safety CJ Harris ineligible

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

In all honesty, it should be legal recreationally everywhere anyway. 

I sure miss living in a recreational state... And I don't even smoke. But there is much less problems with alcohol and harder drugs. Heroin use in Oregon (at least Eugene where I lived) dropped dramatically when the state went recreational. 

For anyone who has a problem with marijuana being legal, you need to put up just as much if not more of a complaint about alcohol. 

This is beyond ridiculous the NCAA would make this young man ineligible because of CBD oil that can LEGALLY be bought in almost every state in the country RIGHT NOW. CBD doesn't get you high AT ALL. ANYONE who makes the claim otherwise is  ignorant of the facts. Like I said it should all be recreationally legal anyway. The state would make MILLIONS in tax revenue. This isn't the 50s anymore. Under NO circumstances should marijuana be a higher classification of drug than crystal meth. It is beyond me, and anyone who has even any sense about them. 

Back on topic, the NCAA should be ashamed of itself.

[passthebiscuits 6,844]

10 hours ago, Barnacle said:

What's the criteria, though? CBD oil can be used to treat pain, inflammation, anxiety and depression, etc. I'm just thinking that the uses are so broad, that almost anyone could get a prescription for it. 

I think this stuff should be legal. I just don't know how the NCAA would be able to define a legitimate use, and then screen players who are using it. Unless you create an extremely narrow exception, like limiting it to individual's diagnosed with epilepsy (recorded history of seizures, etc.), you are going to have a really substantial amount of players across all sports, divisions, etc. who are trying to take advantage of the exception.

Perfect post.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

10 hours ago, Barnacle said:

What's the criteria, though? CBD oil can be used to treat pain, inflammation, anxiety and depression, etc. I'm just thinking that the uses are so broad, that almost anyone could get a prescription for it. 

I think this stuff should be legal. I just don't know how the NCAA would be able to define a legitimate use, and then screen players who are using it. Unless you create an extremely narrow exception, like limiting it to individual's diagnosed with epilepsy (recorded history of seizures, etc.), you are going to have a really substantial amount of players across all sports, divisions, etc. who are trying to take advantage of the exception.

First, I agree that it should be legal.

But given that it isn't, it shouldn't be that hard to draw up a list of conditions such as epilepsy and other medical issues that CBD oil can be used to treat.  Then any player who has those issues and is using CBD oil for it, should submit documentation from a doctor validating they've been diagnosed with the covered condition and that the doctor recommended CBD oil to treat it.  So they are essentially exempt from the MJ flag in their drug tests.  

Could some players take advantage?  Sure.  But we aren't talking about human growth hormone, anabolic steroids or other performance enhancing drugs.  It's not gaining the player any unfair advantage in on the field performance.  If anything, like drinking too close to a game or before practice, it probably diminishes performance.  So just allow it under certain circumstances and be done with it.

Or better yet, just stop testing for it at all since it's not a PED and let the schools handle it from there.

[gman87 398]

Having done a modest amount of research, it sounds like a little clarification may help. CBD oil contains no THC...the stuff in marijuana that gets you high. It's made from hemp plants which are extremely low in THC to begin with. Medical marijuana is a whole different animal....it is pot that can get you stupid high. CBD oil like many supplements isn't tested in the sense that they have a "ingredient" list that's verified. It has been scientifically tested to treat epilepsy and reduce seizures in some people but many of the other claims haven't been verified. State by state legality is in question and by some accounts, if the contents are sourced outside of the US, then it is legal in all states. 

Like has been said, this isn't something that provides a competitive advantage, it doesn't get you high, I can't think of of single reason the NCAA is making a fuss over this when there is rampant cheating going on at at least 1 top team with documented evidence and it gets completely ignored. The NCAA is the poster child for ineffective bureaucracy.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

First, I agree that it should be legal.

But given that it isn't, it shouldn't be that hard to draw up a list of conditions such as epilepsy and other medical issues that CBD oil can be used to treat.  Then any player who has those issues and is using CBD oil for it, should submit documentation from a doctor validating they've been diagnosed with the covered condition and that the doctor recommended CBD oil to treat it.  So they are essentially exempt from the MJ flag in their drug tests.  

