Trump executive bill to end family separation

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Will the Left manipulate this, or eat their words?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

15 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Will the Left manipulate this, or eat their words?

I only need one guess.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Like everyone has said, this was something Trump could solve if he wanted to.  His hands have not been tied.

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, Proud Tiger said:

I only need one guess.

Trump is the evil monster who got gratification from ripping babies out of the arms of mothers....

Sounds super accurate and contextual 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

Like everyone has said, this was something Trump could solve if he wanted to.  His hands have not been tied.

 

So now he didn’t act soon enough? And that abrogates credit OBO of libs. I figured that might be an argument. Now I’m waiting for the lawsuit by ACLU accusing him of exceeding executive power.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

5 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

So now he didn’t act soon enough?

Well, yes, but that wasn't really my point.  My point was, his defenders have been acting like this was some problem of the law that couldn't be corrected by Trump alone.  And myself and others have said that this is an issue of how to enforce the pertinent laws, not a situation where anyone's hands are tied.  That appears to be true.

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, yes, but that wasn't really my point.  My point was, his defenders have been acting like this was some problem of the law that couldn't be corrected by Trump alone.  And myself and others have said that this is an issue of how to enforce the pertinent laws, not a situation where anyone's hands are tied.  That appears to be true.

 

Yes. I recall y’all saying that all he had to do was make one phone call. The law still has to be fixed, thanks to the Ninth Circuit. That’s why the order is only temporary. Ultimately we will have pass legislation. The laws are still in effect.

Does Trump deserve ANY credit today?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

5 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Yes. I recall y’all saying that all he had to do was make one phone call. The law still has to be fixed, thanks to the Ninth Circuit. That’s why the order is only temporary. Ultimately we will have pass legislation. The laws are still in effect.

Does Trump deserve ANY credit today?

Yes, but again, that was not the point I was making.  But you go on ahead and argue it til your fingers fall off.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

Yes, but again, that was not the point I was making.  But you go on ahead and argue it til your fingers fall off.

Ok.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, yes, but that wasn't really my point.  My point was, his defenders have been acting like this was some problem of the law that couldn't be corrected by Trump alone.  And myself and others have said that this is an issue of how to enforce the pertinent laws, not a situation where anyone's hands are tied.  That appears to be true.

 

And by the way, I guarantee that this order will not hold up in court if no legislation is passed. This isn’t really a correction. Trump is having to circumvent the law. Hopefully congress gets off their asses.

[HVAU 673]

2 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Will the Left manipulate this, or eat their words?

Expected better from you. 

This is exactly what "liberals" (every person not coddling Trump's...) requested.  Sure he could have acted faster, but he acted.  It's the right move.  There are plenty other issues to worry about.

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, HVAU said:

Expected better from you. 

This is exactly what "liberals" (every person not coddling Trump's...) requested.  Sure he could have acted faster, but he acted.  It's the right move.  There are plenty other issues to worry about.

 

I wasn’t throwing you in the pot. Our conversations typically have more thought. Rather it’s an extension of engagements I’ve had with a few others on here. 

Theres still much to be done. This is on Congress now and they better act quick.

[HVAU 673]

Just now, NolaAuTiger said:

I wasn’t throwing you in the pot. Our conversations typically have more thought. Rather it’s an extension of engagements I’ve had with a few others on here. 

Theres still much to be done. This is on Congress now and they better act quick.

Cool.  Sorry to be too reactionary there.

I agree that Congress needs to get it together and craft legislation that can address the complex concerns of this issue.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, HVAU said:

Cool.  Sorry to be too reactionary there.

I agree that Congress needs to get it together and craft legislation that can address the complex concerns of this issue.

Yes. Obama called congress out as well when he was president. He knew an executive action would likely be improper, much like the one today probably is. That was exactly the premise behind “catch and release.” Whether one agrees with him releasing these immigrants into the general population is beyond my comment at the moment. But for him, it was an alternative, except for essentially “circumventing” the law like we are potentially seeing today. Obviously, Trump didn’t follow suit with catch and release because political parties differ in their opinions on that. Anyways, I don’t see any way that it actually passes a legal challenge. What it does do is “buy time.” My fear arises from Congressional action, or more properly a lack thereof, in the past. Both democrats and republicans.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

I know you some of you think I’m blinded by hate, but a very YUGE KUDOS to Donald Trump for signing an executive order to end his administration’s policy of ZERO TOLERANCE which separates children from their parents. Well done. 

[RunInRed 16,383]

Do I have this right ...

We now have an EO to fix a problem he created in the first place, that he (initially) claimed the Democrats were preventing him from fixing?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

43 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

Do I have this right ...

We now have an EO to fix a problem he created in the first place, that he (initially) claimed the Democrats were preventing him from fixing?

Pretty much.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

3 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

I know you some of you think I’m blinded by hate, but a very YUGE KUDOS to Donald Trump for signing an executive order to end his administration’s policy of ZERO TOLERANCE which separates children from their parents. Well done. 

