NFL - players will be fined for kneeling

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

37 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I get the feeling many here forget why Trump was elected. The topic has been researched, printed, discussed, proven, etc. Yet some just don't get it. Sorry, but I can only laugh at the ignorance. Carry on.

Has it occurred to you that the “many” you speak of are merely speaking out against the things that got Trump elected- racism, sexism, xenophobia? 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

On 6/6/2018 at 12:11 PM, TitanTiger said:

Even Ben Shapiro is calling out Trump for his lying on this subject:

 

I agree that Trump should stop lying about it. He should admit that they just don't want to come and leave it at that. Everyone know that most pro athletes hate Trump so there's no point in him lying and coming up with excuses to "disinvite" teams.

I'd be okay if they just ended the practice of sports teams being honored at the White House altogether.  All it's become now is a way for players to make political statements by not going. If so many don't want to go then just don't do it anymore. They can go back to the White House when a Democrat is president again. That's really all they care about anyway is getting to meet their political idols like The Great One. 

If they don't want to go that's fine but the nonsense they spout about "we want a dialogue about issues" rings a little hollow to me when they turn down an invite to the White House. Instead of going face to face with Trump and letting him know how they feel by discussing the issues they care so passionately about but instead they get into a mud slinging contest with Trump and then act like they're all about discussing the issues. They should just admit they only want a one sided conversation. They obviously don't want to hear from opposing views, especially Trump.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

36 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

Has it occurred to you that the “many” you speak of are merely speaking out against the things that got Trump elected- racism, sexism, xenophobia? 

If that would have been reasons for him getting the nomination I could understand your point. I've yet to meet a Trump supporter who voted for those reasons. I doubt you have either. But CNN would be proud of your stance. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

12 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

If that would have been reasons for him getting the nomination I could understand your point. I've yet to meet a Trump supporter who voted for those reasons. I doubt you have either. But CNN would be proud of your stance. 

When you know nothing about a person’s life outside of what they post it’s easy to make false assumptions. I live in a racist community. So, yes I have. They just don’t admit that’s the reason. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

28 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

I agree that Trump should stop lying about it. He should admit that they just don't want to come and leave it at that. Everyone know that most pro athletes hate Trump so there's no point in him lying and coming up with excuses to "disinvite" teams.

I'd be okay if they just ended the practice of sports teams being honored at the White House altogether.  All it's become now is a way for players to make political statements by not going. If so many don't want to go then just don't do it anymore. They can go back to the White House when a Democrat is president again. That's really all they care about anyway is getting to meet their political idols like The Great One. 

If they don't want to go that's fine but the nonsense they spout about "we want a dialogue about issues" rings a little hollow to me when they turn down an invite to the White House. Instead of going face to face with Trump and letting him know how they feel by discussing the issues they care so passionately about but instead they get into a mud slinging contest with Trump and then act like they're all about discussing the issues. They should just admit they only want a one sided conversation. They obviously don't want to hear from opposing views, especially Trump.

I’m curious, would you think a person that called you a son of a bitch that should be fired or that you shouldn’t even be in the country would be willing to listen and negotiate with you? 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

2 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I get the feeling many here forget why Trump was elected. The topic has been researched, printed, discussed, proven, etc. Yet some just don't get it. Sorry, but I can only laugh at the ignorance. Carry on.

Right on. Just enjoy their whining. It has a long way to go. They apparently have no clue the importance of some things going on as we speak. They only have one gear.......hate. Just sit back and enjoy their misery.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

19 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

When you know nothing about a person’s life outside of what they post it’s easy to make false assumptions. I live in a racist community. So, yes I have. They just don’t admit that’s the reason. 

So they have not admitted to these fallacies, you just assumed them right?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I'm holding him accountable for his campaign promises which he has done a good job of keeping so far.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

29 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Right on. Just enjoy their whining. It has a long way to go. They apparently have no clue the importance of some things going on as we speak. They only have one gear.......hate. Just sit back and enjoy their misery.

I don't enjoy the whining. I do comprehend the idiocy.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

Just now, GiveEmElle said:

I’m curious, would you think a person that called you a son of a bitch that should be fired or that you shouldn’t even be in the country would be willing to listen and negotiate with you? 

