The Texas Talent Debate

[LKEEL75 2,566]

4 minutes ago, AlaskanFAN said:

This

And this 

Allen’s Eagle Stadium Is Set To Officially Reopen On Friday

The most expensive high school football stadium in the world gets a triumphant return after its embarrassing closure in 2014.

BYDAN SOLOMON

DATEAUGUST 27, 2015

SHARE

NOTES0 COMMENTS

 

Photo By Steven Leggett

The story of Allen’s Eagle Stadium has been one of excess and prosperity, disappointment and schadenfreude. The most expensive high school stadium in the world opened in 2012 with no small amount of fanfare. But haters got an opportunity to indulge in some mean-spirited snark when the $60 million facility was forced to close in 2014 due to structural problems and cracks in the foundation. Suddenly, the pride of Allen—with its high-def Jumbotron, upper-deck seating, and Chick-Fil-A and BBQ vendors—was the city’s giant embarrassment.

 

WOW.  Our little town is struggling to come up with $5M to build a rec center.  

Can't hide money...

[bigbird 60,368]

4 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

IMO, the talent is Texas is second rate to the talent in the South East. (Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia and Florida) Hate to use this as an example but you don't see Saban making Texas a priority. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,127]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2016/6/28/12040586/rankings-state-stars-florida-texas-california

 

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/8/23/12607342/recruits-states-rankings

 

Based on what Big Bird Posted and what I posted about the Pro's Texas is a top notch talent area. I agree more teams from South East win championships but I think that has as much to do with coaches and talent dilution. Plus bama wins the great majority skewing it to South East but also recruits nationally. The Oklahoma team that spanked us two years a go had a large number of Texas kids. We have been burned by A&M receivers over the years also they have put quite a few O-Lineman and D-Lineman in the Pro's.

Oklahoma has spanked bama in the not to distant past also. UT should be a powerhouse but if you review they have not consistently been a top ten recuiter for a while.

 

https://n.rivals.com/news/rivals-top-50-recruiting-teams-of-the-past-five-years

Of the teams recruiting Texas A&M is best as 9th best recruiting team in country, then OK at 13th, and UT at 16th.

The number of teams recruiting Texas dilutes the talent.

Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, SMU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Arkansas, LSU  Then have a few players go to other states Arizona, California, Alabama and big ten schools. Back in the days when UT was relevant they got their pick in state then the rest got the pickins

 

[AuburnNTexas 7,127]

21 minutes ago, AlaskanFAN said:

This

And this 

Allen’s Eagle Stadium Is Set To Officially Reopen On Friday

The most expensive high school football stadium in the world gets a triumphant return after its embarrassing closure in 2014.

BYDAN SOLOMON

DATEAUGUST 27, 2015

SHARE

NOTES0 COMMENTS

Photo By Steven Leggett

The story of Allen’s Eagle Stadium has been one of excess and prosperity, disappointment and schadenfreude. The most expensive high school stadium in the world opened in 2012 with no small amount of fanfare. But haters got an opportunity to indulge in some mean-spirited snark when the $60 million facility was forced to close in 2014 due to structural problems and cracks in the foundation. Suddenly, the pride of Allen—with its high-def Jumbotron, upper-deck seating, and Chick-Fil-A and BBQ vendors—was the city’s giant embarrassment.

 

The architect and builder paid for all repairs and also paid for lost income. We host so many playoff games that teams pay to play in that we will pay off the bodns early. 

I cut and pasted this from wikipedia

New stadium

 

Eagle Stadium

Due to the program's popularity and student population, the school was authorized, via an approved April 2009 referendum, to build an 18,000 seat stadium (Allen Eagle Stadium) for the team. The stadium (which cost nearly $60 million) opened for the 2012 football season.^[12][13] It is the fifth largest high school stadium in the state, but the largest designed for the use of only one team. The new facility houses a weight room, wrestling practice facility, and indoor golfing facility.^[14]

On February 27, 2014, the stadium was closed due to cracking in concrete making it unsafe to use.^[15][16] The 2014 varsity football season played every game on the road, and still managed to go undefeated and win their third consecutive title earning the nickname "Road Warriors" by the local media.

