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Messianism: Not just for Obamaphiles anymore!


TitanTiger

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1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

It is more often obvious who isn’t.

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.16 By their fruit you will recognize them.Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

 

That verse is about false teachers that tried to thwart Jesus’ followers while he was on earth and the one’s that would come after. Try incorporating proper exegesis and hermeneutics when you throw out scripture at whim.

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2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

The Christian Trump supporters are the only ones that haven’t clued in to how much their support has damaged their witness and made any efforts at evangelism a lot harder.  It will take many years to recover if it ever happens. 

So if I’m a Christian and I support Trump’s presidency and believe he is doing a good job, I’ve somehow “made efforts at evangelism a lot harder?” (As if the success of evangelism depends upon fallen sinners in the first place). That’s hogwash. I can’t help it that people don’t like Trump because of his personal flaws, and he has many. I sure don’t celebrate his sins or anyone’s. Rulers are in unique positions. It’s exactly why Paul encouraged Timothy, not to publicly denounce kings, but to pray for them constantly.

Also, the Bible doesn’t categorize sin. We are all equally guilty, per what the Bible teaches. Further, if we are to “not support” Trump on the basis of his sin/bad acts, then how do we reconcile that with the Great Commission? How do we reach people, such as Trump, if we must adamantly rebuke them in the same manner as some wish Christians who support Trump would do (towards Trump)?

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2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

The Christian Trump supporters are the only ones that haven’t clued in to how much their support has damaged their witness and made any efforts at evangelism a lot harder.  It will take many years to recover if it ever happens. 

Biggest BS ever posted here. And you are so good as to be the judge of other Christians?

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9 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

How do you know Mueller has found nothing when the investigation is ongoing? He isn’t going to find anything on Trump to pass muster? Have you researched Trump’s past at all? He is a criminal. 

I appreciate your concern for my health, but I wish you had concern for all the people like my children who have pre-existing conditions that can possibly be denied health coverage thanks to Trump’s policies. My child’s life depends on decisions he makes so if you think for one second that my concern over this is worthy of your snarky comments then that tells me all I need to know about you. 

 

I tried to make a positive suggestion and you take it as snarky. That confirms what I already suspected of you.

I love children, including yours. I hope they get the medical help they need. I have a great grandson with a serious  issue so I can relate. All I tried to say was quit letting your anger get in the way of taking any positive time with your family. If it's impossible for you to be civil here then so be it. Life will go on.

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38 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Biggest BS ever posted here. And you are so good as to be the judge of other Christians?

I'm not judging you.  I'm telling you how your unflagging support looks to those outside church.  The damage done to Christian witness everywhere is immeasurable.

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1 hour ago, NolaAuTiger said:

So if I’m a Christian and I support Trump’s presidency and believe he is doing a good job, I’ve somehow “made efforts at evangelism a lot harder?” (As if the success of evangelism depends upon fallen sinners in the first place).

Yes.  "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you" (Romans 2:24) is as apt a verse for this time as any ever uttered.  

While it may not "depend" upon fallen sinners, Christians do have a part.  Don't act like you don't understand the concept of a non-believer being hardened against the call of the Gospel because of what they've seen from Christians.  

 

1 hour ago, NolaAuTiger said:

That’s hogwash. I can’t help it that people don’t like Trump because of his personal flaws, and he has many. I sure don’t celebrate his sins or anyone’s. Rulers are in unique positions. It’s exactly why Paul encouraged Timothy, not to publicly denounce kings, but to pray for them constantly.

Also, the Bible doesn’t categorize sin. We are all equally guilty, per what the Bible teaches. Further, if we are to “not support” Trump on the basis of his sin/bad acts, then how do we reconcile that with the Great Commission? How do we reach people, such as Trump, if we must adamantly rebuke them in the same manner as some wish Christians who support Trump would do (towards Trump)?

This isn't a hard concept to grasp.  For example, there were people who were turned off from Christianity when the Catholic priest sexual abuse scandal happened.  Obviously those who were the victims would be damaged.  But what made things and affected the witness of Christians everywhere toward those who weren't believers - the way the church handled it.  The lying, the shuffling around of priests to other parishes where they abused again.  Our behavior does matter.  What we support matters.  

You can rationalize and parse all you want about how you can support him as president but not his personal actions, but no one outside of Trump voters buys it.  And those outside the faith see it as hypocrisy.  Trust me.  I've had the conversation.  I've asked them to be honest with me.  They cannot fathom that someone who expresses such contempt and objectification of women would find favor of any sort with people who've claimed to honor women.  I've offered the explanations that people have told me for why they did it.  They aren't buying it and they don't want to hear anything about how morals matter, about how character matters, about how important marriage is.  None of it.  That group has lost all credibility with them.

