Gus is an average coach

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

On 4/20/2018 at 12:42 PM, AUIH1 said:

Gus has had one very good year (2013).  Followed by three below average years then one good year (2017) (except for the SECCG failure and the the bowl game failure which trends 2017 down a lot). I am said this before, and I am posting it again, I was on on the Gus Bus full force until Gus allowed UGA to abuse us in 2014. At that point Gus lost my trust as an AU HC,    I want Gus to be a very good coach for AU but I have serious doubts going back to UGA 2014 that he can regain my trust .  Regular season 2017 was a good starting point but Gus followed that up with the SECCG and the bowl game.  I am not a fan of Gus at all. 

wde

[lionheartkc 6,150]

31 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

As for the discussion about which coaches I'd take over Gus, I don't think I could name 5. 

The sad thing is, a large percentage of the coaches that I feel might do a better overall job, both on and off the field, end up embroiled in some sort of scandal. It's VERY hard to find a coach who can compete at a championship level and still represent the university as well as Gus does.  I guess that speaks to the overall state of college football. 

[AU64 10,122]

On 4/21/2018 at 10:43 AM, bigbird said:

.750 against

Miss State =  Sherrill &Croom

Ole Miss = David Cutcliff

Arkansas = Houston Nutt

Alabama = Dubose, Francione, Shula

Auburn = Tuberville

Florida = Zook

...Isn't too impressive. Those names aren't exactly lining the walls at the hall of fame.

 

Yep...those were when the East mostly dominated...

[lionheartkc 6,150]

14 hours ago, DAG said:

That is a valid concern TBH. One that I am waiting on to be resolved. We got to get consistent on offense. Every 1 year out of 3 is not going to cut it against the quality teams.

It's all about depth. We've got to keep recruiting at a high level and then get those guys ready to play early so we always have someone ready to go if we lose our starters. Based on comments coming from various coaches this Spring, I feel like the REALLY get that now. The question is, can we do it?

We're starting to have NFL ready players at all of the key positions... which means we need to have MORE NFL ready players ready to fill in for them. That means we are going to have to evaluate recruits at a high level, win some recruiting battles, and then get them up to speed immediately, not just when they are going to be in the 1 & 2 spots in their position. That kind of thing takes years to build... HOPEFULLY this year is the year that we finally have the pieces in place, at least for the skilled positions.

One thing I've been thinking about is that coaches, across the board, are having to adjust what they do, because the landscape is changing. Kids have different attitudes than they did even 10 years ago. They are being raised to be a lot more "me" focused and a lot less team focused. On top of that, they are getting faster and stronger and that is causing an uptick in injuries. Add to that the continual rule changes, several of which affect specific schemes. They can't just go in and do what they have always done. They have to find new ways to make things happen. That gives and even bigger advantage to the teams who have been stockpiling the top talent.

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The sad thing is, a large percentage of the coaches that I feel might do a better overall job, both on and off the field, end up embroiled in some sort of scandal. It's VERY hard to find a coach who can compete at a championship level and still represent the university as well as Gus does.  I guess that speaks to the overall state of college football. 

Absolutely. I actually almost spelled out how relatively stable I feel like our program is, and just the fact that we can't take that for granted anymore... Of course, stability hasn't been a primary characteristic of Auburn football since cuz was keepin' it down home. 

[DAG 33,979]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

It's all about depth. We've got to keep recruiting at a high level and then get those guys ready to play early so we always have someone ready to go if we lose our starters. Based on comments coming from various coaches this Spring, I feel like the REALLY get that now. The question is, can we do it?

We're starting to have NFL ready players at all of the key positions... which means we need to have MORE NFL ready players ready to fill in for them. That means we are going to have to evaluate recruits at a high level, win some recruiting battles, and then get them up to speed immediately, not just when they are going to be in the 1 & 2 spots in their position. That kind of thing takes years to build... HOPEFULLY this year is the year that we finally have the pieces in place, at least for the skilled positions.

One thing I've been thinking about is that coaches, across the board, are having to adjust what they do, because the landscape is changing. Kids have different attitudes than they did even 10 years ago. They are being raised to be a lot more "me" focused and a lot less team focused. On top of that, they are getting faster and stronger and that is causing an uptick in injuries. Add to that the continual rule changes, several of which affect specific schemes. They can't just go in and do what they have always done. They have to find new ways to make things happen. That gives and even bigger advantage to the teams who have been stockpiling the top talent.

