Trump Nukes Iran Treaty

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Pres. Trump has pulled the U.S. out of the Iran Treaty, probably the worst treaty in our history, and reimposed severe sanctions. Great move IMHO and he gave a great speech in announcing his decision.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/08/trump-vows-to-withdraw-from-iran-nuclear-agreement-calls-pact-defective-at-its-core.html

[homersapien 11,352]

Nothing good will come of this.  Nothing.

[Mikey 16,545]

This "treaty" had the stipulation that inspectors who would verify compliance had to give some days notice before showing up. I think it was 30 days but not certain about that. That's no verification at all. If an inspector must give extended notice there's no valid inspection. Nothing else needs to be said about this stinker of an agreement. It should never have been signed to begin with. Good on Trump!

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

I fail to see what we gain by pulling out of this treaty.

[homersapien 11,352]

43 minutes ago, Mikey said:

This "treaty" had the stipulation that inspectors who would verify compliance had to give some days notice before showing up. I think it was 30 days but not certain about that. That's no verification at all. If an inspector must give extended notice there's no valid inspection. Nothing else needs to be said about this stinker of an agreement. It should never have been signed to begin with. Good on Trump!

General Mattis disagrees:

Asked at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing whether the U.S. should stay in the Iran deal, Mattis would not give his opinion. He later said that the deal’s provisions allow “pretty robust” oversight of what Iran is doing.

“I've read it now three times … and I will say that it is written almost with an assumption that Iran would try to cheat,” he told lawmakers.

“So the verification, what is in there, is actually pretty robust as far as our intrusive ability” for the International Atomic Energy Agency to check on whether Iran is complying."

[HVAU 673]

I wonder at Israel's airstrike today.  The timing seems to be very ill advised.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

I'm in 'wait and see' mode on this one.  I'm not convinced it's a bad decision.  I've read various things that seemed to show it was incremental progress, but my default switch is to mistrust Iran. And the original agreement was pretty weak.

It could blow up in his face or it could end up resulting in a better deal with stricter conditions.

[Mikey 16,545]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

I fail to see what we gain by pulling out of this treaty.

We get out of what was, according to many observers, a horrible, one-sided agreement.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

9 minutes ago, Mikey said:

We get out of what was, according to many observers, a horrible, one-sided agreement.

And many other observers saw it as an ability for us to slowly quell the threat of Iran.  Again, what do we gain by moving away from any dialogue with Iran here, especially when our top allies (outside of Israel) supported the treaty?

[Mikey 16,545]

10 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

And many other observers saw it as an ability for us to slowly quell the threat of Iran.  Again, what do we gain by moving away from any dialogue with Iran here, especially when our top allies (outside of Israel) supported the treaty?

Again, we get out of a bad agreement. If "slowly quell" means guarantee Iran nuclear weapons in ten years, then I think the U.S. needed to get out of it. As for those allies, they should look around their own countries and address their own messes.

[DKW 86 7,410]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm in 'wait and see' mode on this one.  I'm not convinced it's a bad decision.  I've read various things that seemed to show it was incremental progress, but my default switch is to mistrust Iran. And the original agreement was pretty weak.

It could blow up in his face or it could end up resulting in a better deal with stricter conditions.

Trump seems to be blind squirreling into the End of the Korean War. Maybe he blind squirrels into something good here?

[AUFAN78 3,889]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm in 'wait and see' mode on this one.  I'm not convinced it's a bad decision.  I've read various things that seemed to show it was incremental progress, but my default switch is to mistrust Iran. And the original agreement was pretty weak.

It could blow up in his face or it could end up resulting in a better deal with stricter conditions.

Ditto

[kevon67 2,368]

Can we get our money back?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

46 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Again, we get out of a bad agreement. If "slowly quell" means guarantee Iran nuclear weapons in ten years, then I think the U.S. needed to get out of it.

There's no evidence of guaranteeing Iran nuclear weapons at all.  This is a hyperbolic statement.

48 minutes ago, Mikey said:

As for those allies, they should look around their own countries and address their own messes.

