NFL - players will be fined for kneeling

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

5 hours ago, homersapien said:

I am not "telling you" anything.  (Well except that the idea that "athletes, schools and community groups are finding the US flag offensive" is absurd.)

I am asking what all this has to do with NFL players protesting unequal treatment of black citizens?

My comments were originally on owners rights to set practice standards that impacted their profit. IE... don't fly confederate flag stick on your truck in our parking lot = fired. Yet now if owner says don't protest on my time its wrong, despite it hurting their product. Hypocrisy.

You then asked if I knew the difference between the two flags.

 

http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/10/23/x-incidents-prove-u-s-flag-greater-symbol-oppression-confederate-flag/

Quote

Asked to explain, Abdul-Rauf, then with the Denver Nuggets, called the American flag a “symbol of oppression, of tyranny”.

http://indianexpress.com/article/sports/sport-others/american-flag-a-symbol-of-oppression-of-tyranny-colin-kaepernick-us-barack-obama-3024853/

Quote

The American flag is under attack at another college campus after a student government voted to restrict its presence.

The University of California-Davis' student senate voted to allow the Stars & Stripes to be removed from its meetings, "Fox & Friends" reported.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/04/16/american-flag-removed-college-campus-meetings-university-california-davis-senate-vote

School in Tenn

Quote

“I’d like to appreciate everyone who has been removing the flags from the Main Green,” the original post said. “As much as I know that these flags are there to represent Veterans Day, when I look at them, all I feel is overwhelming nausea, and all I see is a symbol of the oppressing white nationalism that has jeopardized myself and so many others at Brown and abroad.”

https://www.watchdog.org/issues/education/american-flags-patriotism-now-triggering-college-students/article_5f1afe1a-b7c7-5729-8aaa-6e6ea27f0f20.html

And you can go on if look.

[homersapien 11,366]

That's one of the problems with the internet.  One can make absurd generalized statements, then find isolated examples to justify them.

[alexava 6,973]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's one of the problems with the internet.  One can make absurd generalized statements, then find isolated examples to justify them.

Trumpism 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 hour ago, alexava said:

Trumpism 

alexvaism?

[augolf1716 21,108]

Shugism

 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

I am not "telling you" anything.  (Well except that the idea that "athletes, schools and community groups are finding the US flag offensive" is absurd.)

I am asking what all this has to do with NFL players protesting unequal treatment of black citizens?

But the athletes, specifically Colin Kaepernick who started the new kneeling movement in pro sports, aren't just doing it because of the treatment of black citizens. They view the flag as oppressive also because it represents the country that is oppressing them. 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

5 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's one of the problems with the internet.  One can make absurd generalized statements, then find isolated examples to justify them.

lol ................. 

Yeah, an isolated example, like Colin Kaepernick's own words about kneeling:

Quote

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.

“The National Anthem is and always will be a special part of the pre-game ceremony. It is an opportunity to honor our country and reflect on the great liberties we are afforded as its citizens. In respecting such American principles as freedom of religion and freedom of expression, we recognize the right of an individual to choose and participate, or not, in our celebration of the national anthem.”

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/colin-kaepernick-49ers-national-anthem-sit-explains

 

Notice that Kaepernick actually separated the National Anthem from the flag. He thinks the National Anthem is about honoring the country. But the flag represents the U.S.'s oppression of black people and people of color.

[alexava 6,973]

21 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

lol ................. 

Yeah, an isolated example, like Colin Kaepernick's own words about kneeling:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/colin-kaepernick-49ers-national-anthem-sit-explains

 

Notice that Kaepernick actually separated the National Anthem from the flag. He thinks the National Anthem is about honoring the country. But the flag represents the U.S.'s oppression of black people and people of color.

