2019 3* RB Tye Edwards

[mustache eagle 2,388]

29 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

KJ was the leading rusher in the SEC last year!!! 

...mainly in total number of carries. He was 14th in yards per. 

We need a more diverse run game and we need to spread the touches around. Horton said as much in the spring, at least about the 2nd part. I know that was painful and confusing for some. 

As much as this issue has bugged me, I had no idea he was 14th in that stat.  Good Grief.  Its a wonder any of our RB's ever last a season ... come to think of it ... have they?

I know I have blabbed on about this issue ad nauseam, but KJ should have seen 5-ish less touches a game (except for the "big" games).  RB3-5 get more experience and higher morale and KJ "might" not be gimpy in the championship game.   yea, I know ... blah blah blah ...

edit: i will say, if we are going to do this then we need a whole lot more Kam Pettways and Tye Edwards.

[AU80cruiser 1,102]

Watch this guy be Gurley 2.0 and we just let him slip away.

[McLoofus 35,182]

19 hours ago, mustache eagle said:

As much as this issue has bugged me, I had no idea he was 14th in that stat.  Good Grief.  Its a wonder any of our RB's ever last a season ... come to think of it ... have they?

I know I have blabbed on about this issue ad nauseam, but KJ should have seen 5-ish less touches a game (except for the "big" games).  RB3-5 get more experience and higher morale and KJ "might" not be gimpy in the championship game.   yea, I know ... blah blah blah ...

edit: i will say, if we are going to do this then we need a whole lot more Kam Pettways and Tye Edwards.

Pettway was just as injury prone as KJ, but that only further serves your point. *No* RB should be carrying the ball that often. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

19 hours ago, mustache eagle said:

Its a wonder any of our RB's ever last a season ... come to think of it ... have they?

 

Well yeah.. KJ was abused last year like a rented mule. Hopefully Gus will continue putting talent behind the RB1 and diversifying the offense so that he doesn’t have to depend on only one guy anymore. A trusted RB2, more quick passes, and a great screen game will make life easier on the RB1’s.

[lutzcammed 469]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

Well yeah.. KJ was abused last year like a rented mule. Hopefully Gus will continue putting talent behind the RB1 and diversifying the offense so that he doesn’t have to depend on only one guy anymore. A trusted RB2, more quick passes, and a great screen game will make life easier on the RB1’s.

ill believe it when I see it.  Same goes for letting the QB check out of plays at the line of scrimmage.   I know they said it's gonna happen but I actually wanna see it happen. on both accounts.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, lutzcammed said:

ill believe it when I see it.  Same goes for letting the QB check out of plays at the line of scrimmage.   I know they said it's gonna happen but I actually wanna see it happen. on both accounts.

Sneaky positive aspect to the uncertainty at RB this season: Gus doesn't have any 1 guy that he loves WAY WAY WAY more than anyone else like he does most seasons, with last season being peak Gus Don't Trust imo. 

My optimistic spin is that, even though somebody will likely separate himself by week 5 or so, I don't think there is a guy who will be so much more complete than anyone else like KJ was. The staff might be forced into more diverse play calling and situational use of the RB corps as Jeff described. Not having a clear-cut all-around RB might not be ideal for game plans and play calling, but it might keep us from leaving an extremely gifted runner like Kam Martin on the shelf while RB1 drops footballs and limbs all over the field in Atlanta. And that might better prepare Gus to be a coach who we really want to finish out his big contract. 

[Mikey 16,550]

On 7/12/2018 at 12:07 PM, mustache eagle said:

Its a wonder any of our RB's ever last a season ... come to think of it ... have they?

Mike Dyer and Tre Mason come immediately to mind. Both KJ and Pettway were somewhat injured early in the season last year. That can hardly be blamed on too many carries. I think a bit more complete set of statistics is needed before we can say there's a trend. Had KJ not landed oddly on his shoulder late last year, he could very conceivably have finished the season in top shape.

