GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Grumps said: I can COMPLETELY see why you would take offense to what happened in your church. I also COMPLETELY agree that Franklin Graham has in many ways crossed over from being a Christian leader to being a political pawn. I agree that Trump is immoral. What I don't agree with is that your former pastor was supporting Trump's actions. If you are willing to answer, I would like to ask this: In your opinion, is Trump or Mrs. Clinton more likely to support the growth/mission of the "Christian" church? Also, thanks for being willing to explain some of the reason behind your beliefs. Sadly, people here may use that against you. If I see it, I promise never to bring up your past and to defend you if anyone else does (not that you need defending!) In my opinion the church supported Trump over Clinton because they only see two biblical issues, homosexuality and abortion. And Trump recognized that and shifted his rhetoric. Remember when he that women who get an abortion should be punished? Christians lapped that up. So in that sense Trump was more supportive of what the church wants- limited rights for homosexuals and abortion clinics shut down- he was their guy even if they had to excuse personal conduct that went against their own beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 11 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said: It also says love your enemy. Trump definitely has that one down in regards to Russia. Black athletes and political rivals, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 12 hours ago, GiveEmElle said: Well you survived eight years of Obama without spontaneously combusting, so I’m sure I can make it until Mueller fixes this mess. You are in for a huge disappointment from Mueller but Trump IS fixing the mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said: You are in for a huge disappointment from Mueller but Trump IS fixing the mess. Sure. He has already indicted a Trump campaign manager and a Trump National Security Advisor. But I’m sure your guy is completely innocent, messianic even. I’m sure I’ll be crying in my cereal soon. Wait, I don’t eat cereal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said: Sure. He has already indicted a Trump campaign manager and a Trump National Security Advisor. But I’m sure your guy is completely innocent, messianic even. I’m sure I’ll be crying in my cereal soon. Wait, I don’t eat cereal. No one ever said everyone in Trump's campaign was innocent as pure snow. Same goes for the Hillary campaign. There have been indictments but no convictions to date in either camp. But Mueller was set up to look for Russian collusion. He found NONE so now he is desperate to find anything. He isn't going to find anything on Trump that will pass muster to a jury. But the DOJ IG report on the FBI coming out June 14 will be interesting. You really should just take a valium, relax, give up your hate for Trump and accept he is going to be President for at least 3 1/2 more years. Seriously, try to get Trump off your mind 24/7 and enjoy good times with your family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,354 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 13 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said: You’re dancing around the question. Jesus’ purpose was also to set an example that Christians are supposed to follow. I’m not talking about Trump witnessing to porn stars. I’m talking about Christians who support Trump, period. If that’s so bad, how is it reconciled from a Biblical perspective in light of those who Jesus associated himself with? "Oh look, the town morons are playing with themselves again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said: No one ever said everyone in Trump's campaign was innocent as pure snow. Same goes for the Hillary campaign. There have been indictments but no convictions to date in either camp. But Mueller was set up to look for Russian collusion. He found NONE so now he is desperate to find anything. He isn't going to find anything on Trump that will pass muster to a jury. But the DOJ IG report on the FBI coming out June 14 will be interesting. You really should just take a valium, relax, give up your hate for Trump and accept he is going to be President for at least 3 1/2 more years. Seriously, try to get Trump off your mind 24/7 and enjoy good times with your family. How do you know Mueller has found nothing when the investigation is ongoing? He isn’t going to find anything on Trump to pass muster? Have you researched Trump’s past at all? He is a criminal. I appreciate your concern for my health, but I wish you had concern for all the people like my children who have pre-existing conditions that can possibly be denied health coverage thanks to Trump’s policies. My child’s life depends on decisions he makes so if you think for one second that my concern over this is worthy of your snarky comments then that tells me all I need to know about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumps 3,693 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 3 hours ago, GiveEmElle said: In my opinion the church supported Trump over Clinton because they only see two biblical issues, homosexuality and abortion. And Trump recognized that and shifted his rhetoric. Remember when he that women who get an abortion should be punished? Christians lapped that up. So in that sense Trump was more supportive of what the church wants- limited rights for homosexuals and abortion clinics shut down- he was their guy even if they had to excuse personal conduct that went against their own beliefs. That was my only point: Trump, in my opinion, was more likely than was Mrs. Clinton to support issues important to the church. If that is the case, then it makes perfect sense for the church that candidate. There does not have to be an evil motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Proud Tiger said: No one ever said everyone in Trump's campaign was innocent as pure snow. Same goes for the Hillary campaign. There have been indictments but no convictions to date in either camp. But Mueller was set up to look for Russian collusion. He found NONE so now he is desperate to find anything. He isn't going to find anything on Trump that will pass muster to a jury. But the DOJ IG report on the FBI coming out June 14 will be interesting. You really should just take a valium, relax, give up your hate for Trump and accept he is going to be President for at least 3 1/2 more years. Seriously, try to get Trump off your mind 24/7 and enjoy good times with your family. Um, not sure if you understand the law, but there absolutely have been convictions. Papadopoulos, Gates, and Flynn have all pleaded guilty. That's an automatic conviction my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Grumps said: That was my only point: Trump, in my opinion, was more likely than was Mrs. Clinton to support issues important to the church. If that is the case, then it makes perfect sense for the church that candidate. There does not have to be an evil motive. But when the candidate that you chose to push your anti homosexual and anti abortion issue is a person who has no regard for Christian values in his personal life and public life, it is detrimental to the message of the church about living a Christ like life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumps 3,693 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said: But when the candidate that you chose to push your anti homosexual and anti abortion issue is a person who has no regard for Christian values in his personal life and public life, it is detrimental to the message of the church about living a Christ like life. I agree with you that it is detrimental to the message of the church. Supporting neither candidate would have probably been better than supporting the one who was more likely to help the cause of the church in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, Grumps said: I agree with you that it is detrimental to the message of the church. Supporting neither candidate would have probably been better than supporting the one who was more likely to help the cause of the church in this case. I just see so many more biblical issues that Christians could pursue politically other than homosexuality and abortion. People live in America who are homeless and hungry, people live without basic healthcare and elderly people are choosing between paying for medicine or paying their bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFAN78 3,890 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 This thread........