Can Slayton be the all-around WR we need?

[McLoofus 35,182]

42 minutes ago, Tiger said:

IMO both NCM and Slay can be all-around stud WRs. However, I don't think our coaches will put them in a position to do that.

Up until this point in the Gus as HC era, the way we've used our WRs has not been conducive to any WR to be an all-around threat. We coach our WRs to be 1 trick ponies as Todd McShay put it. I thought this would stop when got the influx of talent in Stove/NCM/Kyle Davis but those guys have also been asked to do just 1 thing basically. Whoever is getting our WRs to commit to us is doing one hell of a job because, if I had a WR prospect as a son (which I don't) I'm not sure what's attractive about sending my kid to play in this offense as a WR. Even former players like Ricardo Louis has said he was way behind in his WR development when he got to the NFL and while Sammie Coates did not say that publicly his pro coaches did.

Does anyone have an actual reason as to why a coach would limit his offense in this manner? Isn't it common knowledge that if a WR is known to run multiple routes he becomes exponentially harder to defend? Isn't Gus a former WR? 

[atl-tiger 655]

46 minutes ago, Tiger said:

IMO both NCM and Slay can be all-around stud WRs. However, I don't think our coaches will put them in a position to do that.

Up until this point in the Gus as HC era, the way we've used our WRs has not been conducive to any WR to be an all-around threat. We coach our WRs to be 1 trick ponies as Todd McShay put it. I thought this would stop when got the influx of talent in Stove/NCM/Kyle Davis but those guys have also been asked to do just 1 thing basically. Whoever is getting our WRs to commit to us is doing one hell of a job because, if I had a WR prospect as a son (which I don't) I'm not sure what's attractive about sending my kid to play in this offense as a WR. Even former players like Ricardo Louis has said he was way behind in his WR development when he got to the NFL and while Sammie Coates did not say that publicly his pro coaches did.

Does anyone have an actual reason as to why a coach would limit his offense in this manner? Isn't it common knowledge that if a WR is known to run multiple routes he becomes exponentially harder to defend? Isn't Gus a former WR? 

 

 

Million dollar question.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

On 5/31/2018 at 10:30 AM, Tiger said:

IMO both NCM and Slay can be all-around stud WRs. However, I don't think our coaches will put them in a position to do that.

Up until this point in the Gus as HC era, the way we've used our WRs has not been conducive to any WR to be an all-around threat. We coach our WRs to be 1 trick ponies as Todd McShay put it. I thought this would stop when got the influx of talent in Stove/NCM/Kyle Davis but those guys have also been asked to do just 1 thing basically. Whoever is getting our WRs to commit to us is doing one hell of a job because, if I had a WR prospect as a son (which I don't) I'm not sure what's attractive about sending my kid to play in this offense as a WR. Even former players like Ricardo Louis has said he was way behind in his WR development when he got to the NFL and while Sammie Coates did not say that publicly his pro coaches did.

Does anyone have an actual reason as to why a coach would limit his offense in this manner? Isn't it common knowledge that if a WR is known to run multiple routes he becomes exponentially harder to defend? Isn't Gus a former WR? 

 

 

well if you got an offense that only has like 3 routes, you're just wasting time teaching the kids any intricacies  

[Tiger 8,817]

14 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

well if you got an offense that only has like 3 routes, you're just wasting time teaching the kids any intricacies  

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

SIAP, but did we know that Slayton is this fast? Is this accurate?

Quote

The undisputed deep threat in the Tigers' passing attack has been clocked at 4.35 seconds in the 40-yard dash, and as a high school track star, he clocked a 10.53-second 100-meter time despite a groin pull. 

https://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2018/06/2_auburn_players_among_fastest.html

[lionheartkc 6,150]

34 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

SIAP, but did we know that Slayton is this fast? Is this accurate?

https://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2018/06/2_auburn_players_among_fastest.html

Speed is the shiny thing that Gus is attracted to above all else......

[LKEEL75 2,566]

Just now, lionheartkc said:

Speed is the shiny thing that Gus is attracted to above all else......

Took a page from the Al Davis book of players

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Speed is the shiny thing that Gus is attracted to above all else......

And he's getting it. Can't knock him on that front. 

When we spend all of the previous recruiting cycle drooling over Schwartz and Shivers, and then I read that Iggy sold the new speedy receiver commit on AU, and then I read that we have guys on both sides of the ball who are among the fastest in CFB... yeah... go accomplish your goals and be the best version of yourself, Gus. I'm mclovin' it. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

Took a page from the Al Davis book of players

For better or worse, I'm afraid. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

And he's getting it. Can't knock him on that front. 

When we spend all of the previous recruiting cycle drooling over Schwartz and Shivers, and then I read that Iggy sold the new speedy receiver commit on AU, and then I read that we have guys on both sides of the ball who are among the fastest in CFB... yeah... go accomplish your goals and be the best version of yourself, Gus. I'm mclovin' it. 