You can reach someone like Trump without putting him in the highest office in the land.  It's ludicrous to equate reaching Trump with voting for him.  

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11 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm not judging you.  I'm telling you how your unflagging support looks to those outside church.  The damage done to Christian witness everywhere is immeasurable.

No. It is not Titan.....................and that is all I have to say about the about that.

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2 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

No. It is not Titan.....................and that is all I have to say about the about that.

Yes.  It is.

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44 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Yes.  "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you" (Romans 2:24) is as apt a verse for this time as any ever uttered.  

While it may not "depend" upon fallen sinners, Christians do have a part.  Don't act like you don't understand the concept of a non-believer being hardened against the call of the Gospel because of what they've seen from Christians.  

 

This isn't a hard concept to grasp.  For example, there were people who were turned off from Christianity when the Catholic priest sexual abuse scandal happened.  Obviously those who were the victims would be damaged.  But what made things and affected the witness of Christians everywhere toward those who weren't believers - the way the church handled it.  The lying, the shuffling around of priests to other parishes where they abused again.  Our behavior does matter.  What we support matters.  

You can rationalize and parse all you want about how you can support him as president but not his personal actions, but no one outside of Trump voters buys it.  And those outside the faith see it as hypocrisy.  Trust me.  I've had the conversation.  I've asked them to be honest with me.  They cannot fathom that someone who expresses such contempt and objectification of women would find favor of any sort with people who've claimed to honor women.  I've offered the explanations that people have told me for why they did it.  They aren't buying it and they don't want to hear anything about how morals matter, about how character matters, about how important marriage is.  None of it.  That group has lost all credibility with them.

You can reach someone like Trump without putting him in the highest office in the land.  It's ludicrous to equate reaching Trump with voting for him.  

Christian dogmatics have never supported sin, period. Nor do they now. 

So everyone who supports Trump also endorses adultery and said support equates to blasphemy? My goodness that’s ludicrous. You sound insane. 

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1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

No. It is not Titan.....................and that is all I have to say about the about that.

I'm one of those looking in from outside the church and Titan is 100% correct.  You're speaking as someone from the inside.  Take time to talk to folks like me and you may have an understanding that yes, many of us outside the church have a hard time understanding the mental gymnastics used for this president.  I've heard from some Christians in my personal life tell me that they believe Trump was sent by God to save the US.  I'm sorry, but that looks awful to me and others who see his actions being far from what we perceive to be  and have been told is a good representation of the Christian walk.

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7 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

I’m not going to compare apples to oranges. The Christian Church has had a message that we need to elect godly candidates then they threw support behind a man who is ungodly and said it was ok. It’s the hypocrisy that’s the issue. And their hypocrisy has damaged their message. 

And if they elected Hildabeast all would be well?  Laughable.

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51 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

I'm one of those looking in from outside the church and Titan is 100% correct.  You're speaking as someone from the inside.  Take time to talk to folks like me and you may have an understanding that yes, many of us outside the church have a hard time understanding the mental gymnastics used for this president.  I've heard from some Christians in my personal life tell me that they believe Trump was sent by God to save the US.  I'm sorry, but that looks awful to me and others who see his actions being far from what we perceive to be  and have been told is a good representation of the Christian walk.

Did Salty say that? Do you impute to him everything you hear from another self-proclaimed Christian? Perhaps that’s the issue.....

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1 hour ago, AUFAN78 said:

And if they elected Hildabeast all would be well?  Laughable.

You’re the one obsessing over someone not in the discussion.

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3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm not judging you.  I'm telling you how your unflagging support looks to those outside church.  The damage done to Christian witness everywhere is immeasurable.

Given the choice, I am not buying what you are selling.  

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2 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

And if they elected Hildabeast all would be well?  Laughable.

I wouldn’t have to be worried about my teen daughter losing healthcare because she has a pre-existing condition.

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4 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

I tried to make a positive suggestion and you take it as snarky. That confirms what I already suspected of you.

I love children, including yours. I hope they get the medical help they need. I have a great grandson with a serious  issue so I can relate. All I tried to say was quit letting your anger get in the way of taking any positive time with your family. If it's impossible for you to be civil here then so be it. Life will go on.

You don’t know anything about my life. You don’t know what I do with my family or even if I have one outside of the daughter I mentioned. You don’t know my interests, how I spend my time or anything else about me other than how I think politically. So you need not tell me what to do with my time. Do you understand? 

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4 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Did Salty say that? Do you impute to him everything you hear from another self-proclaimed Christian? Perhaps that’s the issue.....

Salty is a big boy and can feel free to clarify himself.  But from my interpretation of his very limited post in reaction to Titan's point, this was my response. 

