say.  

 

I said you can't compare Gus and Bama Saban. You can, however, compare MSU Saban to Gus. IMO, those are a much closer comparison.

I agree and stated the same thing.  And while Saban had a weaker roster in a tougher conference at MSU, the rest of the factors are far more similar than any other comparisons.

How?! That’s my point. Michigan State till this day doesn’t have the resources that AU have. So how do you honestly think you can compare that to what MSU had in 95 to what Gus had in 2013?

That doesn’t make any sense man.

[AUIH1 1,515]

1 minute ago, ClaytonAU said:

Where in my post did I ever say that? You’re putting Kirby Smart on this pedestal because he “struck lightning in a bottle” last year. He’s in a talent rich state and he learned how to cheat from the best. As far as why we aren’t trying hard enough to cheat? Does it hurt reaching that far? 

Are you really saying Smart caught lighning in a bottle last year,  Seriously.?