And your president separated soldiers who got caught vs those who didn’t as to how he views them and people still kiss his ass like he’s a ******* Medal of Honor recipient. 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

On 5/25/2018 at 2:55 PM, TitanTiger said:

I would have no problem with this. Remember when I played for a team that practiced on a military base. Everyday around 5:30 we stopped what we were doing, faced the north (was direction of the flag from the practice fields) and waited for the flag to be taken down. Then resumed practice.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

9 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's one of the problems with the internet.  One can make absurd generalized statements, then find isolated examples to justify them.

Lol why is the internet always wrong and people absurd until you start posting evidence you pulled from the internet? Or the evidence by someone else, pulled from the internet goes in your favor? Then its immaculate.

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

I personally hate the players using the National Anthem and doing it in a way that I feel is disrespectful to the Anthem as a means of making a point. My Dad served 33 years in the US Navy World War II, Kora, Vietnam he would have been appalled by their actions as I am but like me he would defend their right to do it as that is one of the things he fought for in his service to our country.

Whether you agree or disagree with what the players are protesting I believe it hurts their own argument by using the National Anthem. Before the game come out and kneel as a Group at Half-Time before leaving the field kneel as a group, walk to 50 yard line and kneel any of these type actions would make the same point and would not cause many people who might agree with them to turn against them and what they are protesting.

I want to give the players the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to improve the country and change some things that need changing but they really need to find a better, less hurtful more effective way to do it.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I personally hate the players using the National Anthem and doing it in a way that I feel is disrespectful to the Anthem as a means of making a point. My Dad served 33 years in the US Navy World War II, Kora, Vietnam he would have been appalled by their actions as I am but like me he would defend their right to do it as that is one of the things he fought for in his service to our country.

Whether you agree or disagree with what the players are protesting I believe it hurts their own argument by using the National Anthem. Before the game come out and kneel as a Group at Half-Time before leaving the field kneel as a group, walk to 50 yard line and kneel any of these type actions would make the same point and would not cause many people who might agree with them to turn against them and what they are protesting.

I want to give the players the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to improve the country and change some things that need changing but they really need to find a better, less hurtful more effective way to do it.

If they did something inoffensive and forgettable, then they wouldn't be making much of a statement. People would just say, "Oh, that's nice", and we Liberals would just pass useless memes and gifs around our little carefully curated social media echo chambers, and a lot of conservatives would only be mildly annoyed further by the behavior of brown people, and there would be no conversation whatsoever. 

 

[homersapien 11,366]

15 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

lol ................. 

Yeah, an isolated example, like Colin Kaepernick's own words about kneeling:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/colin-kaepernick-49ers-national-anthem-sit-explains

 

Notice that Kaepernick actually separated the National Anthem from the flag. He thinks the National Anthem is about honoring the country. But the flag represents the U.S.'s oppression of black people and people of color.

Well, I guess you got me.  That proves "athletes, schools, and community groups are now finding the current and past US flags offensive."  

[homersapien 11,366]

10 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Lol why is the internet always wrong and people absurd until you start posting evidence you pulled from the internet? Or the evidence by someone else, pulled from the internet goes in your favor? Then its immaculate.

That's just not true.  You seem to be consistent in making thoughtless, outrageous, generalized statements.  I particularly liked the one about how white men are under attack. 

How did that go again?

I think you are still tender over that.

 

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

46 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

If they did something inoffensive and forgettable, then they wouldn't be making much of a statement. People would just say, "Oh, that's nice", and we Liberals would just pass useless memes and gifs around our little carefully curated social media echo chambers, and a lot of conservatives would only be mildly annoyed further by the behavior of brown people, and there would be no conversation whatsoever. 

 

I never said it had to be inoffensive. As an example at half time players from both team walking to 50 Yard Line and doing Black Power Salute with a Black Glove on would definitively get peoples attention. That is just one example of a way to make a statement that people would see and talk about. By the way loving the flag and the National Anthem has nothing to do with being a conservative or a liberal.

I am a conservative on most issues but I have never been annoyed by the behavior of people of color. My wife is Hispanic and my kids would qualify as people of color. I grew up in an era where segregation was acceptable in many parts of the country it was wrong then as is all different forms of prejudice we see here and around the world. I know for a fact it still exists in this country but I also know that we have made great strides and I hope we continue to make more strides.