I think it's great that we are getting it. At the same time, I'm still waiting for one of these speed demons to become a star on the team. So far, the majority of our guys that Gus pulled the trigger on, potentially just because they were fast, have ended up as average to underwhelming.  We've yet to have one consistently burn a team over the top, beat the line backer to the corner, etc. Marshall was probably our best overall "fast" guy and I don't think Gus grabbed him because he was fast. Franklin was definitely the biggest bust of the speed guys.

I have serious hopes for Schwartz and Shivers, and I hope Iggy's speed turns out to be a boon for the defense, but at the same time, I wonder if Gus might be a little too enamored by the stop watch.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, lionheartkc said:

I think it's great that we are getting it. At the same time, I'm still waiting for one of these speed demons to become a star on the team. So far, the majority of our guys that Gus pulled the trigger on, potentially just because they were fast, have ended up as average to underwhelming.  We've yet to have one consistently burn a team over the top, beat the line backer to the corner, etc. Marshall was probably our best overall "fast" guy and I don't think Gus grabbed him because he was fast. Franklin was definitely the biggest bust of the speed guys.

I have serious hopes for Schwartz and Shivers, and I hope Iggy's speed turns out to be a boon for the defense, but at the same time, I wonder if Gus might be a little too enamored by the stop watch.

Onterrio McCalebb, Cory Grant, Sammie Coates. Those are just the obvious ones. All 3 were massive playmakers at AU and made it into the NFL, even if McCalebb did it at another position. And that doesn't take into account guys on defense like Javaris Davis. 

Agreed on Franklin, because our staff mystifyingly followed him on his magical quest to be a QB, but what other busts are you referring to? And how much higher is the rate at which they bust than any other type of player?

TZach, Ricardo Louis, Eli Stove, Ryan Davis... Speed is about the only thing that Gus has consistently employed in an effective manner on offense since he got here IMO.

Of course, there is the issue of his offense consistently failing to get WRs open and/or enable QBs to deliver balls downfield. 

[DAG 33,955]

Coaching staff has to actually utilize the innate talent of the guys. It’s pretty simple. Quite frankly we have enough athletes to go 5 wide all dang game if we wanted to, but we know that won’t happen. We have too much talent on the offensive end to be so limited in how we move the ball. I am still ticked on how under utilized Stanton Truitt was with his time here on the plains.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Onterrio McCalebb, Cory Grant, Sammie Coates. Those are just the obvious ones. All 3 were massive playmakers at AU and made it into the NFL, even if McCalebb did it at another position. And that doesn't take into account guys on defense like Javaris Davis. 

Agreed on Franklin, because our staff mystifyingly followed him on his magical quest to be a QB, but what other busts are you referring to? And how much higher is the rate at which they bust than any other type of player?

TZach, Ricardo Louis, Eli Stove, Ryan Davis... Speed is about the only thing that Gus has consistently employed in an effective manner on offense since he got here IMO.

Of course, there is the issue of his offense consistently failing to get WRs open and/or enable QBs to deliver balls downfield. 

Not giving Gus credit for OMac. He came on board in 2009, so it's a toss up how much Gus was involved. Same kind of thing with Grant. He transferred from bama, and walked on, so he personally wanted to be at Auburn. Sammie definitely had some speed, but he still wasn't a burner like the guys that Gus offers the first time he sees them run a 40.

In any case, I'm not saying that Gus doesn't scheme well for speed. My point is that Gus has shown that he'll go after a kid just because he is fast.  I get the feeling that he thinks that speed can make up for other deficiencies. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

I am still ticked on how under utilized Stanton Truitt was with his time here on the plains.

So was he...

[DAG 33,955]

And for clarification , I am not saying Stanton should’ve been the starter or even a star player because I am sure someone will chime in about that. What I am saying is he definitely could’ve been a speed sweep quality guy for us or even a great scat back in certain positions. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, DAG said:

We have too much talent on the offensive end to be so limited in how we move the ball.

This should be the motivational quote above the door to whatever room the offensive staff meets in. 

[DAG 33,955]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

I think it's great that we are getting it. At the same time, I'm still waiting for one of these speed demons to become a star on the team. So far, the majority of our guys that Gus pulled the trigger on, potentially just because they were fast, have ended up as average to underwhelming.  We've yet to have one consistently burn a team over the top, beat the line backer to the corner, etc. Marshall was probably our best overall "fast" guy and I don't think Gus grabbed him because he was fast. Franklin was definitely the biggest bust of the speed guys.

I have serious hopes for Schwartz and Shivers, and I hope Iggy's speed turns out to be a boon for the defense, but at the same time, I wonder if Gus might be a little too enamored by the stop watch.

I am still baffled as to why Rhett Lashlee thought JF3 was more coveted over the guy who went to V. Tech. I can understand taking NM as a risk due to the fact, he at the very least had a cannon of an arm. Accuracy is another issue, but I really don’t understand what they saw on game film that made them think he was a better get than the other prospect. 