"He gets stronger as the game goes on" has been a platitude given to Auburn RB's since time out of mind. I don't think things have changed that much.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

52 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Mike Dyer and Tre Mason come immediately to mind. Both KJ and Pettway were somewhat injured early in the season last year. That can hardly be blamed on too many carries. I think a bit more complete set of statistics is needed before we can say there's a trend. Had KJ not landed oddly on his shoulder late last year, he could very conceivably have finished the season in top shape.

"He gets stronger as the game goes on" has been a platitude given to Auburn RB's since time out of mind. I don't think things have changed that much.

Dyer
2010 Freshman-  182 for 1093 at 6.0 per
2011 Sophomore- 242 for 1242 at 5.1

Mason 
2012  171 for 1002 at 5.9 per
2013  317 for 1816 at 5.7 per

KJ
2016  182 for 895 at 4.9
2017  285 for 1391 at 4.9

Bubba
2016  209 for 1224 at 5.9

It is uncanny how these stats show Gus' trust issue with players as he goes into ride them like a rented mule mode in their 2nd years.  It's like he just focuses everything on them.  When he spreads it around the numbers look great.  Cam and Dyer in 2010. No Cam in 2011.  KJ and Bubba in 2016. No Bubba in 2017.  These stats could be discussed till the cows come home but 2011, 2013, and 2017 show too much abuse on one guy.  2013 with Mason is damn near criminal.  And we wonder why he has mental issues.

One more thing.  I have to give huge credit to Tre Mason for the 2013 season.  It would be easy to assume without looking at the stats that he just piled up yardage due to carries.  He did do that but his YPC for a back with that many carries is phenomenal.  My hat is off to that young man for 317 totes at a 5.7 average.  Not to mention kick returns.

KJ was awesome and gave it his all for Auburn but the stats show why I like a thicker back.  Dyer, Mason, and Bubba average almost a yard more per carry.  I have to attribute this to the extra weight and low center of gravity to get extra yards.  As I said before this is all subjective and just my opinion.

 
 

[mustache eagle 2,388]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Mike Dyer and Tre Mason come immediately to mind. Both KJ and Pettway were somewhat injured early in the season last year. That can hardly be blamed on too many carries. I think a bit more complete set of statistics is needed before we can say there's a trend. Had KJ not landed oddly on his shoulder late last year, he could very conceivably have finished the season in top shape.

"He gets stronger as the game goes on" has been a platitude given to Auburn RB's since time out of mind. I don't think things have changed that much.

I don't recall Mason having any significant injuries.  If there were, it could be explained as normal football bumps/bruises.  I don't recall specifics but I distinctly remember Dyer being gimpy the second half of the season.  Specifically runs against Arky where he actually was running with a limp.  He was very very productive.  Could also be explained as normal football, but a second quality back to share more of the productive load would have been nice.  Of course, Chiz could have been making the final call on Dyer.

It is hard for me to jump up and down about Mason and our 2013 run game.  That was an historic run offense and was truly special.  Our OL blocking, WR blocking, RB and QB play was simply astounding.  It will be quite an accomplishment for that to be matched.

IMHO, the cox cat whirrly bird QB rotation against Clemson (which has me in "prove it to me" mode about CGM to this day) was due to his plan to run Jovon Robinson into the ground that season.  When we booted him, we didn't have a backup running plan ... so we went trickeration and had 7 people take snaps.  A solid platoon of RB's to run the ball that season would have been nice.  Also, FWIW, I thought Jovon had Heisman-esque season in his future that year.  I've never been so disappointed to not see a guy fulfill his potential.

[Gowebb11 9,308]

SEC rushing attempt leaders by year, since 2000. AU does like to get mileage from their RBs. 

[bigbird 60,368]

27 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

SEC rushing attempt leaders by year, since 2000. AU does like to get mileage from their RBs. 