I have friends and neighbors from Nigeria, Kenya, Chad, and through my wife family members from throughout Central America they all see the prejudice here but in every case they tell me that compared to the different prejudices in their countries ours is preferred.  

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

33 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I never said it had to be inoffensive. As an example at half time players from both team walking to 50 Yard Line and doing Black Power Salute with a Black Glove on would definitively get peoples attention. That is just one example of a way to make a statement that people would see and talk about. By the way loving the flag and the National Anthem has nothing to do with being a conservative or a liberal.

I am a conservative on most issues but I have never been annoyed by the behavior of people of color. My wife is Hispanic and my kids would qualify as people of color. I grew up in an era where segregation was acceptable in many parts of the country it was wrong then as is all different forms of prejudice we see here and around the world. I know for a fact it still exists in this country but I also know that we have made great strides and I hope we continue to make more strides.

I have friends and neighbors from Nigeria, Kenya, Chad, and through my wife family members from throughout Central America they all see the prejudice here but in every case they tell me that compared to the different prejudices in their countries ours is preferred.  

First, I would never assume your political leanings and especially was not under the impression that you are racist. In fact, I've always assumed you to be a very decent and thoughtful person who doesn't suffer BS. Furthermore, I don't disrespect conservatives just for being conservatives nor do I consider them all or even most of them racists. I want you to know that I hold you specifically- based merely off what little I know of you from here- and many conservatives in general in high regard. And I'm grateful to know you a little better from your post!

However, the people whose thoughts and behavior this movement is targeting tend to be both conservative and racist. 

Perhaps there's an important distinction between "less hurtful" and "inoffensive", so I apologize if I misunderstood. 

And you are right, of course, that loving the flag and the National Anthem isn't a partisan issue. In fact, I guarantee you that many of the players kneeling very much do love the flag and the National Anthem, and both factor into the sacrifice they make by kneeling. The kneeling is, in fact, a function of deep patriotism in the case of many of those guys. They stand to lose more personally than they stand to gain. For the most part, they are not the guys who generally have to fear unearned physical violence at the hands of police officers. Yet they risk endorsements, fines, and quite possibly- as Colin K. might be in the process of proving- their careers. They do this because they think they can make the country better. That's more than a lot of people complaining about it can say. (And I have no idea what anyone here does in their free time, so that was absolutely not a shot at anyone reading this.)

The orange draft dodger currently sullying the White House and this nation's good name campaigned on the premise that America isn't good enough. A LOT of idiots ran around with ridiculous red signs on their heads advertising it. I don't see much of a difference between that and these players choosing to demonstrate their understanding of the significance of the flag and the anthem by choosing that moment to kneel. Not sit on the bench, or talk on their phones, or wear stupid and carelessly disrespectful shorts and other clothing that violates protocol on Independence Day, or to otherwise passively disrespect and disregard the flag and the anthem. But to kneel. 

 

 

 

 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

Well, I guess you got me.  That proves "athletes, schools, and community groups are now finding the current and past US flags offensive."  

You could always go get us some stuff from Quora again and prove the point wrong.

 

 

 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's just not true.  You seem to be consistent in making thoughtless, outrageous, generalized statements.  I particularly liked the one about how white men are under attack. 

How did that go again?

I think you are still tender over that.

 

I remember that one, went something like:

Quote

A group of American University students burned U.S. flags on the D.C. campus Wednesday afternoon to protest Donald Trump’s election as president, some shouting “F— white America!”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/11/09/student-protesters-burn-american-flags-at-confrontation-over-trump-victory/?utm_term=.7f3f36ad1006

And

Quote

Your DNA is an abomination"

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/30/texas-student-newspaper-blasted-over-anti-white-your-dna-is-abomination-column.html

The woman I'm dating is Hispanic and she agrees, and she isn't the only one. The election of Trump and the actions of many on the far right has been bad for whites and led to much distrust. Especially among the younger aged. There are segments on the left that are running and pushing it also. It also doesn't help when you take her to Auburn for a game, and two idiots don't realize she is Hispanic, and ask her how happy she will be when Trump removes all the Hispanic from Texas.

