the X's and O's of Malzahn's Offense

[Gowebb11 9,310]

9 hours ago, DAG said:

So why are we losing to the likes of UCF? Why are we 3-2 against Mississippi State? How does Wisconsin beat us in a bowl game in 2014? Asking for a friend. 

Tell your friend that I consider those losses games in which we were out coached. 

[DAG 33,955]

45 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Tell your friend that I consider those losses games in which we were out coached. 

Well in what world is that acceptable? The rationale is we have less room for error since we "play teams with more talent" then why are we losing to teams with less talent? You absolutely must beat those teams if you play 4 or 5 games against teams with "more talent."

[Gowebb11 9,310]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

Well in what world is that acceptable? The rationale is we have less room for error since we "play teams with more talent" then why are we losing to teams with less talent? You absolutely must beat those teams if you play 4 or 5 games against teams with "more talent."

You took my original post completely out of context, and I have neither the time nor inclination to go back and explain or justify it. I hope you have a nice day, and War Eagle. 

[DAG 33,955]

1 hour ago, Gowebb11 said:

You took my original post completely out of context, and I have neither the time nor inclination to go back and explain or justify it. I hope you have a nice day, and War Eagle. 

Exactly. People if you are going to come on threads and engage in points and conversation then at least have the mindset to solidly your point. Is that really that hard to ask? Haha. Like I am begging someone to explain this rationale that I often see posted from several posters on this forum.

[McLoofus 35,182]

21 minutes ago, DAG said:

Exactly. People if you are going to come on threads and engage in points and conversation then at least have the mindset to solidly your point. Is that really that hard to ask? Haha. Like I am begging some to explain this rationale that I often see posted from several posters on this forum.

I took it the same way you did at first, but then I considered that GW11 might've just been saying that Gus can't afford to take days off like he has on several occasions the last few seasons. As in, our tough schedule doesn't explain the bad losses; it merely demands that Gus do a better job. Just one possible interpretation.

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

55 minutes ago, DAG said:

Exactly. People if you are going to come on threads and engage in points and conversation then at least have the mindset to solidly your point. Is that really that hard to ask? Haha. Like I am begging some to explain this rationale that I often see posted from several posters on this forum.

 

30 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I took it the same way you did at first, but then I considered that GW11 might've just been saying that Gus can't afford to take days off like he has on several occasions the last few seasons. As in, our tough schedule doesn't explain the bad losses; it merely demands that Gus do a better job. Just one possible interpretation.

 

I agree with both of you but here's my two cents.

Why post something if you don't have the inclination to discuss and/or explain?

Then what was the point of posting a thought to begin with?

[bigbird 60,371]

[DAG 33,955]

34 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I took it the same way you did at first, but then I considered that GW11 might've just been saying that Gus can't afford to take days off like he has on several occasions the last few seasons. As in, our tough schedule doesn't explain the bad losses; it merely demands that Gus do a better job. Just one possible interpretation.

 

Maybe , but just say that haha. To me there isn’t any justification . You can’t rationale one thing and refuse to acknowledge the other . Not saying he is doing that but if you are going to take an excerpt from a quote of another poster , then at least explain your positioning. Especially when thus poster has vehemently refused to explain their original point.

[DAG 33,955]

I guess in reflection, my position is this...

There are years that LSU, UGA, Tamu recruit better than us, but it is NOT every year. On the basis of that, the idea that we are where we are supposed to be based on recruitment does not sit right with me. In all honesty, the only team that we should have an uphill battle defeating is Bama and guess what? We are 2-3 against them. So that leads me to believe that

A. We have the coaching

B. We have the talent 

To compete with anybody on any given day. Now, we play in a tough conference, arguably the toughest conference, so it is not rational to think we will leave unscathed on a yearly basis. But it seems some are conditioned in believing that are talent isn't on par with the other 4 or 5 schools in the conference, so 4-5 losses each year shouldn't be surprising. To me, this shouldn't be the case, but at worst, even if you want to base it all on recruiting, we should only have about 3 losses annually any given year, if we are basing it on talent. 

I love 247 composite talent marker:

2017: https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite

2016: https://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite

2015: https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite

Looking at this, there are only 3 teams who have had more total talent than us who we scheduled: UGA, Bama, and LSU. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

A. We have the coaching

B. We have the talent 

To compete with anybody on any given day.

Not to discount the rest of your post, but I just wanted to focus on this part.

We did not compete against Clemson. We did not compete in the 2nd half against LSU. We did not compete against uga once RB1 got hurt. In any given season, there are 3-4 games that we could understandably lose. But there is never, ever an excuse for an Auburn football team to not even compete. 