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevon67 2,368 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 16 hours ago, GiveEmElle said: I’m going to share something extremely personal as an illustration. I’ll probsbly regret it because somebody on the right will be an ass about it. Have you ever heard of Paul’s teachings against being a stumbling block? When I was around the age of 12 I was sexually assaulted by a group of boys. It took a long time for me to overcome the fear that was a result of that experience. Fast forward years later to a candidate that says “you can do whatever you want, grab the by the *****.” I’m sitting in church and my pastor vocally supported this man. My deacons vocally supported him. They supported a man who committed acts just like the assault I experienced. It was heart wrenching and the messsge it sent was that my church leaders wouldn’t support victims but rather they’d support a man who was a sexual assaulter. Yes, Jesus associated with sinners but he was never a stumbling block. So I hope that answers your question. Sorry you had to go through that Elle.....I cant imagine how difficult that was for you at such a young age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, kevon67 said: Sorry you had to go through that Elle.....I cant imagine how difficult that was for you at such a young age. Thank you Kevon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 5 hours ago, GiveEmElle said: Is your question not how Christians supporting him casts a bad light on Christianity? Perhaps you aren’t familiar with Christianity? I’m not sure there are many more ways I can explain that supporting him was going against many Christian beliefs. Again I’ll use my own experiences. My former pastor went ballistic when the transgender bathroom issues was settled. He preached a sermon on sexual immorality. Then he supported a sexually immoral candidate. My Christian best friend confronted a teenage boy for slapping her daughter on the rear at a football game then voted for a man who said you could grab women by the *****. Her Christian sister says women should dress modestly if they don’t want to get raped then praises a First Lady who was a nude model for being classy. The sins that Christians stood against in daily life, they supported in Trump. And yes, some of his policies are at odds with the Bible. Immigration for one. Leviticus tells Christians how to treat the immigrant. And I can promise you there is nothing in there about separating children from their mothers and throwing them in cages. And it’s not just policy but it’s his overall boorish behavior. He is unkind, where the Bible commands kindness. When you heard for eight years Christians saying we needed a godly president, then you see those same people vote for an ungodly one, the hypocrisy is glaring. I am a Christian. The examples you’re using don’t really move the needle. If Christian’s a wrong for supporting Trump (not by celebrating his sins), then you cannot maintain that Jesus was not also wrong, nor the theological giants that have gone before us. They associated with the lowest of the low and the most vile. It just seems that your answers are assuming “support” means “celebration of sin.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 3 hours ago, homersapien said: "Oh look, the town morons are playing with themselves again." A quote I actually modified and stole from you. Bahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,354 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: A quote I actually modified and stole from you. Bahahaha Figures. You are well on the way to being a lawyer. Lawyer for Christ! Bahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: I am a Christian. The examples you’re using don’t really move the needle. If Christian’s a wrong for supporting Trump (not by celebrating his sins), then you cannot maintain that Jesus was not also wrong, nor the theological giants that have gone before us. They associated with the lowest of the low and the most vile. It just seems that your answers are assuming “support” means “celebration of sin.” I’m not going to compare apples to oranges. The Christian Church has had a message that we need to elect godly candidates then they threw support behind a man who is ungodly and said it was ok. It’s the hypocrisy that’s the issue. And their hypocrisy has damaged their message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,354 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: I am a Christian. The examples you’re using don’t really move the needle. If Christian’s a wrong for supporting Trump (not by celebrating his sins), then you cannot maintain that Jesus was not also wrong, nor the theological giants that have gone before us. They associated with the lowest of the low and the most vile. It just seems that your answers are assuming “support” means “celebration of sin.” The Counselor is also a Pharasee! Who'da thunk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,471 Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 The Christian Trump supporters are the only ones that haven’t clued in to how much their support has damaged their witness and made any efforts at evangelism a lot harder. It will take many years to recover if it ever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,813 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 3:03 PM, Proud Tiger said: Personally I would be careful about defining who is a "real Christian." Takes a lot of ego to claim that capability. I doubt God would be pleased with anyone assuming they have such ability. It is more often obvious who isn’t. 15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.16 By their fruit you will recognize them.Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 4 hours ago, homersapien said: Figures. You are well on the way to being a lawyer. Lawyer for Christ! Bahahahahaha Weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 3 hours ago, homersapien said: The Counselor is also a Pharasee! Who'da thunk? Your jokes would be funnier if you knew how to spell. That’s embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 4 hours ago, GiveEmElle said: I’m not going to compare apples to oranges. The Christian Church has had a message that we need to elect godly candidates then they threw support behind a man who is ungodly and said it was ok. It’s the hypocrisy that’s the issue. And their hypocrisy has damaged their message. But I’m sure you would’ve been more than happy to congratulate them if they rallied behind the other candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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