If they're willing to at least talk and allow me to talk about my views then sure. I don't expect to change people's minds or negotiate with those I know are adamantly opposed to my views. If they invite me to their house to discuss issues and are at least willing to listen to what I have to say then I would  go. I wouldn't expect much to change or for them to agree with me but  I'd at least want to clear the air and know exactly where both parties are on an issue and if there was anything that could be agreed upon.

Imo, by not talking or interacting with others who strongly disagree only fosters divisiveness and hate on both sides . It desensitizes people by allowing them to write others off as not mattering and won't allow for any kind of different opinion to be considered. 

Trump has allowed Steve Harvey, Martin Luther King III, Kanye West, etc...... to come to the White House and talk to him about issues they're concerned with. He's shown he's more than willing to allow a conversation to happen if they really want one. Whether he alters his views or not is a different story.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

4 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I'm holding him accountable for his campaign promises which he has done a good job of keeping so far.

Not to derail a thread, but congrats on the 17K haul. Obviously, I need a stock tip! 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

This is why they kneel. 

 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

11 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

If they're willing to at least talk and allow me to talk about my views then sure. I don't expect to change people's minds or negotiate with those I know are adamantly opposed to my views. If they invite me to their house to discuss issues and are at least willing to listen to what I have to say then I would  go. I wouldn't expect much to change or for them to agree with me but  I'd at least want to clear the air and know exactly where both parties are on an issue and if there was anything that could be agreed upon.

Imo, by not talking or interacting with others who strongly disagree only fosters divisiveness and hate on both sides . It desensitizes people by allowing them to write others off as not mattering and won't allow for any kind of different opinion to be considered. 

Trump has allowed Steve Harvey, Martin Luther King III, Kanye West, etc...... to come to the White House and talk to him about issues they're concerned with. He's shown he's more than willing to allow a conversation to happen if they really want one. Whether he alters his views or not is a different story.

They aren’t invited to discuss issues. They are invited to this WH to stroke the ego of the POTUS, and that became clear when he refused to host the handful of players who wanted to go. 

Yes, Trump has had people over. Like the MSDHS victims and families. He told them he’d stand against the NRA then a few days later assured the NRA he was behind them. Trump hears but does not listen.

[kevon67 2,368]

48 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

I’m curious, would you think a person that called you a son of a bitch that should be fired or that you shouldn’t even be in the country would be willing to listen and negotiate with you? 

My High School Football coach called me a son of a bitch on more than 1 occasion......Never entered my mind he should be fired.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

1 minute ago, kevon67 said:

My High School Football coach called me a son of a bitch on more than 1 occasion......Never entered my mind he should be fired.

You misread. 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

5 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

They aren’t invited to discuss issues. They are invited to this WH to stroke the ego of the POTUS, and that became clear when he refused to host the handful of players who wanted to go. 

Yes, Trump has had people over. Like the MSDHS victims and families. He told them he’d stand against the NRA then a few days later assured the NRA he was behind them. Trump hears but does not listen.

That's true they're not invited to discuss issues but that still doesn't mean they can't ask to talk to the president about it. They could have said they'd go to the White House on the condition that he meet with them to discuss the issues they want to talk about. I seriously doubt they did that or any other pro sports team is going to do that. Like you said though they don't want to stroke his ego by attending, so even meeting with him was probably out of the question.

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 hours ago, kevon67 said:

My High School Football coach called me a son of a bitch on more than 1 occasion......Never entered my mind he should be fired.

Other than the words "son of a bitch" and the fact that you were also a football player, there is absolutely no correlation between the two situations whatsoever. 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

This is why they kneel. 

It's almost like they want America to be great again. 

[TitanTiger 20,469]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

It's almost like they want America to be great again. 

I've never understood the complete unwillingness to even *consider* that they might have a point and instead of losing one's mind over it, seek to sit down and hear them out on what would make them want to kneel.  I'm just incomprehensible to me.

I mean, you can even listen to them, hear them out and still disagree.  But the difference is, your sincere willingness to take their concerns seriously could lead to some kind of middle ground where they'd be willing to alter their protest a bit to not offend you.  