Could some players take advantage?  Sure.  But we aren't talking about human growth hormone, anabolic steroids or other performance enhancing drugs.  It's not gaining the player any unfair advantage in on the field performance.  If anything, like drinking too close to a game or before practice, it probably diminishes performance.  So just allow it under certain circumstances and be done with it.

Or better yet, just stop testing for it at all since it's not a PED and let the schools handle it from there.

Except that it is legal. Carly's Law... the more you know...

[lionheartkc 6,150]

9 hours ago, Barnacle said:

Unfortunately, I think we both agree that they aren't going to do anything. And, I don't think they will do anything until the laws change. The NCAA could care less about guys like CJ Harris. It's a shame. 

The thing is, this isn't a law thing. Most states allow CBD oil to be sold over the counter. Heck, I tried some a couple of weeks ago at a local organic food store. All they had to do was be licensed to sell it.  As for Alabama...

Quote

On May 4, 2016, Gov. Bentley signed HB 61 into law. Known as Leni's Law, the bill provides an affirmative defense for possession of CBD oil "for specified debilitating conditions that produce seizures."

The issue with the NCAA, as PTB pointed out, is that it messes up their ability to test him for marijuana use. That's all they care about is that he could use the illegal substance because the legal, prescribed substance messes up their test.  It's total BS.

[AUDub 11,147]

4 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

Except that it is legal. Carly's Law the more you know...

Still a Schedule 1 drug on the federal level. That won't be changing anytime soon with Jeff Sessions running the DOJ.

[Barnacle 9,064]

7 hours ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

Can be legally purchased in Alabama right now. 

Yes, but the problem is distinguishing it from marijuana - which apparently they can't when drug testing?

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

49 minutes ago, gman87 said:

Having done a modest amount of research, it sounds like a little clarification may help. CBD oil contains no THC...the stuff in marijuana that gets you high. It's made from hemp plants which are extremely low in THC to begin with. Medical marijuana is a whole different animal....it is pot that can get you stupid high. CBD oil like many supplements isn't tested in the sense that they have a "ingredient" list that's verified. It has been scientifically tested to treat epilepsy and reduce seizures in some people but many of the other claims haven't been verified. State by state legality is in question and by some accounts, if the contents are sourced outside of the US, then it is legal in all states. 

Like has been said, this isn't something that provides a competitive advantage, it doesn't get you high, I can't think of of single reason the NCAA is making a fuss over this when there is rampant cheating going on at at least 1 top team with documented evidence and it gets completely ignored. The NCAA is the poster child for ineffective bureaucracy.

Exactly. It doesn't take but a few minutes of research to get it all figured out. 

1. It's legal (even in Alabama)

2. It contains no THC (the active ingredient gets you high, and also the active ingredient that makes you fail drug screens for marijuana.)

3. It is scientifically tested to treat epilepsy and reduce seizures.

4. It provides NO competitive advantage.

 

The NCAA should be ASHAMED of itself.

[Zeek 16,649]

53 minutes ago, gman87 said:

Having done a modest amount of research, it sounds like a little clarification may help. CBD oil contains no THC...the stuff in marijuana that gets you high. It's made from hemp plants which are extremely low in THC to begin with. Medical marijuana is a whole different animal....it is pot that can get you stupid high. CBD oil like many supplements isn't tested in the sense that they have a "ingredient" list that's verified. It has been scientifically tested to treat epilepsy and reduce seizures in some people but many of the other claims haven't been verified. State by state legality is in question and by some accounts, if the contents are sourced outside of the US, then it is legal in all states. 

Like has been said, this isn't something that provides a competitive advantage, it doesn't get you high, I can't think of of single reason the NCAA is making a fuss over this when there is rampant cheating going on at at least 1 top team with documented evidence and it gets completely ignored. The NCAA is the poster child for ineffective bureaucracy.

The only argument needed in the post. Good stuff gman.