Damn good stuff Lion 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

15 hours ago, DAG said:

That is a valid concern TBH. One that I am waiting on to be resolved. We got to get consistent on offense. Every 1 year out of 3 is not going to cut it against the quality teams.

We also have to start looking at what our offense does against quality opponents.  The UGA game last year was the outlier in how Gus does against good defenses.  We can all talk and discuss how the season totals look but when we are playing Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas, and Mizzou we should be lighting them up.  We have trouble scoring against defenses with a pulse.  Gus has got to do something to get back to calling and designing plays like he used to do as an OC or let Chip do it.  You are not going to line up against equal or better talent and WR screen them to death, gut them up the middle repeatedly, or rely on the long pass play.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

8 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

We also have to start looking at what our offense does against quality opponents.  The UGA game last year was the outlier in how Gus does against good defenses.  We can all talk and discuss how the season totals look but when we are playing Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas, and Mizzou we should be lighting them up.  We have trouble scoring against defenses with a pulse.  Gus has got to do something to get back to calling and designing plays like he used to do as an OC or let Chip do it.  You are not going to line up against equal or better talent and WR screen them to death, gut them up the middle repeatedly, or rely on the long pass play.

You have to consider the Iron Bowl and outlier as well. While we only scored 26, that is more than any other team scored against them in the entire season.

While I don't disagree that we need to expand our playbook and get some of the wrinkles we had back when Gus was OC, for the most part, we've outperformed even against good defenses when playing at full strength. Our failing comes when either a) we're failing to execute and we don't have a back-up plan or b ) when key players are injured and our back-ups aren't ready to plug-and-play.

[keesler 5,924]

29 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

You have to consider the Iron Bowl and outlier as well. While we only scored 26, that is more than any other team scored against them in the entire season.

While I don't disagree that we need to expand our playbook and get some of the wrinkles we had back when Gus was OC, for the most part, we've outperformed even against good defenses when playing at full strength. Our failing comes when either a) we're failing to execute and we don't have a back-up plan or b ) when key players are injured and our back-ups aren't ready to plug-and-play.

I think CGM & Co. learned a valuable lesson and those deficiencies get rectified this season.  Have a solid Plan B, and manage your roster better so that players know what to do when they see the field.  I mean, how many times does it take for a coach & his assistants to learn that a they need the back-ups primed and ready to play?  How many games have to be played for the HC/OC to understand that they need to have a plan when their own game plan gets thwarted?

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

I think CGM & Co. learned a valuable lesson and those deficiencies get rectified this season.  Have a solid Plan B, and manage your roster better so that players know what to do when they see the field.  I mean, how many times does it take for a coach & his assistants to learn that a they need the back-ups primed and ready to play?  How many games have to be played for the HC/OC to understand that they need to have a plan when their own game plan gets thwarted?

 

Yea, the good news is having plans b, c, & d are easy fixes that can be done right away. The bad news is that not every back-up, no matter how good the coaching, is going to be able to fill his predecessor's shoes, so we're just going to have to keep stockpiling recruits until we can plug and play like some of our rivals. Starting with bowl season, it really seems like we shifted focus that way, putting the spotlight on our younger guys and even holding the veterans out some. Hopefully we can find that balance where the veterans are at full speed, but the younger guys are still getting plenty of practice reps.

[keesler 5,924]

8 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Yea, the good news is having plans b, c, & d are easy fixes that can be done right away. The bad news is that not every back-up, no matter how good the coaching, is going to be able to fill his predecessor's shoes, so we're just going to have to keep stockpiling recruits until we can plug and play like some of our rivals. Starting with bowl season, it really seems like we shifted focus that way, putting the spotlight on our younger guys and even holding the veterans out some. Hopefully we can find that balance where the veterans are at full speed, but the younger guys are still getting plenty of practice reps.

+1

I think this falls back into the "trust" issue.  A solid staff will develop those players to the point where they can be "trusted" to execute the game plan.  Now that CGM has a relatively consistent/veteran staff,  he should trust them to do their job and in return he will be able to trust his players to execute. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

17 minutes ago, keesler said:

+1

I think this falls back into the "trust" issue.  A solid staff will develop those players to the point where they can be "trusted" to execute the game plan.  Now that CGM has a relatively consistent/veteran staff,  he should trust them to do their job and in return he will be able to trust his players to execute. 