[homersapien 11,366]

1 hour ago, Texan4Auburn said:

I remember that one, went something like:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/11/09/student-protesters-burn-american-flags-at-confrontation-over-trump-victory/?utm_term=.7f3f36ad1006

And

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/30/texas-student-newspaper-blasted-over-anti-white-your-dna-is-abomination-column.html

The woman I'm dating is Hispanic and she agrees, and she isn't the only one. The election of Trump and the actions of many on the far right has been bad for whites and led to much distrust. Especially among the younger aged. There are segments on the left that are running and pushing it also. It also doesn't help when you take her to Auburn for a game, and two idiots don't realize she is Hispanic, and ask her how happy she will be when Trump removes all the Hispanic from Texas.

No, that's not the one I was talking about.   What was the title of that thread again?

[homersapien 11,366]

1 hour ago, Texan4Auburn said:

You could always go get us some stuff from Quora again and prove the point wrong.

 

 

 

Hey, I said you got me.

"athletes, schools, and community groups are now finding the current and past US flags offensive."

 

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

First, I would never assume your political leanings and especially was not under the impression that you are racist. In fact, I've always assumed you to be a very decent and thoughtful person who doesn't suffer BS. Furthermore, I don't disrespect conservatives just for being conservatives nor do I consider them all or even most of them racists. I want you to know that I hold you specifically- based merely off what little I know of you from here- and many conservatives in general in high regard. And I'm grateful to know you a little better from your post!

However, the people whose thoughts and behavior this movement is targeting tend to be both conservative and racist. 

Perhaps there's an important distinction between "less hurtful" and "inoffensive", so I apologize if I misunderstood. 

And you are right, of course, that loving the flag and the National Anthem isn't a partisan issue. In fact, I guarantee you that many of the players kneeling very much do love the flag and the National Anthem, and both factor into the sacrifice they make by kneeling. The kneeling is, in fact, a function of deep patriotism in the case of many of those guys. They stand to lose more personally than they stand to gain. For the most part, they are not the guys who generally have to fear unearned physical violence at the hands of police officers. Yet they risk endorsements, fines, and quite possibly- as Colin K. might be in the process of proving- their careers. They do this because they think they can make the country better. That's more than a lot of people complaining about it can say. (And I have no idea what anyone here does in their free time, so that was absolutely not a shot at anyone reading this.)

The orange draft dodger currently sullying the White House and this nation's good name campaigned on the premise that America isn't good enough. A LOT of idiots ran around with ridiculous red signs on their heads advertising it. I don't see much of a difference between that and these players choosing to demonstrate their understanding of the significance of the flag and the anthem by choosing that moment to kneel. Not sit on the bench, or talk on their phones, or wear stupid and carelessly disrespectful shorts and other clothing that violates protocol on Independence Day, or to otherwise passively disrespect and disregard the flag and the anthem. But to kneel. 

 

 

 

 

We are cool I may have mis-read your original post.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Thank you LaVar Ball. You got it right. At least I don't think you will get called a racist.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/06/03/lavar-ball-nfl-protesters-stand-national-anthem-or-get-out

[McLoofus 35,182]

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Aaaaaand at this very Dear Leader-esque spectacle that the orange baboon put on instead of hosting the Eagles, he really showed 'em what patriotism is all about.
 

 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Aaaaaand at this very Dear Leader-esque spectacle that the orange baboon put on instead of hosting the Eagles, he really showed 'em what patriotism is all about.
 

 

Maybe he knows the words and just don't sing along. I do that sometimes even when I know the words. But neither of us know in his case.  For sure, IMHO, no patriot would call a POTUS an orange baboon. That makes you a bigot by the very definition you posted.