After about $10 million in structural and design repairs by Pogue Construction and PBK (neither the district nor the Allen citizens having to pay anything extra), Allen's stadium was officially reopened on June 5, 2015, for its Class of 2015 graduation and allowed the varsity football team to once again host home games.

[Southwest 186]

Texas also produces more Heisman trophy winners than the southeastern states, only state comparable in my eyes is Florida. Let’s talk about Ga for one second as Elliot stated about relevance the dawgs haven’t been till what last year? So with all that talent Tech always abysmal and the state school have what 1 or 2 championships and always an underachiever. Nationally no one would state that Texas is overrated in talent but the few on this board.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

32 minutes ago, bigbird said:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2016/6/28/12040586/rankings-state-stars-florida-texas-california

 

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/8/23/12607342/recruits-states-rankings

 

Based on these numbers, when you go per capita the states are ranked as:

1. Georgia
2. Florida
3. Texas
4. California
5. Ohio

I guess the point is that Texas has a lot of talent, but they also have a lot of people which boosts their numbers.  Florida appears to be the most talent rich followed by Georgia.

[bigbird 60,368]

47 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Based on these numbers, when you go per capita the states are ranked as:

1. Georgia
2. Florida
3. Texas
4. California
5. Ohio

I guess the point is that Texas has a lot of talent, but they also have a lot of people which boosts their numbers.  Florida appears to be the most talent rich followed by Georgia.

~40% of the 4 and 5 stars come from Texas, Florida, and Cali.  To me that indicated that not only do they have the numbers, but they have the quality as well.

In the last 5 years the national percentage of elite talent 

Texas: 13.8%

Florida: 13.6%

Cali: 12%

Georgia: 8.5%

[aucanucktiger 1,789]

6 hours ago, ellitor said:

Would be a hard return on investment right now without AU consistently making the playoffs. You put out feelers & cherry pick as WDE just said.

Our return on investment is certainly more impressive than anything Texas has to offer lately.

[ellitor 33,062]

2 minutes ago, aucanucktiger said:

Our return on investment is certainly more impressive than anything Texas has to offer lately.

What I'm saying is the work needed to be put in at Texas relative to the commits we could get right now isn't worth the effort. At least not more than doing some cherry picking.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

15 minutes ago, bigbird said:

~40% of the 4 and 5 stars come from Texas, Florida, and Cali.  To me that indicated that not only do they have the numbers, but they have the quality as well.

In the last 5 years the national percentage of elite talent 

Texas: 13.8%

Florida: 13.6%

Cali: 12%

Georgia: 8.5%

Texas, Florida and California are also 3 of the 4 most populous states in the US (they make up 26% of the total population). Here's their percentage of the total population of the country:

California - 12.13%

Texas - 8.37%

Florida - 6.19%

Georgia - 3.16 %

Now take that against your numbers above. Georgia is the real super star state for churning out good players from the number of kids available to them. 1/4 the population of California but only 30% fewer elite players. Less than 1/2 the population of Texas but only 39% fewer elite players.

[bigbird 60,368]

7 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Texas, Florida and California are also 3 of the 4 most populous states in the US (they make up 26% of the total population). Here's their percentage of the total population of the country:

California - 12.13%

Texas - 8.37%

Florida - 6.19%

Georgia - 3.16 %

Now take that against your numbers above. Georgia is the real super star state for churning out good players from the number of kids available to them. 1/4 the population of California but only 30% fewer elite players. Less than 1/2 the population of Texas but only 39% fewer elite players.

Except recruiting isn't a percentage based game. Actual numbers are what matters. Texas, Florida, and Cali produce more elite players.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

Except recruiting isn't a percentage based game. Actual numbers are what matters. Texas, Florida, and Cali produce more elite players.