Essentially this is how I view the NCAA

[lionheartkc 6,150]

11 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

Except that it is legal. Carly's Law the more you know...

Carly's Law (2014) only made it legal for severe epilepsy and only if prescribed by the UAB medical center. Leni's Law (2016) extended it for anyone with seizure disorder but did not extend the prescription ability. It's not legal to be sold in Alabama, or legal to even have it, but if you get arrested, and your doctor comes to your defense, they will let it go. It's kind of a stupid, backwards way of doing things, but that's what you call progress in the ultra-conservative parts of the country.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Yes, but the problem is distinguishing it from marijuana - which apparently they can't when drug testing?

Correct... it has the same test markers, even thought it doesn't contain the THC.  It's kind of like poppy seeds and opioids. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

5 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The thing is, this isn't a law thing. Most states allow CBD oil to be sold over the counter. Heck, I tried some a couple of weeks ago at a local organic food store. All they had to do was be licensed to sell it.  As for Alabama...

The issue with the NCAA, as PTB pointed out, is that it messes up their ability to test him for marijuana use. That's all they care about is that he could use the illegal substance because the legal, prescribed substance messes up their test.  It's total BS.

It is a law thing, if they can't distinguish it from an illegal substance. 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

Yes, but the problem is distinguishing it from marijuana - which apparently they can't when drug testing?

CBD shouldn't trigger a positive result on a drug test, because the only cannabinoid those test for is THC. ... That 0.04 THC percentage wouldn't come up on a drug test if you smoked the raw plant material, but concentrating it can make things tricky

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The thing is, this isn't a law thing. Most states allow CBD oil to be sold over the counter. Heck, I tried some a couple of weeks ago at a local organic food store. All they had to do was be licensed to sell it.  As for Alabama...

The issue with the NCAA, as PTB pointed out, is that it messes up their ability to test him for marijuana use. That's all they care about is that he could use the illegal substance because the legal, prescribed substance messes up their test.  It's total BS.

As long as the people who make it, are making it correctly with the right plants, it shouldn't come back positive. 

It gets tricky because sometimes the people who make the concentrate don't use the correct "hemp" plants. For instance in the last few months, a manufacturer of CBD oil in Trussville was busted for making it with incorrect plants that actually had THC. So in THAT case, the people would of failed it. That's why the concentrate makes it tricky. The manufacturer has to be 100% positive they are using ALL the correct plants and not confusing any or not purposely throwing plants that contained THC during the concentration process.

[AUDub 11,147]

5 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

Exactly. It doesn't take but a few minutes of research to get it all figured out. 

1. It's legal (even in Alabama)

But not federally, and the basis for the NCAA's rule is probably federal prohibition.

If you're a school that relies heavily on federal funding, this would be a very difficult situation to parse.

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Could some players take advantage?  Sure.  But we aren't talking about human growth hormone, anabolic steroids or other performance enhancing drugs.  It's not gaining the player any unfair advantage in on the field performance.  If anything, like drinking too close to a game or before practice, it probably diminishes performance.  So just allow it under certain circumstances and be done with it.

I don't disagree about the effects of marijuana - I just don't see the NCAA changing their stance in the slightest until federal law changes. 

[AUDub 11,147]

Just now, Barnacle said:

I don't disagree about the effects of marijuana - I just don't see the NCAA changing their stance in the slightest until federal law changes. 

Maybe, maybe, back during the Obama admin, when the DOJ's hands off approach to marijuana was pretty well known.

[Barnacle 9,064]

6 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

CBD shouldn't trigger a positive result on a drug test, because the only cannabinoid those test for is THC. ... That 0.04 THC percentage wouldn't come up on a drug test if you smoked the raw plant material, but concentrating it can make things tricky

As long as the people who make it, are making it correctly with the right plants, it shouldn't come back positive. 

It gets tricky because sometimes the people who make the concentrate don't use the correct "hemp" plants. For instance in the last few months, a manufacturer of CBD oil in Trussville was busted for making it with incorrect plants that actually had THC. So in THAT case, the people would of failed it. That's why the concentrate makes it tricky. The manufacturer has to be 100% positive they are using ALL the correct plants and not confusing any or not purposely throwing plants that contained THC during the concentration process.