Hell, Kaepernick changed the way he was protesting for this very reason.  Someone approached him about just sitting on the bench and looking disinterested.  I think it might have been a vet or a police officer.  And through that conversation, he decided that a better thing to do would be to kneel and have a more respectful disposition during it.  Not just slouching on the bench, but purposefully kneeling and paying attention.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

11 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

That's true they're not invited to discuss issues but that still doesn't mean they can't ask to talk to the president about it. They could have said they'd go to the White House on the condition that he meet with them to discuss the issues they want to talk about. I seriously doubt they did that or any other pro sports team is going to do that. Like you said though they don't want to stroke his ego by attending, so even meeting with him was probably out of the question.

So you honestly think that Trump would concede and have a sit down with black athletes over police brutality when the fact is that he called those players sons of bitches, called for their firing, called for police brutality and uses all of that rhetoric to rile his base at his ego stroking rallies? Really? Trump is the freaking leader of the country, if he wanted a sit down with CK he could have it. Don’t put this on the athletes. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I've never understood the complete unwillingness to even *consider* that they might have a point and instead of losing one's mind over it, seek to sit down and hear them out on what would make them want to kneel.  I'm just incomprehensible to me.

I mean, you can even listen to them, hear them out and still disagree.  But the difference is, your sincere willingness to take their concerns seriously could lead to some kind of middle ground where they'd be willing to alter their protest a bit to not offend you.  

Hell, Kaepernick changed the way he was protesting for this very reason.  Someone approached him about just sitting on the bench and looking disinterested.  I think it might have been a vet or a police officer.  And through that conversation, he decided that a better thing to do would be to kneel and have a more respectful disposition during it.  Not just slouching on the bench, but purposefully kneeling and paying attention.

It was a vet and that's exactly how it happened according to everything I've seen.

And you make such an important point. I personally have been dismissive of numerous groups of people over the course of my life until I, you know, actually met some and talked to them. I even treat clients in my various jobs differently after I've actually met them, as they do me. 

It's all fear and ignorance until it's not. 

[TitanTiger 20,469]

1 minute ago, GiveEmElle said:

So you honestly think that Trump would concede and have a sit down with black athletes over police brutality when the fact is that he called those players sons of bitches, called for their firing, called for police brutality and uses all of that rhetoric to rile his base at his ego stroking rallies? Really? Trump is the freaking leader of the country, if he wanted a sit down with CK he could have it. Don’t put this on the athletes. 

The only thing I would say is, I think Auburnfan91's idea has some merit and would be worth a try.  Put that our there as a demand but also be "wise as serpents and innocent as doves" in your approach.  Be on guard for anything in the negotiations that allow for him to grandstand and try to imply your support for him or his policies in exchange for this meeting.  But it would be worth trying and maybe if the right people talked to him privately, he would listen.

If not, then the public can know that you were willing to talk reasonably and he wasn't and let them decide.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

16 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

The only thing I would say is, I think Auburnfan91's idea has some merit and would be worth a try.  Put that our there as a demand but also be "wise as serpents and innocent as doves" in your approach.  Be on guard for anything in the negotiations that allow for him to grandstand and try to imply your support for him or his policies in exchange for this meeting.  But it would be worth trying and maybe if the right people talked to him privately, he would listen.

If not, then the public can know that you were willing to talk reasonably and he wasn't and let them decide.

Peter Alexander posed the question of a round table with POTUS and athletes. Does this sound like this WH is willing to try? It sounds like deflection to me. 

https://www.facebook.com/msnbc/videos/2098301886932719/

[homersapien 11,352]

15 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I get the feeling many here forget why Trump was elected. The topic has been researched, printed, discussed, proven, etc. Yet some just don't get it. Sorry, but I can only laugh at the ignorance. Carry on.

Irony.

He got elected by appealing to racist, xenophobic "victims",  with some help from Russia.  

 

[homersapien 11,352]

17 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, when you have such a large percentage of the GOP voter base giving him a free pass on practically anything he does - to the point where in states like Alabama almost every elected office has GOP candidates falling all over each other to see who can suck up and pledge their undying devotion to him more - Congressional Republicans probably don't feel like they can hold him accountable.  His voters don't want him held accountable.  They all just dismiss it as "fake news" and the "librul media."

Ditto for South Carolina.