[DAG 33,955]

20 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Not giving Gus credit for OMac. He came on board in 2009, so it's a toss up how much Gus was involved. Same kind of thing with Grant. He transferred from bama, and walked on, so he personally wanted to be at Auburn. Sammie definitely had some speed, but he still wasn't a burner like the guys that Gus offers the first time he sees them run a 40.

In any case, I'm not saying that Gus doesn't scheme well for speed. My point is that Gus has shown that he'll go after a kid just because he is fast.  I get the feeling that he thinks that speed can make up for other deficiencies. 

I think you have a point there lionheart. He does love his speedsters and that is fine if he can scheme around them. You can’t teach speed. My only issue is when we recruit them and they are basically non existent. We could’ve spent that time going after someone else. This was my issue with Jason Smith, JF3 and that one other kid who we tried to recruit from UGA. Man what is his name? He essentially was the best athlete on his team and the staff was recruiting him as a QB, but he ended up signing to UGA as a safety. Any who, it was clear as day he was lacking at throwing the ball, just a superior athlete...

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

And for clarification , I am not saying Stanton should’ve been the starter or even a star player because I am sure someone will chime in about that. What I am saying is he definitely could’ve been a speed sweep quality guy for us or even a great scat back in certain positions. 

Dude carried the ball 8 times for 78 yards and 2 TDs against Arkansas in 2016. 3 weeks later, in a really important game where we had no QB- Sean White completed 4 more passes than Kerryon Johnson did for 17 more yards- he got 2 carries for 5 yards. Oh, and he caught 1 pass for 6 yards. But hey, KJ ripped off 22 carries at 4.5 yards per, so why try anything else when RB1 is going full beast mode like that?! Totally makes sense that one running back had twice as many carries as the rest of the team- QB1 and his 2 sacks included- had combined, and 6 more touches than the entire rest of the team had combined. We almost had 160 total yards of offense! If it ain't broke, don't fix it amirite

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

I think you have a point there lionheart. He does love his speedsters and that is fine if he can scheme around them. You can’t teach speed. My only issue is when we recruit them and they are basically non existent. We could’ve spent that time going after someone else. This was my issue with Jason Smith, JF3 and that one other kid who we tried to recruit from UGA. Man what is his name? He essentially was the best athlete on his team and the staff was recruiting him as a QB, but he ended up signing to UGA as a safety. Any who, it was clear as day he was lacking at throwing the ball, just a superior athlete...

That's a pretty short list of busts, and a far lower failure rate than for players at every position in general, especially WR. 

If y'all have more names, I'm all ears. 

[DAG 33,955]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Dude carried the ball 8 times for 78 yards and 2 TDs against Arkansas in 2016. 3 weeks later, in a really important game where we had no QB- Sean White completed 4 more passes than Kerryon Johnson did for 17 more yards- he got 2 carries for 5 yards. Oh, and he caught 1 pass for 6 yards. But hey, KJ ripped off 22 carries at 4.5 yards per, so why try anything else when RB1 is going full beast mode like that?! Totally makes sense that one running back had twice as many carries as the rest of the team- QB1 and his 2 sacks included- had combined, and 6 more touches than the entire rest of the team had combined. We almost had 160 total yards of offense! If it ain't broke, don't fix it amirite

I will say this, even though JF3 was extremely limited from a passing standpoint, I thought the combination with him and Truitt worked very well. I wouldn’t advocate for that in most games but with how desperate we were in that UGA game , I thought that could at least moved the ball a little to set us up in scoring position. Ehh hindsight is 20/20

[DAG 33,955]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

That's a pretty short list of busts, and a far lower failure rate than for players at every position in general, especially WR. 

If y'all have more names, I'm all ears. 

I’m not calling them a bust though. Those guys are athletes and you have to utilize them accordingly. I am just speaking on Gus’s love for speed.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

I will say this, even though JF3 was extremely limited from a passing standpoint, I thought the combination with him and Truitt worked very well. I wouldn’t advocate for that in most games but with how desperate we were in that UGA game , I thought that could at least moved the ball a little to set us up in scoring position. Ehh hindsight is 20/20

OMG. It was like the entire reason for JF3 existing at Auburn finally presented itself, and Gus just sat over there picking his nose and pretending that Sean White still had 2 good arms attached to his body. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

I’m not calling them a bust though. Those guys are athletes and you have to utilize them accordingly. I am just speaking on Gus’s love for speed.

Gotcha. Yeah, I think every coach has a love for speed. And a couple of them use it better. Urban Meyer is probably Exhibit A. 

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

43 minutes ago, DAG said:

Coaching staff has to actually utilize the innate talent of the guys. It’s pretty simple. Quite frankly we have enough athletes to go 5 wide all dang game if we wanted to, but we know that won’t happen. We have too much talent on the offensive end to be so limited in how we move the ball. I am still ticked on how under utilized Stanton Truitt was with his time here on the plains.

 

25 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

This should be the motivational quote above the door to whatever room the offensive staff meets in. 

(well, except for those out-of-bounds pylons, WDE)