I think what the staff thinks of it as is "earning playing time" but yea, I get you. The thing we have to keep in mind is, no matter how good these kids were in high school, they might not pan out in college, so we have to not only have quality, but quantity of that quality to get to the point were we are 2-3 deep of guys who really can execute the game plan. I, honestly, don't think we are there yet. Part of that is because of our rivals and the challenges we face recruiting against them, and part of that is that we need to step up our evaluation, especially when it comes to attitude, as that's where we seem to fail most frequently with promising players.

[AUsince72 11,084]

14 hours ago, toddc said:

I believe the OP was just a fishing expedition to see what fish would take the bait, and I’ve been surprised so many got caught and fought hard to stay on this troller’s line! Post didn’t seem to be done in the Auburn spirit of forum decorum!!!

You're correct.

However, chicken excrement was turned into chicken biscuits.

EDIT: ....not that I would eat THOSE biscuits but, you get the point 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

You have to consider the Iron Bowl and outlier as well. While we only scored 26, that is more than any other team scored against them in the entire season.

While I don't disagree that we need to expand our playbook and get some of the wrinkles we had back when Gus was OC, for the most part, we've outperformed even against good defenses when playing at full strength. Our failing comes when either a) we're failing to execute and we don't have a back-up plan or b ) when key players are injured and our back-ups aren't ready to plug-and-play.

Our losses against good teams

2017
Clemson we scored   6
UGA we scored           7

2016
Clemson  13
Texas A&M  16
UGA                7
Bama             12
Oklahoma       19

2015
Miss State     9
Ole Miss         19
UGA                 13
Bama               13

2014
Miss State   23
UGA                 7

 

See a pattern here.  When we play any type of team with a defense we more often than not wet the bed.  In the above games that we lost due to the lack of offense  we averaged 12.6 points per game.  That has to change with Gus.

[AUsince72 11,084]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Contrary to what the caped crusaders think, there are a lot of this who share this honest and balanced assessment. Well said. 

I have an emerging theory that Gus has to make a mistake twice before he learns it, whereas it might only take another guy once; on the other hand, though, he seems to have several innate talents that most coaches won't- maybe can't- ever learn.  

As for the discussion about which coaches I'd take over Gus, I don't think I could name 5. 

I could.

 

 

....but they're almost all retired or dead.

[AU64 10,122]

Wait a minute...how about a post of our offense against good teams....that list above is just cherry picking ;the facts to support your point....nobody scores a bunch of points against good defenses....which is why the defenses are called "good defenses". 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, NorthGATiger said:

Our losses against good teams

2017
Clemson we scored   6
UGA we scored           7

2016
Clemson  13
Texas A&M  16
UGA                7
Bama             12
Oklahoma       19

2015
Miss State     9
Ole Miss         19
UGA                 13
Bama               13

2014
Miss State   23
UGA                 7

 

See a pattern here.  When we play any type of team with a defense we more often than not wet the bed.  In the above games that we lost due to the lack of offense  we averaged 12.6 points per game.  That has to change with Gus.

The pattern is irrelevant when you are looking at a scoreboard and nothing else. You have to look at the big picture. Note that the sentence you highlighted says "when playing at full strength" Rough percentage in my head, 75-80% of those games we had key players on the bench and no one ready to replace them, which is point 2 of my statement. The problem there is not lack of offense, the problem is lack of depth. 

Incidentally, 2 of the other games on that list were lack of a back-up plan (and in the case of Clemson 2016 any plan at all) and both of those involved breaking in a new QB and solidifying new positions on the O-Line. I'm hoping with Hand tweeting in his cowboy boots now that we won't have that O-Line issue anymore.

Oh... and it's ridiculous to include the SEC Championship game against Georgia when we hung 40 on the same defense 3-weeks before. That alone should tell you there was more to it than a "lack of offense".

[AUsince72 11,084]

3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Wait a minute...how about a post of our offense against good teams....that list above is just cherry picking ;the facts to support your point....nobody scores a bunch of points against good defenses....which is why the defenses are called "good defenses". 

Cherry picked games cause Auburn to have losses that keep them from championships (or even bowl victories).