You think those countries don't say the same about us?  Just not how the world works big guy.

[homersapien 11,352]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm in 'wait and see' mode on this one.  I'm not convinced it's a bad decision.  I've read various things that seemed to show it was incremental progress, but my default switch is to mistrust Iran. And the original agreement was pretty weak.

It could blow up in his face or it could end up resulting in a better deal with stricter conditions.

As if we should trust them?   As if they should trust us?  

This is not just a tactical error (which it is), it is a strategic error.  Even a cultural one.  We are generations away before trust will ever come to play.  Considering our history, it may never.  That goes for our entire involvement in the Middle East.

I am reading this book on the subject:  ttps://www.iwastoldtocomealone.com/

I highly recommend it.   Like they say, "know your enemy".

 

[homersapien 11,352]

3 hours ago, Mikey said:

We get out of what was, according to many observers, a horrible, one-sided agreement.

As if - even if true - that is the worst option. 

[Mid Atlantic Tiger 150]

3 hours ago, Mikey said:

Again, we get out of a bad agreement. If "slowly quell" means guarantee Iran nuclear weapons in ten years, then I think the U.S. needed to get out of it. As for those allies, they should look around their own countries and address their own messes.

I have to ask, just who says it's a bad deal?  Even Republicans here in Virginia and in DC do not agree with you.  Most Military I have spoken with think it's a foolish move motivated by his campaign promise and that Israel has him by the balls.

[Mikey 16,545]

16 minutes ago, Mid Atlantic Tiger said:

I have to ask, just who says it's a bad deal? 

 I say it's a bad deal. No surprise, un announced inspections of a nation everyone says is not trustworthy is a bad deal. That's not even worthy of discussion.

[Mid Atlantic Tiger 150]

1 minute ago, Mikey said:

 I say it's a bad deal. No surprise, un announced inspections of a nation everyone says is not trustworthy is a bad deal. That's not even worthy of discussion.

Gotcha.  That's your opinion, but I trust it about as much as I trust any Southern Baptist preacher...and I don't trust Cult Leaders.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 minutes ago, Mikey said:

 I say it's a bad deal. No surprise, un announced inspections of a nation everyone says is not trustworthy is a bad deal. That's not even worthy of discussion.

So another honest question.  Have you read it?  And what makes your opinion more qualified than the military brass cited above?

[Mikey 16,545]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

So another honest question.  Have you read it?  And what makes your opinion more qualified than the military brass cited above?

He didn't ask for qualifications. He asked who says it's a bad deal. I do, for reasons I've already stated.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Obviously some here haven't read any of the secret material Israel  obtained about what Iran has been doing. Otherwise I'm blown away tat anybody would disagree with Trump's decision regardless of politics. I can't judge people's heart but is seems some hate Trump more than they care about what's good for our country.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

48 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Obviously some here haven't read any of the secret material Israel  obtained about what Iran has been doing. Otherwise I'm blown away tat anybody would disagree with Trump's decision regardless of politics. I can't judge people's heart but is seems some hate Trump more than they care about what's good for our country.

It might be helpful to link to whatever you're talking about.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

48 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Obviously some here haven't read any of the secret material Israel  obtained about what Iran has been doing. Otherwise I'm blown away tat anybody would disagree with Trump's decision regardless of politics. I can't judge people's heart but is seems some hate Trump more than they care about what's good for our country.

Or some of us don't completely trust Nentanyahu's motives and see this as a much more complex issue than you want to make it seem.

[Mid Atlantic Tiger 150]

8 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Obviously some here haven't read any of the secret material Israel  obtained about what Iran has been doing. Otherwise I'm blown away tat anybody would disagree with Trump's decision regardless of politics. I can't judge people's heart but is seems some hate Trump more than they care about what's good for our country.

And you just believe them blindly?  The WORLD'S #1 abuser of Human Rights?  The Top Apartheid State.  You don't think that those buggers would hood wink you at all.  Their word cannot ever be disputed.

Yeah, and I have a bridge to sell you...