[DAG 33,955]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Not to discount the rest of your post, but I just wanted to focus on this part.

We did not compete against Clemson. We did not compete in the 2nd half against LSU. We did not compete against uga once RB1 got hurt. In any given season, there are 3-4 games that we could understandably lose. But there is never, ever an excuse for an Auburn football team to not even compete. 

very valid points. I think this should be plastered on threads, so people don't assume we are attacking Gus. The idea of losing really isn't the most frustrating thing. I guess more or less it is the fact that we aren't competing against these squads. Some games, the other team is better. However, I do feel that in some of our losses the team has been handicapped in some form or fashion.

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

very valid points. I think this should be plastered on threads, so people don't assume we are attacking Gus. The idea of losing really isn't the most frustrating thing. I guess more or less it is the fact that we aren't competing against these squads. Some games, the other team is better. However, I do feel that in some of our losses the team has been handicapped in some form or fashion.

And he's not talking about the hurt RB, folks. 

[Mike4AU 1,739]

The only stat that matters is the won/lost record.  AU lost four games last year.  With that in mind, I don't want to hear how good we were in our passing game, or any other part of our game.  And don't forget that stats are significantly padded by playing rummy teams.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

Not in direct response to anyone, and not even exclusively directed at the topic of this thread.

Just stepping back a bit from these narrow individual-component (talent, coaching, game plan, SOS,…) analyses we seem to keep getting into, I see it all as a game, a contest, and a realization of the “on any given day…” concept. Happy about unexpected losses? No. Excited by miracle wins? Who ain’t? Both, however, induce my vicarious emotional involvement in the effort (my fandom?).

 

Two teams lining up and comparing recruiting stars, or Vegas odds to determine the winner, or plugging their game plans into a computer game would be seem rather sterile. So does a simple W-L standard of an “acceptable” season that ignored the heroic efforts in losses, the act-of-God ball bounces, the “where-the-hell-did-that-play-come-from" moments.

 

Discuss those components for potential improvements? Petition for a player substitution or coaching change? Wish you could call in a play? Sure, why not? I get the feeling, however, that I’m more “accepting” of variable outcomes than many here seem to be, and I honestly believe that any characterization of any outcome as “excusable/inexcusable” is far beyond my purview as a vicarious “participant.” Maybe I’m Teutonic that way.

[AUsince72 11,084]

I could add more, but I'm not inclined to discuss it.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

13 minutes ago, Mike4AU said:

The only stat that matters is the won/lost record.  AU lost four games last year.  With that in mind, I don't want to hear how good we were in our passing game, or any other part of our game.  And don't forget that stats are significantly padded by playing rummy teams.

Over the entire history of Auburn football, we have played tons of poor footballs teams. It still doesn’t change the fact that 2017 was only our second ever 3k passer. Was also the first time we beat 5 SEC opponents by 21+ points. Of course w/l is ultimately what matters, but you only mentioned the 4 losses. It was still a 10 win season. What was accomplished in 2017 can be building blocks for 2018 with a chance at our first pair of back to back 10 wins seasons since 88/89. 

Despite every weapon we have returning, we have to replace two 1k backs and almost the entire OL which isn’t a good start for a power run/play action team. If our OL is solid though, I like our shot at achieving another 10 win season!

[Mike4AU 1,739]

71% success rate in my book does not deserve a gold star, no matter how many times in the past when the success rate has been worse.  I also don’t care how many times we have passed for 3K yards. The game is much different now, with many more plays being run and significantly more total games being played.  It is an illusion to compare past history to current results.

Face it, Gus completely blew the end of last year with his predictable and mind-numbing decisions.  He turned what should have been a very good year into an inexplicable embarrassment.

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, AUld fAUx@ said:

Discuss those components for potential improvements? Petition for a player substitution or coaching change? Wish you could call in a play? Sure, why not? I get the feeling, however, that I’m more “accepting” of variable outcomes than many here seem to be, and I honestly believe that any characterization of any outcome as “excusable/inexcusable” is far beyond my purview as a vicarious “participant.” Maybe I’m Teutonic that way.

"Defensible/indefensible" may or may not be a better way to say it. Maybe nothing need be said at all. But it becomes more difficult for me to offer the benefit of the doubt, if one chooses to consider that within their purview, when multiple, highly unlikely, negative outcomes regularly occur across multiple test scenarios (seasons). I consider this to be the case, and it compels me to identify the common denominator. And, while the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune are indeed a common denominator at Auburn, I cannot lay the blame for a minimum of 2 unusual losses a season for the last 4 seasons at their feet. In my mind, bad luck doesn't surrender 11 sacks in a game in the same season that it surrenders a 20 pt lead to Ed Orgeron. I must cop to an inability to accept that it might.

