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The Singapore Summit


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I would like to ask your thoughts on the agreement today.  I don't care if you're a Conservative, Liberal, or Centrist/Moderate, I really am interested to hear your opinions. And if we can keep it civil, that would be great, because I want to be able to hear/read what each of you think without casting dispersions/judgements.  

I live in Virginia, but am an Alabama native.  There is an opinion here, but I really would like to hear what people outside of this region are thinking.

Thanks! I look forward to reading what you have to say.

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I think it was a historic moment for these two to meet face to face. I think most people agree that serious diplomacy is better than conflict. The summit resulted in a signed agreement for NK to denuclearize. This is at least a first step but Trump made it clear that we won't drop sanctions until a final agreement is signed, complete with the all important verification process. Hopefully talks and efforts will continue to make this happen. Even if it never does nothing has been lost by us and it's more than several previous administrations have accomplished. I would also point that a little publicized result was for the known remains of U.S. soldiers killed in the Korean War will now be returned. This is certainly a big deal for their families.

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53 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I think it was a historic moment for these two to meet face to face. I think most people agree that serious diplomacy is better than conflict. The summit resulted in a signed agreement for NK to denuclearize. This is at least a first step but Trump made it clear that we won't drop sanctions until a final agreement is signed, complete with the all important verification process. Hopefully talks and efforts will continue to make this happen. Even if it never does nothing has been lost by us and it's more than several previous administrations have accomplished. I would also point that a little publicized result was for the known remains of U.S. soldiers killed in the Korean War will now be returned. This is certainly a big deal for their families.

True..but don't count on hearing anything positive from the national media.....and don't count on the pols in DC waiting to find out the details before criticizing.    I'm thinking to give NK the same deal we gave Iran and the Dems will be eager to approve it. 

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Since the Korean War our Presidents have tried diplomacy without ever meeting with the North Korean Leader face to face.  It has never worked.  Why not try something different?  I would venture to say that if we gave the North Koreans the same deal we gave Iran the Dems would criticize it just because it was proposed by President Trump. Very sad indeed.

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1 hour ago, Proud Tiger said:

I think it was a historic moment for these two to meet face to face. I think most people agree that serious diplomacy is better than conflict. The summit resulted in a signed agreement for NK to denuclearize. This is at least a first step but Trump made it clear that we won't drop sanctions until a final agreement is signed, complete with the all important verification process. Hopefully talks and efforts will continue to make this happen. Even if it never does nothing has been lost by us and it's more than several previous administrations have accomplished. I would also point that a little publicized result was for the known remains of U.S. soldiers killed in the Korean War will now be returned. This is certainly a big deal for their families.

"Historic" will be decided with time. While I have hope, I'll await before declaring a U.S. victory. But I am very, very hopeful. 

Overall, I agree with your sentiment. 

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14 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

"Historic" will be decided with time. While I have hope, I'll await before declaring a U.S. victory. But I am very, very hopeful. 

Overall, I agree with your sentiment. 

Hope it was better then when Khrushchev and Kennedy met in Vienna Summit 1961 and I am a fan of JFK but he missed the boat on this 

frustrated stephen colbert GIF

Image result for kennedy meet khrushchev

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4 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Even if it never does nothing has been lost by us

Other than giving the guy a "world stage" according to the media. I would think you are already on the stage when you are firing missiles over Japan. have not heard any rumblings of that lately and be very interesting if we do. President Trump did ok with the Singapore thing IMO. "Historical" only time will tell.

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51 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Other than giving the guy a "world stage" according to the media. I would think you are already on the stage when you are firing missiles over Japan. have not heard any rumblings of that lately and be very interesting if we do. President Trump did ok with the Singapore thing IMO. "Historical" only time will tell.

I say it's historical in the sense that I think it is the first time a POTUS has met with the ruling dictator of NK going back to the end of WW2 or maybe even before.

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Some random thoughts:

- It's not really an accomplishment to get the North Koreans to meet face to face.  It's something they've been trying to do for decades.  

- So far it seems like we offered up a whole lot more in concessions, including some that shouldn't even be on the table (such as the end of US presence on the peninsula), than we got in return.