Add in Gus' arky teams and he owns 6 of the top 12

[Gowebb11 9,308]

59 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Add in Gus' arky teams and he owns 6 of the top 12

Interesting observation. This whole discussion is pretty intriguing. For instance, McDadden had a ton of carries over 2 years and enjoyed a lengthy and healthy pro career. Also, Tre and CAP both exceeded KJs carries and the “too many carries” discussion never came about. I guess if you don’t get hurt, it’s not too many carries, and if you do get hurt, it is. I cut the list at 2000. Going further back, Herschel had 3 straight years of over 300 carries, and that was with shorter seasons.

Oh ueah, and I hope Tye Edwards is durable. (Staying on topic and all) ?

[ellitor 33,062]

18 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Interesting observation. This whole discussion is pretty intriguing. For instance, McDadden had a ton of carries over 2 years and enjoyed a lengthy and healthy pro career. Also, Tre and CAP both exceeded KJs carries and the “too many carries” discussion never came about. I guess if you don’t get hurt, it’s not too many carries, and if you do get hurt, it is. I cut the list at 2000. Going further back, Herschel had 3 straight years of over 300 carries, and that was with shorter seasons.

Oh ueah, and I hope Tye Edwards is durable. (Staying on topic and all) ?

McFadden also really hasn’t been a feature back much in the NFL. FWIW there was a discussion back when CAP was our feature back that we weren’t spreading carries enough.

[Gowebb11 9,308]

3 minutes ago, ellitor said:

McFadden also really hasn’t been a feature back much in the NFL. FWIW there was a discussion back when CAP was our feature back that we weren’t spreading carries enough.

My point on McFadden was that he was healthy enough to have a long NFL career, in spite of very heavy college workload.  I definitely agree that Gus needs to spread carries around more. It’s wise to keep them fresh and have several with experience. But a lot of folks talk about Gus wearing RBs out. I’m  on the fence as to whether a lot of carries for a season or two is damaging to a RBs health. 

[ellitor 33,062]

1 hour ago, Gowebb11 said:

I’m  on the fence as to whether a lot of carries for a season or two is damaging to a RBs health. 

It unequivocally is long term given the size, & strength of defensive players. As KJ said the other day, it's crazy for college or pro backs to run as much as Gus ran him.

[Mikey 16,550]

3 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

SEC rushing attempt leaders by year, since 2000. AU does like to get mileage from their RBs. 

What this shows us is that "If you've got a good horse, ride him" applies very well to SEC football. I don't see anything out of the ordinary with Auburn's numbers. KJ's 285 carries in 14 games is well below the per game carries of many of those listed from back when fewer games were played. Caddy carried 41 times against UGA, I believe in his freshman year. I've read accounts of the 1954 Miami game when Coach Jordan's Auburn Tigers beat highly ranked Miami by having Joe Childress carry close to 40 times. Then of course, there's the above listed 395 carries for Derrick Henry at UAT. That tops the charts. I don't agree with this "OMG he's carrying the ball too much" line of thought.

I will submit that we could more often sit our top guy once the game is in hand against lesser opponents, then ride him hard the next week if it's a big game.

[Mikey 16,550]

14 minutes ago, ellitor said:

It unequivocally is long term given the size, & strength of defensive players. As KJ said the other day, it's crazy for college or pro backs to run as much as Gus ran him.

12 of the 18 players listed carried the ball 280 times or more. JK's 285 was nothing unusual.

[The Plainsman 948]

25 minutes ago, Mikey said:

12 of the 18 players listed carried the ball 280 times or more. JK's 285 was nothing unusual.

And those carries helped him go pro early.   

[oracle79 3,569]

4 hours ago, Mikey said:

I don't agree with this "OMG he's carrying the ball too much" line of thought.

Other than Cam, none of those guys has done crap in the NFL.

[gr82be 14,402]

28 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

Other than Cam, none of those guys has done crap in the NFL.

I think Caddy had a pretty good NFL career. He played 7 seasons and averaged 11 games per. Thats over twice the average life of a NFL back. He averaged 3.8 YPC. Not bad for a back with a history of bad wheels. 