And the "self-proclaimed Christians" you speak of are largely folks in my family.  They have been active church members for decades, including a pastor.

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7 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

You don’t know anything about my life. You don’t know what I do with my family or even if I have one outside of the daughter I mentioned. You don’t know my interests, how I spend my time or anything else about me other than how I think politically. So you need not tell me what to do with my time. Do you understand? 

I agree with your post. The funny thing is that you don't know any of our interests either, but you still have claimed to know how we should vote or how we should feel. What exactly makes you capable of knowing how I should live my life when none of us are capable of know how you should live yours?

 

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6 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Salty is a big boy and can feel free to clarify himself.  But from my interpretation of his very limited post in reaction to Titan's point, this was my response. 

And the "self-proclaimed Christians" you speak of are largely folks in my family.  They have been active church members for decades, including a pastor.

Right, but to impute to others what one Christian said... that’s what I am getting at. Christians don’t have one, objectified reason for voting one way or the other. Christianity as a whole doesn’t cast a ballot. It’s like saying that the teachings/sayings of “Christian Universalist” individuals (essentially they believe in heaven but reject the concept of hell, thus everyone goes to heaven and hence the term ‘universalist’) should be imputed to all other Christians as well. You’re a reasonable guy. Does that make sense? Again, Christians vote independently, not collectively. Sure, groups may share certain reasons in casting a vote (I.e., desiring a candidate who won’t make access to abortion easier), but surely we are competent enough not impute one individual’s reasoning to all others on the basis of a shared profession of faith. 

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9 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

You don’t know anything about my life. You don’t know what I do with my family or even if I have one outside of the daughter I mentioned. You don’t know my interests, how I spend my time or anything else about me other than how I think politically. So you need not tell me what to do with my time. Do you understand? 

One thing I do understand very clear. You are so full of anger it is impossible to even try to be civil with you. But you are right.......how you choose to live your life and who you choose to like is your choice. Works both ways. Have a blessed day.

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25 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Right, but to impute to others what one Christian said... that’s what I am getting at. Christians don’t have one, objectified reason for voting one way or the other. Christianity as a whole doesn’t cast a ballot. It’s like saying that the teachings/sayings of “Christian Universalist” individuals (essentially they believe in heaven but reject the concept of hell, thus everyone goes to heaven and hence the term ‘universalist’) should be imputed to all other Christians as well. You’re a reasonable guy. Does that make sense? Again, Christians vote independently, not collectively. Sure, groups may share certain reasons in casting a vote (I.e., desiring a candidate who won’t make access to abortion easier), but surely we are competent enough not impute one individual’s reasoning to all others on the basis of a shared profession of faith. 

Amen!!

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32 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Right, but to impute to others what one Christian said... that’s what I am getting at. Christians don’t have one, objectified reason for voting one way or the other. Christianity as a whole doesn’t cast a ballot. It’s like saying that the teachings/sayings of “Christian Universalist” individuals (essentially they believe in heaven but reject the concept of hell, thus everyone goes to heaven and hence the term ‘universalist’) should be imputed to all other Christians as well. You’re a reasonable guy. Does that make sense? Again, Christians vote independently, not collectively. Sure, groups may share certain reasons in casting a vote (I.e., desiring a candidate who won’t make access to abortion easier), but surely we are competent enough not impute one individual’s reasoning to all others on the basis of a shared profession of faith. 

You're talking about something COMPLETELY different than what Titan is talking about.  He was talking about how the support of some Christians and reconciliation/excusing of Trump's actions has affected how non-Christians view the church/religion.  Has nothing to do with voting.

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2 hours ago, Grumps said:

I agree with your post. The funny thing is that you don't know any of our interests either, but you still have claimed to know how we should vote or how we should feel. What exactly makes you capable of knowing how I should live my life when none of us are capable of know how you should live yours?

 

I’m absolutely certain I have never told anyone how to live their lives here. If you interpret my opinions and view expressed here as me directing you how to live, well that’s your problem. But yes, I think people who voted for Trump were wrong. He has alienated our allies at the G7 and is quite frankly an ass. He isn’t a leader or even a good human being. He has no respect for rule of law and is systematically destroying democracy. And people chose that. 

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40 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

One thing I do understand very clear. You are so full of anger it is impossible to even try to be civil with you. But you are right.......how you choose to live your life and who you choose to like is your choice. Works both ways. Have a blessed day.

Put me on the ignore list then.

I’m not going to smile and happy dance while immigrant children are ripped from their mothers and thrown in cages. I’m not going to praise a party who gives massive tax cuts to wealthy corporations while cutting CHIP funding that provides healthcare for children. I’m not going to be proud of a president who attacks the free press and the justice department. So if my anger at these issues offends you, then by all means feel free to not respond to me. 

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