 

 

[Tiger 8,818]

10-2 regular season and SEC West title is a good season by any measure, and we beat UGA and Bama. Gus deserves praise for this.

But Gus broke our hearts again with more of same old same old in the post-season so our 10 win season ended on such a sour note that it feels underwhelming for a 10 win year. Now, if we had lost without looking incompetent the last 2 losses would've been much more forgivable.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

20 minutes ago, Mike4AU said:

71% success rate in my book does not deserve a gold star, no matter how many times in the past when the success rate has been worse.  I also don’t care how many times we have passed for 3K yards. The game is much different now, with many more plays being run and significantly more total games being played.  It is an illusion to compare past history to current results.

Face it, Gus completely blew the end of last year with his predictable and mind-numbing decisions.  He turned what should have been a very good year into an inexplicable embarrassment.

 

Your embarrassment (probably broadly shared) seems well explicated by the previous sentence.

I might argue, however, that all "results" are, by definition, "past history."

[Mike4AU 1,739]

I will now bow out of this discussion.  I am not a fan of Gus, but I don’t want to become one of “those guys” who constantly fill the airwaves with criticism of him. Doing so simply does not serve any useful purpose.  He clearly is our guy for several years, thanks to the diamond encased contract he got recently.  Let’s hope his bank account doesn’t have a negative impact on him. 

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

29 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

"Defensible/indefensible" may or may not be a better way to say it. Maybe nothing need be said at all. But it becomes more difficult for me to offer the benefit of the doubt, if one chooses to consider that within their purview, when multiple, highly unlikely, negative outcomes regularly occur across multiple test scenarios (seasons). I consider this to be the case, and it compels me to identify the common denominator. And, while the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune are indeed a common denominator at Auburn, I cannot lay the blame for a minimum of 2 unusual losses a season for the last 4 seasons at their feet. In my mind, bad luck doesn't surrender 11 sacks in a game in the same season that it surrenders a 20 pt lead to Ed Orgeron. I must cop to an inability to accept that it might.

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Tiger said:

10-2 regular season and SEC West title is a good season by any measure, and we beat UGA and Bama. Gus deserves praise for this.

But Gus broke our hearts again with more of same old same old in the post-season so our 10 win season ended on such a sour note that it feels underwhelming for a 10 win year. Now, if we had lost without looking incompetent the last 2 losses would've been much more forgivable.

My reactions are not perfectly attuned with yours, but I have no rational arguments with yours.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, AUld fAUx@ said:

My reactions are not perfectly attuned with yours, but I have no rational arguments with yours.

I yearn for a similarly accepting approach. Until zen, I yell. 

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

15 minutes ago, Mike4AU said:

I will now bow out of this discussion.  I am not a fan of Gus, but I don’t want to become one of “those guys” who constantly fill the airwaves with criticism of him. Doing so simply does not serve any useful purpose.  He clearly is our guy for several years, thanks to the diamond encased contract he got recently.  Let’s hope his bank account doesn’t have a negative impact on him. 

I share those hopes.

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 hour ago, Mike4AU said:

I will now bow out of this discussion.  I am not a fan of Gus, but I don’t want to become one of “those guys” who constantly fill the airwaves with criticism of him. Doing so simply does not serve any useful purpose.  He clearly is our guy for several years, thanks to the diamond encased contract he got recently.  Let’s hope his bank account doesn’t have a negative impact on him. 

I think you're fine.  After all, you're among friends here....

Personally, I think most of us have moved beyond the bashing of Gus (contrary to what a small handful on this board feel) but we are all simply putting forth our hopes, expectations and what we hope NOT to see anymore.  I think 99.9% of us WANTS Gus to succeed and become that absolute full-time bully that we saw during Amen Corner last year.  But, still, we all DO have expectations and hopes.  Nuff said on that.....

One thing I'd like to respond to as far as this "10 wins" thing...  10 wins in 1985 was phenomenal.  That usually meant you only lost 1 or 2 games, good chance you won your conference and probably won your Bowl game.

If I have to accept the fact that the Wishbones and Power I formations are basically dead and replaced with Spreads and Hurry-ups then we also need to accept that 10 wins today means you've probably lost 3-4 games, did not win your conference and possibly lost your Bowl game to a vastly inferior opponent.