It doesn’t end zero tolerance...

The glorious Ninth Circuit rulings, and the settlement, is precisely the source of separating families El.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

4 hours ago, RunInRed said:

Do I have this right ...

We now have an EO to fix a problem he created in the first place, that he (initially) claimed the Democrats were preventing him from fixing?

The Ninth circuit and congress created the problem RR. Separating families wasn’t Trump’s doing. In 1997, the Flores settlement happened, which the US government was a party to. Under Flores, a minor-illegal cannot be detained for more than 20 days. Now, the difficult thing about a settlement between two parties is... well, it's a settlement. Settlements are harder to undo than regular rulings.

Fast forward almost twenty years. Obama admin is catching illegal immigrants at the border. He's detaining entire families together. This is all going well until the Ninth Circuit pronounces that the Flores settlement also applies to minors crossing the border with families. So what does Obama do? He releases families, together, on the stipulation that they will show up for their court hearing. The only problem is that 70-90% of these illegals would forego their hearing, and essentially continue roaming around. That's problematic for numerous reasons. Fast forward to Trump's zero tolerance policy... all illegal immigrants caught at the border will be detained and prosecuted. Well, Flores and its companion are still in effect, which means that minors cannot be detained for excess of 20 days. Thus, families are separated, not because of Trump's doing, but because of existing federal statutory law. Essentially, the only alternative is to not detain majors, who have minors with them; but we already know that they likely won't show up for their hearing if we just let them go until the court date. It's basically a predicament created long before Trump and Obama, but expanded under Obama.  I hate seeing families separated, and I also hate to release illegals on the insufficient stipulation that they'll gratuitously show up in court when their day comes. Some of the illegals released under the "catch and release" policy committed violent crimes against Americans. Obama wanted to pass an EO, but he knew he would be exceeding his authority. He even said it himself. Trump is essentially buying time for Congress. If they don't act, the EO won't stand because IMHO, the EO will not survive a legal challenge. The ball is in Congress’ court now.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

2 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Pretty much.

Come on now. You’re a smart guy. I don’t need to explain it to you. It’s time for congress to act!!

[SaltyTiger 7,782]

Biggest thing I take from this discussion:  If @icanthearyou could learn to type again we would all know what is going on

[channonc 466]

No plans to reunify families torn apart. Families will still be prosecuted and will now be held in detention together “indefinitely”. And unless the court settlement is overturned, after 20 days these families will be split again. (I assume this Administration will not want to release them both after 20 days). 

From an NPR interview today:    

LINK

Quote

But there are alternatives to detention. I received an email from ICE yesterday with an amazing statistic - 99.8 percent of participants enrolled in alternatives to detention successfully make it to immigration court. And I know lots of immigrant parents with children are being released right now in South Texas wearing these electronic ankle monitors. When they strap them on, they agree to appear at all their immigration hearings and check in with ICE periodically. Conservatives contradict ICE, saying the no-show rate is actually much higher.

But there - so there are three of these electronic alternatives, two more - telephonic reporting allows a participant to call a number that recognizes their voice print and constitutes a check in. And finally, there's a program launched earlier this year that I think a guest mentioned in the earlier hour called SmartLINK that allows the immigrant to check in with their mobile phone. And the Government Accountability Office found that these kinds of electronic supervision are the cheapest form of monitoring, much less expensive than detention, which is what the Trump administration wants more of.

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, channonc said:

No plans to reunify families torn apart. Families will still be prosecuted and will now be held in detention together “indefinitely”. And unless the court settlement is overturned, after 20 days these families will be split again. (I assume this Administration will not want to release them both after 20 days). 

From an NPR interview today:    

LINK

 

Well, the EO is temporary. This admin won’t do what Obama did becuase 70-90% of families would likely skip court, like the last time that exact policy was in place. Catch and release does nothing to reform immigration.

Technically, the only way to “overturn” a settlement  is through legislation. It’s not the same as a regular court holding. The EO does nothing more than buy time, which is needed. It won’t survive in court, so congress must act quickly... they’ve had over 20 years. Flores settlement was 1997. Ninth Circuit expanded it in 2016.

[SaltyTiger 7,782]

1 minute ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Well, the EO is temporary. This admin won’t do what Obama did becuase 70-90% of families would likely skip court, like the last time that exact policy was in place. Catch and release does nothing to reform immigration.

Technically, the only way to “overturn” a settlement  is through legislation. It’s not the same as a regular court holding. The EO does nothing more than buy time, which is needed. It won’t survive in court, so congress must act quickly... they’ve had over 20 years. Flores settlement was 1997. Ninth Circuit expanded it in 2016.

Nola, I continue to get hung up on the repeated word "policy". If the entire sudden crisis comes from Trump policy why not a memo vs the EO?

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

4 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Nola, I continue to get hung up on the repeated word "policy". If the entire sudden crisis comes from Trump policy why not a memo vs the EO?

It doesn’t come from trump. That’s why