Couldn't it trigger it though? Would that be enough to assert CBD use as a defense, if a player did fail a drug test (when in fact they had been ingesting or smoking some other form of THC)?

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

12 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Carly's Law (2014) only made it legal for severe epilepsy and only if prescribed by the UAB medical center. Leni's Law (2016) extended it for anyone with seizure disorder but did not extend the prescription ability. It's not legal to be sold in Alabama, or legal to even have it, but if you get arrested, and your doctor comes to your defense, they will let it go. It's kind of a stupid, backwards way of doing things, but that's what you call progress in the ultra-conservative parts of the country.

Good (if complicated) overview (including statute references), discussing AL's positive-defense provisions at 

https://www.safeaccessnow.org/alabama_legal_information

 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

2 minutes ago, AUDub said:

But not federally, and the basis for the NCAA's rule is probably federal prohibition.

If you're a school that relies heavily on federal funding, this would be a very difficult situation to parse.

That makes sense. Especially since individual states can have different laws. But it's still nonsense. I guess it still all goes back to complete legalization. That way things like this wouldn't happen 

9 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Carly's Law (2014) only made it legal for severe epilepsy and only if prescribed by the UAB medical center. Leni's Law (2016) extended it for anyone with seizure disorder but did not extend the prescription ability. It's not legal to be sold in Alabama, or legal to even have it, but if you get arrested, and your doctor comes to your defense, they will let it go. It's kind of a stupid, backwards way of doing things, but that's what you call progress in the ultra-conservative parts of the country.

Carly's law is what started it. It's what made it legal in Alabama. And it's what this young man would of been able to acquire CBD oil. It wouldn't of been difficult for him to get enrolled in the UAB study.

 

Leni's Law is what made it where basically anyone can have it. It made it where it can be bought all over the state in different kind of stores. It's not like it has to be bought at pharmacies. It can be bought at sleazy gas stations all over the state, much less ordered online, and "head" shops (which would most likely turn into dispensaries with legalization.)

[Barnacle 9,064]

FWIW I know hospitals can't legally store CBD oil in their pharmacies in Alabama - although they sometimes will if a patient brings it in with a prescription. Hospitals will often store other medications that patients bring in - but are technically not supposed to if its CBD.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

8 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Maybe, maybe, back during the Obama admin, when the DOJ's hands off approach to marijuana was pretty well known.

Even with Sessions and his threats to go after recreational marijuana, he hasn't done so. And more and more states are completely legalizing it. 

However I doubt that will happen in my lifetime in this state. Even if it's legalized on a federal level. If it is, they will let individual states make their own decisions. Which it usually goes through medical first, then decriminalization, then legalization. Which won't likely happen in my lifetime. Maybe my son's. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

Just now, Auburn2Eugene said:

Even with Sessions and his threats to go after recreational marijuana, he hasn't done so. And more and more states are completely legalizing it. 

However I doubt that will happen in my lifetime in this state. Even if it's legalized on a federal level. If it is, they will let individual states make their own decisions. Which it usually goes through medical first, then decriminalization, then legalization. Which won't likely happen in my lifetime. Maybe my son's. 

I'm more optimistic than that (I don't know how old you are, though).

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

2 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

FWIW I know hospitals can't legally store CBD oil in their pharmacies in Alabama - although they sometimes will if a patient brings it in with a prescription. Hospitals will often store other medications that patients bring in - but are technically not supposed to if its CBD.

Seriously CBD can be bought online and mailed to you, head shops, and sleazy gas stations across the state. My dad buys the pens in Birmingham with no prescription.

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

Seriously CBD can be bought online and mailed to you, head shops, and sleazy gas stations across the state. My dad buys the pens in Birmingham with no prescription.

Oh I know that, I was just throwing that out there - my wife and I were talking about it last night. She's a clinical pharmacist who works in a hospital. Apparently they can't store it.