We should really be recruiting American Samoa more. I think like 70% of their kids play D1 football. 

[bigbird 60,368]

Just now, McLoofus said:

We should really be recruiting American Samoa more. I think like 70% of their kids play D1 football. 

Perfect!

[lionheartkc 6,150]

8 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Except recruiting isn't a percentage based game. Actual numbers are what matters. Texas, Florida, and Cali produce more elite players.

Because the have more people to produce them from.

What the numbers bear out is that, while the coaching in Texas and Florida is top notch, the coaches in Georgia are overachieving. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

We should really be recruiting American Samoa more. I think like 70% of their kids play D1 football. 

If that was true... which who knows, it might be, then yes, we should. I will say, I've never seen a Samoan on a football field that didn't impress me at least a little.

[Zeek 16,613]

2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

If that was true... which who knows, it might be, then yes, we should. I will say, I've never seen a Samoan on a football field that didn't impress me at least a little.

That and African princes lol

[DAG 33,955]

Should we prioritize Texas? No we do very well on the Southeastern border. Should we thumb our noses down at Texas talent? Heck no. They produce quality high school talent. They have some of the best high school football programs in the nation. Individually they are not overrated. There is a reason why they have a high volume of players in the NFL. As a college institution have they been overrated ? Yes because their outcome has not correlated with the talent they are bringing in. This does not mean the talent is overrated. People forget a lot of Oklahoma talent comes from Texas. The reigning heisman winner and #1 draft pick was a Texas high school product. 

If we are going based on how well the college institutions are performing then we definitely need to question California because none of their teams have been dominant in quite sometime. 

[augolf1716 21,096]

6 hours ago, bigbird said:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2016/6/28/12040586/rankings-state-stars-florida-texas-california

 

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/8/23/12607342/recruits-states-rankings

 

Dream on big boy

 

[Beaker 2,457]

I have a very different twist:

having had a son who played at a high level in TX and I grew up in FL, maybe this helps address "upside".

I believe the total upside on most kids in the SE is a lot higher.   In TX, it seems the programs that produce a lot of D1 talent have a ton of coaches and many are in affluent areas.  The kids have a lot of access to individual coaching for weightlifting/speed- agility (outside the program, during offseason at private trng facilities) along with nutrition programs.   There is almost no limit to the added 'help' these kids get.  Many kids are closer to D1-ready in HS.

Take the avg D1 talent in the Southeast, few programs have the enormous coaching staffs in TX ( I believe ) and many just don't have access to the nutritional programs and weightlifting/speed-agility programs...

If the kids are close to even as seniors in HS - 

Thus the upside on most SE players is probably higher.   If the kids are equal as seniors in HS, give me the kid with higher upside everytime.    

Look at the great talent U of TX gets, then compare those kids to UGA, Auburn, UF 4 yrs later....anyone want to swap rosters?

BigBird?  Does this supposition make sense to you?

[bigbird 60,368]

1 hour ago, Beaker said:

 

BigBird?  Does this supposition make sense to you?

Yes, but disagree to an extent.  While many of the larger schools have staffs and resources, the majority of Texas HSs don't.  Take East Texas for example, besides the Houston schools, there is little to no outside help available and most staffs are between 7-10 coaches. That said it is one of the most fruitful areas to produce D1 prospects.

 

1 hour ago, Beaker said:

Look at the great talent U of TX gets, then compare those kids to UGA, Auburn, UF 4 yrs later....anyone want to swap rosters?

To me, that's where the idea gets twisted. The SEC has the better programs, S&C, facilities, nutrition, psychological, etc.  The coaching at UTx has been subpar for quite a while.  If the talent at UT had the coaching expertise that the SEC has had lately, it would look very different.

[DAG 33,955]

11 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Yes, but disagree to an extent.  While many of the larger schools have staffs and resources, the majority of Texas HSs don't.  Take East Texas for example, besides the Houston schools, there is little to no outside help available and most staffs are between 7-10 coaches. That said it is one of the most fruitful areas to produce D1 prospects.