I know a lot of posters state total season stats as a point of support but in the end total season Wins & Losses are where polls, bowls & championships are measured.

The committees and pollsters tend to cherry pick those.

[McLoofus 35,182]

 

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Oh... and it's ridiculous to include the SEC Championship game against Georgia when we hung 40 on the same defense 3-weeks before. That alone should tell you there was more to it than a "lack of offense".

Well, when they tried something different and we didn't...

(The offense was working pretty well until we kept having drive-killing turnovers and then we decided to play with 50% of a running back instead of the very good 100% of one watching from the expensive seats. Which goes to other points you made in the thread.)

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, AUsince72 said:

Cherry picked games cause Auburn to have losses that keep them from championships (or even bowl victories).

I know a lot of posters state total season stats as a point of support but in the end total season Wins & Losses are where polls, bowls & championships are measured.

The committees and pollsters tend to cherry pick those.

yes but the point being made was about the offense...not the wins or losses.   so what's the deal with number of points.....I hated to lose some games when we scored in the 30s or 40s for gosh sakes. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

 

Well, when they tried something different and we didn't...

(The offense was working pretty well until we kept having drive-killing turnovers and then we decided to play with 50% of a running back instead of the very good 100% of one watching from the expensive seats. Which goes to other points you made in the thread.)

Yup... the SEC Championship game was a prime example of points a and b happening in the same game. Of course, you have to also give "credit" to Georgia for the blatant cheap shots on our recovering running back to insure he wouldn't be healthy enough to make a difference.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The pattern is irrelevant when you are looking at a scoreboard and nothing else. You have to look at the big picture. Note that the sentence you highlighted says "when playing at full strength" Rough percentage in my head, 75-80% of those games we had key players on the bench and no one ready to replace them, which is point 2 of my statement. The problem there is not lack of offense, the problem is lack of depth. 

Incidentally, 2 of the other games on that list were lack of a back-up plan (and in the case of Clemson 2016 any plan at all) and both of those involved breaking in a new QB and solidifying new positions on the O-Line. I'm hoping with Hand tweeting in his cowboy boots now that we won't have that O-Line issue anymore.

Oh... and it's ridiculous to include the SEC Championship game against Georgia when we hung 40 on the same defense 3-weeks before. That alone should tell you there was more to it than a "lack of offense".

Every team has new starters to break in and injuries.  If you can't look at that list of losses and realize why we lost then I don't know what to say.  I have given Gus credit for the good things he has done but if you dare speak of his deficiencies people come out of the woodwork with every excuse in the book.  UGA had to bring in an unexperienced player at QB last year that was a freshman.  Bama had to bring in a different QB in the Championship game.  Good coaches don't put the whole team on one star players shoulders.  So why in your mind did we only score 7 against UGA in the SECCG when we scored 40 before?  Are you telling me that Auburn only scored 33 more points the first time because KJ was playing?  Auburn scored 7 points the 2nd time because Kirby gameplanned to fix their issues and gameplanned to stop what was working for Auburn in game 1.  Gus just gameplanned the same as before with no new input and decided his best chance of winning was playing an injured player.

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Yup... the SEC Championship game was a prime example of points a and b happening in the same game. Of course, you have to also give "credit" to Georgia for the blatant cheap shots on our recovering running back to insure he wouldn't be healthy enough to make a difference.

Nobody wants to talk much about that fumble near the goal line that changed the entire momentum of the game.....but ..the point above was a big factor too. ,,though I'm not sure where coaching came into either one of those incidents.....JMO 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Yup... the SEC Championship game was a prime example of points a and b happening in the same game. Of course, you have to also give "credit" to Georgia for the blatant cheap shots on our recovering running back to insure he wouldn't be healthy enough to make a difference.

If it's not going to get called then we should be doing it, too. Especially against that sorry lot. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

yes but the point being made was about the offense...not the wins or losses.   so what's the deal with number of points.....I hated to lose some games when we scored in the 30s or 40s for gosh sakes. 

116 total yards of offense against Clemson in one of the most high profile early season matchups in the country. 11 sacks surrendered. We somehow did worse against them than we did with the CoxCat the season before. Absolutely breathtaking ineptitude. In a very, very big game. 

We've scored 13 points or less 8 times in the last 3 seasons.