- I'm hoping that it's not just another North Korean stall tactic where they make promises to get some relief from sanctions, make some superficial efforts at holding up their end of the bargain, then go back doing whatever they were doing before after getting a period of relief.

- I wish Trump would go into these things with a better sense of history instead of seeming to just 'wing it' like he does in business at times.

- Trump also needs to quit offering praise that is idiotic like how Kim "cares about his people."  It makes you look either utterly clueless or fake.

- If something real and substantial toward NK becoming a normal country and not a threat happens, I'll be happy as a clam.

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18 hours ago, gulftiger66 said:

Since the Korean War our Presidents have tried diplomacy without ever meeting with the North Korean Leader face to face.  It has never worked.  Why not try something different?  I would venture to say that if we gave the North Koreans the same deal we gave Iran the Dems would criticize it just because it was proposed by President Trump. Very sad indeed.

Try us.  ;)

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18 hours ago, AU64 said:

True..but don't count on hearing anything positive from the national media.....and don't count on the pols in DC waiting to find out the details before criticizing.    I'm thinking to give NK the same deal we gave Iran and the Dems will be eager to approve it. 

What details? :dunno:

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18 hours ago, kevon67 said:

North Korea destroying one of its test sites was a start.?

Their test site had already collapsed. 

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21 hours ago, Mid Atlantic Tiger said:

I would like to ask your thoughts on the agreement today.  I don't care if you're a Conservative, Liberal, or Centrist/Moderate, I really am interested to hear your opinions. And if we can keep it civil, that would be great, because I want to be able to hear/read what each of you think without casting dispersions/judgements.  

I live in Virginia, but am an Alabama native.  There is an opinion here, but I really would like to hear what people outside of this region are thinking.

Thanks! I look forward to reading what you have to say.

 I would now like to hear your opinion.

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Well, hell.  If this doesn't deserve a Nobel peace prize, what does? :dunno:

 

Donald Trump got little of substance out of his summit with Kim Jong Un. But that didn’t stop him from making a triumphant, demonstrably false claim about how things went. Trump declared in an early-morning tweet that North Korea’s threat to America has been somehow neutralized altogether: “There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea.”

In reality, Trump returned to America from the Singapore meeting having secured only a vague promise, not unlike others the North Koreans have broken in the past, about working toward the goal of denuclearization. Yet North Korea has just as many nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and nuclear facilities and personnel, and precisely as much fissile material, as before Trump and Kim shook hands and signed a document in which North Korea vowed to “work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula.”

Not only that, but the North Koreans have come away from the summit with a much more immediate pledge from the president to suspend U.S.-South Korea military exercises that the North has long viewed as a threat. The North Koreans may view their denuclearization commitment as a pie-in-the-sky pledge to give up their nuclear weapons once the nuclear-armed United States withdraws its protection for South Korea and ceases all hostile behavior toward North Korea. The statement they endorsed includes no details on how denuclearization will be implemented, how long it will take, or even what first moves the North will make toward that objective.
 
Read the rest at:
 
Always pushing his BS.  :no:
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I would have to agree, but it's not like there wasn't close competition: 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/trumps-effusive-unsettling-flattery-of-kim-jong-un/562619/

Monday evening, as Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un met in Singapore, ABC briefly preempted its popular show The Bachelorette to convey the important news. Some viewers were miffed, but they might have noticed some similarities between the two shows, from the pageantry to the semi-scripted, uncanny quasi-reality. And then there was President Trump himself, who, in his comments following his meetings with the North Korean supreme leader, sounded like a smitten contestant on the dating show.

It was an “honor” to meet Kim, Trump said. What surprised the American most about his counterpart? “Great personality and very smart—good combination,” he said. “I learned that he’s a very talented man. I also learned that he loves his country very much.” He added that Kim was “a worthy negotiator … a very worthy, very smart negotiator.” The president continued to gush during a press conference and in interviews.

“His country does love him,” he said. “His people, you see the fervor. They have a great fervor. They’re gonna put it together, and I think they’re going to end up with a very strong country, and a country which has people—that they’re so hard working, so industrious.”

It is true that when a ruler has a history of ordering summary executions, his lackeys tend to emote great respect and work hard. Nonetheless, Trump said, “I do trust him, yeah. … He trusts me, I believe, I really do.”