[Mikey 16,550]

4 hours ago, oracle79 said:

Other than Cam, none of those guys has done crap in the NFL.

You seem to think there's a correlation between how many or how few carries in college and success in the NFL. There are plenty of NFL stars and busts whose stats indicate otherwise.

[aujeff11 6,243]

9 hours ago, Mikey said:

What this shows us is that "If you've got a good horse, ride him" applies very well to SEC football. I don't see anything out of the ordinary with Auburn's numbers. KJ's 285 carries in 14 games is well below the per game carries of many of those listed from back when fewer games were played. Caddy carried 41 times against UGA, I believe in his freshman year. I've read accounts of the 1954 Miami game when Coach Jordan's Auburn Tigers beat highly ranked Miami by having Joe Childress carry close to 40 times. Then of course, there's the above listed 395 carries for Derrick Henry at UAT. That tops the charts. I don't agree with this "OMG he's carrying the ball too much" line of thought.

I will submit that we could more often sit our top guy once the game is in hand against lesser opponents, then ride him hard the next week if it's a big game.

I don’t think we should overreact to how many carries our players get either. During the big drives, I want tbe RB1’s to carry the load. During the close games, I want Gus to seldom use the RBs that are either coughing up the football or just don’t have it that day.  This is one area where Gus and I see eye to eye. Sure Gus can put in the RB2’s more when we are coasting after taking tbe lead or when tbe defenses are tired, but overall he’s done a good job with working what he has. However, sometimes what he has is just simply not enough. We needed a RB2 last year that Gus could trust to put in the critical games when needed. During the SECCG, it was pretty apparent that he only trusted a half-healthy KJ. I’m guessing before the season Gus counted on Pettway on forming the duo and that didn’t work out.

As far as the list of RB carries, for one I’m surprised that little Shaud Williams ran that much, but then again, I don’t remember him having much durability issues. Some players just have a knack for staying healthy. Derrick Henry “got stronger” in the fourth only because the defenders were at the same time getting weaker. That’s when someone like Derrick Henry is at max value. Sometimes it’s just not smart to take players out of the game solely because of the RB pitch count. Unfortunately KJ wasn’t one of the guys that had a knack for staying healthy. Not having a trusted RB2 really hurt late in tbe season. 

[Gowebb11 9,308]

5 hours ago, oracle79 said:

Other than Cam, none of those guys has done crap in the NFL.

But LeVeon Bell has, and he had over 380 carries his last year at MSU, compared to KJs 285 this past season. Ray Rice and Cedric Benson had over 900 carries in college compared to KJs 500 at AU. Christian McCaffrey and Dalvin Cook both had seasons with more carries than KJ. NFL RB careers are notoriously short, whether someone has a lot of college carries or not. The debate is whether or not KJs workload was excessive this past year. I certainly would like to see Gus spread carries more, but the notion that a heavy college workload leads to shorter NFL careers is not necessarily borne out by facts. Now, how that RBs body feels at the age of 40 or 50 is another story. 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

It is not just about the amount of carries a back gets.  It is all about not having anyone even remotely ready to go when RB1 is injured because you have stubbornly ran RB1 exclusively like he is superman.  Today's game is a faster more violent game than in the past.  300 collisions in 2018 are with faster and with larger people than in the 80's.  Injuries are going to happen.  You need RB2 ready to go and you need a gameplan when you have an injury instead of the ol' we will ride the horse that got us here routine. 

[ellitor 33,062]

41 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

It is not just about the amount of carries a back gets.  It is all about not having anyone even remotely ready to go when RB1 is injured because you have stubbornly ran RB1 exclusively like he is superman.  Today's game is a faster more violent game than in the past.  300 collisions in 2018 are with faster and with larger people than in the 80's.  Injuries are going to happen.  You need RB2 ready to go and you need a gameplan when you have an injury instead of the ol' we will ride the horse that got us here routine.