 

To me, that's where the idea gets twisted. The SEC has the better programs, S&C, facilities, nutrition, psychological, etc.  The coaching at UTx has been subpar for quite a while.  If the talent at UT had the coaching expertise that the SEC has had lately, it would look very different.

Not to mention the quality of style of play in Texas is completely different than what most see from these SEC players. Texas has some of the best 7 on 7 skill athletes out there because they prioritize this. Most of their schools run this type of offense and the players are bred to play this style of football. It isn't like the boobie miles days anymore, although I do like watching Euless Trinity roll over on people. I just think a lot of that needs to be considered when we are comparing and contrasting these things. Come to Wisconsin and you will see how the style of play is completely different than Alabama and definitely Texas. I hardly ever see a single spread team up here and 7 0n 7 camps are pretty non-existent. The regional dynamics play a huge part. But ask me about how they train in terms of basketball compared to the schools of Alabama..it is night and day.

[Zeek 16,613]

Not sure that this is even a debate.

It's universally accepted that Texas, Florida, California are some of the best places to try and pull talent.

Roughly 70% of Auburn's roster should be from Alabama and Georgia

The remaining 30% should be:

A few from Mississippi if they're studs, Florida, Texas, and it would be nice to drag more Louisiana kids out too.

California and Texas are hard pulls and our struggle with Florida is that most of the talent is really far south or at best it's in central Florida.

So what we're really left with is Alabama and Georgia talent with a sprinkle of kids from other areas; we'll never be pulling 10+ from Florida or Texas so it's almost pointless.

[corchjay 5,311]

Texas - QB and skilled positions 

South East - OL and DL, plus sprinkle in skill guys and occasionally a QB or 3

LB - is about the same no matter what part of the country.  

The line of scrimmage is what sets the south east a part from other regions of the country.  Even tho the spread concepts have come to the south most coaches still have that hard nosed line of scrimmage mentality.

[Cardin Drake 1,805]

I live in Austin, and I'll add my 2 cents. UT is recruiting well again under Tom Herman, but he is once again selling the future, not the present.  And the Big 12 is a liability.  Auburn has a bigger brand than you think.  And the SEC is a big draw.  Texas produces about 350 Division 1 football players every year, the most of any state, about 25 more than Florida.  A&M successfully sells playing in the SEC. But there are a lot of people who just don't want to be Aggies all their life.  If you don't waste time on players likely to go to UT or A&M, there are still a lot of players left.  And Auburn has just as much or more to sell as the rest of the schools recruiting in Texas. Outside of Oklahoma and LSU, everyone is weak or has the same geographical disadvantage that we do. If you can get an athlete to take a visit,  they will be impressed, and we'll have some success.

However, if the question is the bandwidth of the coaches, then of course they will have a lower hit rate trying to drag kids from Texas. But targeting some areas of need will pay off if the coaches have the time.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 6/14/2018 at 6:18 PM, DAG said:

Should we prioritize Texas? No we do very well on the Southeastern border. Should we thumb our noses down at Texas talent? Heck no. They produce quality high school talent. They have some of the best high school football programs in the nation. Individually they are not overrated. There is a reason why they have a high volume of players in the NFL. As a college institution have they been overrated ? Yes because their outcome has not correlated with the talent they are bringing in. This does not mean the talent is overrated. People forget a lot of Oklahoma talent comes from Texas. The reigning heisman winner and #1 draft pick was a Texas high school product. 

If we are going based on how well the college institutions are performing then we definitely need to question California because none of their teams have been dominant in quite sometime. 

California is a facade. Yes, they produce a lot of talent, but not when you consider how many kids they have to work with. Add to that all of the west coast schools to spread those players around and it's not really worth the effort.

If we landed classes based primarily in Georgia, Florida, and Texas, we would be sitting pretty.