Amidst these comments, Trump also fell back into his old real-estate developer shtick. “They have great beaches,” he said of North Korea. “You see that whenever they’re exploding their cannons into the ocean. I said, ‘Boy, look at the view. Wouldn’t that make a great condo?’”

Trump’s flattery for Kim would have been notable in any case, but it stands in sharp relief to his remarks about Trudeau. Immediately before flying to Singapore, Trump was in Canada for the G7 meeting, where he clashed with the leaders of America’s closest allies over trade. The president had initially planned to sign a joint statement that emerged from the meeting, but changed his mind after hearing Trudeau criticize newly levied American tariffs and say he would stand up for Canada.

On Twitter, Trump blasted Trudeau for making “false statements” and called him “Very dishonest & weak.” Another aide said that there is “a special place in hell” for the Canadian. Astonishingly, however, Trump continued to attack Trudeau during his post–Singapore-summit press conference, in the same breath that he praised Kim. “I actually like Justin, you know, I think he’s good, I like him, but he shouldn't have done that,” Trump said. “That was a mistake. That’s going to cost him a lot of money.”

Trudeau’s sin, to recap, is retaliating against punitive and possibly illegal tariffs on his country, which he was democratically elected to lead. (Ironically, he, like Kim, leads a nation that his father also led.) Kim, on the other hand, is a repressive, unelected dictator who has menaced the world and particularly the U.S. with a nuclear-weapons program. In return, he received a glitzy summit and a shower of praise from Trump.

At one point during the summit, the two leaders went for a stroll on a breezeway. The North Korean turned to the American and remarked, “Many people in the world will think of this as a … form of fantasy.” Certainly, Trump’s flurry of flattery must have been a fantasy come true for Kim. If diplomatic summits ended with a rose ceremony like The Bachelorette, Kim would be headed back to Pyongyang with bloom in hand.

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More competitors:

https://www.thecut.com/2018/06/best-quotes-trump-kim-singapore-summit.html

What prison camps? Trump went on to praise the North Korea leader:

“Anybody that takes over a situation like he did at 26 years of age and is able to run it and run it tough. I don’t say he was nice or say anything about it. He ran it, few people at that age — you could take one out of 10,000 could not do it.”

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7 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Some random thoughts:

- It's not really an accomplishment to get the North Koreans to meet face to face.  It's something they've been trying to do for decades.  

- So far it seems like we offered up a whole lot more in concessions, including some that shouldn't even be on the table (such as the end of US presence on the peninsula), than we got in return.

- I'm hoping that it's not just another North Korean stall tactic where they make promises to get some relief from sanctions, make some superficial efforts at holding up their end of the bargain, then go back doing whatever they were doing before after getting a period of relief.

- I wish Trump would go into these things with a better sense of history instead of seeming to just 'wing it' like he does in business at times.

- Trump also needs to quit offering praise that is idiotic like how Kim "cares about his people."  It makes you look either utterly clueless or fake.

- If something real and substantial toward NK becoming a normal country and not a threat happens, I'll be happy as a clam.

Couldn't have said it any better.

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6 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

 I would now like to hear your opinion.

Thanks PT.  I appreciate reading everything that has been said here.

My thoughts:  Peace is in the best interest of all concerned.  I want to be optimistic, and I truly hope that good comes from this.

But we got nothing from this.  Nothing. We gave them two major things that they desperately wanted for years:  Recognition by the leader of our country, and got our forces out of the war games.  

We got them to agree to the same thing they have agreed to since 1992:  no nuclear escalation on the peninsula, which they have spat on since 1992.  The North Koreans are very good at talking, and doing something totally opposite. 

If you are really a great negotiator, you don't give everything and gain zilch.  But that is just me.  And, as a friend of mine, who is a Republican lobbyist in DC said at lunch today, if you're China, you really have got to be feeling good this week after this summit and the G-8...

This NK leader is a murderer, has starved his people, has depleted the country's resources,  has lied to us repeatedly, and our President just whole heartedly believes this is a done deal.  Color me Missouri...

Again, I hope that my fears are dashed and this leads to something good, because, like anyone, I want peace. and I want a de-militarization, and to bring our people home.

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15 minutes ago, Mid Atlantic Tiger said:

Thanks PT.  I appreciate reading everything that has been said here.

My thoughts:  Peace is in the best interest of all concerned.  I want to be optimistic, and I truly hope that good comes from this.

But we got nothing from this.  Nothing. We gave them two major things that they desperately wanted for years:  Recognition by the leader of our country, and got our forces out of the war games.  

We got them to agree to the same thing they have agreed to since 1992:  no nuclear escalation on the peninsula, which they have spat on since 1992.  The North Koreans are very good at talking, and doing something totally opposite. 

If you are really a great negotiator, you don't give everything and gain zilch.  But that is just me.  And, as a friend of mine, who is a Republican lobbyist in DC said at lunch today, if you're China, you really have got to be feeling good this week after this summit and the G-8...

This NK leader is a murderer, has starved his people, has depleted the country's resources,  has lied to us repeatedly, and our President just whole heartedly believes this is a done deal.  Color me Missouri...

Again, I hope that my fears are dashed and this leads to something good, because, like anyone, I want peace. and I want a de-militarization, and to bring our people home.

We disagree but great discussion. I would note that one of the major things you mention we lost was ending the war games. Trump said today that was not the case at this point in the discussions. The real point is I think we both hope for the same end result.

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11 minutes ago, Mid Atlantic Tiger said:

Thanks PT.  There isn't a topic that can't be discussed like gentlemen.

I thought that "No more expensive war games during negotiations" meant just that....

  This with his favorite "Journalist"...

I for sure agree with your comment in red but that isn't always the case in this so-called AU Family.

I may have misunderstood but I think he said on a later interview with Bret Baier on AF One that they wouldn't be suspended as long as negotiations were going on

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17 hours ago, Mid Atlantic Tiger said:

Thanks PT.  I appreciate reading everything that has been said here.

My thoughts:  Peace is in the best interest of all concerned.  I want to be optimistic, and I truly hope that good comes from this.

But we got nothing from this.  Nothing. We gave them two major things that they desperately wanted for years:  Recognition by the leader of our country, and got our forces out of the war games.  

We got them to agree to the same thing they have agreed to since 1992:  no nuclear escalation on the peninsula, which they have spat on since 1992.  The North Koreans are very good at talking, and doing something totally opposite. 

If you are really a great negotiator, you don't give everything and gain zilch.  But that is just me.  And, as a friend of mine, who is a Republican lobbyist in DC said at lunch today, if you're China, you really have got to be feeling good this week after this summit and the G-8...

This NK leader is a murderer, has starved his people, has depleted the country's resources,  has lied to us repeatedly, and our President just whole heartedly believes this is a done deal.  Color me Missouri...

Again, I hope that my fears are dashed and this leads to something good, because, like anyone, I want peace. and I want a de-militarization, and to bring our people home.

This sums up my thoughts quite nicely. I'm skeptical at best about what all this eventually leads to, but honestly, I'm a "go for diplomacy first" person. So I'm fine with having the meeting, I just wish there was some consistency for folks on both sides. I was also fine with President Obama meeting with Cuba and loosening restrictions (I wish Congress would act there and let us just have some real trade with them by allowing our banks to do business there). I was also ok with the Iran deal. I thought it was as good as we could have gotten at the time. I fear though that we will be allowing them to now move full steam ahead on a nuclear program now that we have withdrawn from the deal.

But, the breaking news out of Israel only solidifies my skepticism of the NK talks. Axios just reported:

"...from Israel's foreign ministry raises doubts over President Trump's optimistic statements about his summit with Kim Jong-un, and determines the U.S. retreated from its positions on several issues relating to North Korea's nuclear program."

Two main points:

"Regardless of the smiles in the summit many in Japan, South Korea and the U.S. Congress doubt that North Korea is sincere in its intentions. Our assessment is that regardless of President Trump's statements about quick changes that are expected in North Korean policy, the road the real and substantive change, if it ever happens, will be long and slow."

LINK

 

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I don't mind the meeting at all and certainly want diplomacy first.  I do mind Trump supporters acting like it was some grand accomplishment by Trump to make it happen.  It wasn't.  It's something NK has been wishing for and striving to get for decades now.  In their mind, it legitimizes their regime and puts them on an even playing field from a PR standpoint.

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