NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 SCOTUS today held as follows: (clink on links to read opinion) (1) States can charge out-of-state retailers sales tax, at least in some circumstances, even if they don’t have a store or warehouse in the state, clearing the way to allow sales taxes on internet purchases (opinion in South Dakota here); (2) Administrative law judges at SEC are “officers” of the US for purposes of Constitution’s appointments clause; ruling means that their appointments have been unconstitutional (opinion in Lucia here); (3) DHS notice ordering noncitizen to appear for deportation proceedings but without specifying date or time does not stop clock for purposes of length of time spent in US & therefore eligibility to avoid being deported (opinion in Pereira here); (4) Railroad employee’s exercise of stock options is not “compensation” subject to railroad retirement taxes (opinion in Wisconsin Central here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Thoughts? I think we enjoy these discussions. @TitanTiger @HVAU @Brad_ATX @AUDub @Proud Tiger @SaltyTiger Notably, (1) above. I am young gun. Y'all can recall the internet evolution better than I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,471 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I thought it was interesting that Kennedy, Alito, Gorsuch, Thomas and Ginsburg formed the majority while Roberts joined Kagan, Sotomayor and Breyer on the dissent. I think it's a reasonable decision that was probably overdue by a few years. It made more sense when the internet was nascent to allow it to grow relatively unfettered. But it's a mature technological medium for commerce now. Online firms should be able to compete on a more level playing field with local brick and mortar merchants without the 7-10% price advantage built in due to an exemption from sales taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: I thought it was interesting that Kennedy, Alito, Gorsuch, Thomas and Ginsburg formed the majority while Roberts joined Kagan, Sotomayor and Breyer on the dissent. I think it's a reasonable decision that was probably overdue by a few years. It made more sense when the internet was nascent to allow it to grow relatively unfettered. But it's a mature technological medium for commerce now. Online firms should be able to compete on a more level playing field with local brick and mortar merchants without the 7-10% price advantage built in due to an exemption from sales taxes. Probably a reasonable decision but in my experience unless I am buying something like a lap top computer, the sales tax advantage on most household items I buy is pretty much offset by the added cost of freight to ship single items to my home. My home is about 50 miles RT from the nearest major big box or technology store so the big savings to me on modest stuff is not having to spend an hour on the road and maybe a couple gallons of gas. I don't see this ruling changing my shopping habits. The disadvantage that local merchants can never over-come is available and infinite supply from internet sources. Thus, I don't see any of the mom and pop stores in my area benefitting from this....just the local governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,471 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, AU64 said: Probably a reasonable decision but in my experience unless I am buying something like a lap top computer, the sales tax advantage on most household items I buy is pretty much offset by the added cost of freight to ship single items to my home. Most of the time, I'm able to find free shipping deals. But you're right; sometimes shipping is a deciding factor in favor of buying local. 4 minutes ago, AU64 said: My home is about 50 miles RT from the nearest major big box or technology store so the big savings to me on modest stuff is not having to spend an hour on the road and maybe a couple gallons of gas. I don't see this ruling changing my shopping habits. The disadvantage that local merchants can never over-come is available and infinite supply from internet sources. Thus, I don't see any of the mom and pop stores in my area benefitting from this....just the local governments. True. Both sides have the advantages and disadvantages. Online has much more selection and supply available typically. And you can shop in your PJs in the comfort of your home, any time of day or night. And bigger sites will often have buying power that allows them to offer better prices. Local retailers have the advantage of being able to have it "right now", having someone there to ask questions about the item, being able to see/feel/try out a product before buying and no shipping costs. It feels like at this point, the sales tax exemption was just stacking the deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I don't do much shopping online but my wife does. She finds good deals with free shipping from Amazon. The only problem is she finds too many good deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, TitanTiger said: Most of the time, I'm able to find free shipping deals. But you're right; sometimes shipping is a deciding factor in favor of buying local. True. Both sides have the advantages and disadvantages. Online has much more selection and supply available typically. And you can shop in your PJs in the comfort of your home, any time of day or night. And bigger sites will often have buying power that allows them to offer better prices. Local retailers have the advantage of being able to have it "right now", having someone there to ask questions about the item, being able to see/feel/try out a product before buying and no shipping costs. It feels like at this point, the sales tax exemption was just stacking the deck. True….and this is why building supply places and stores like Home Depot continue to do well.....aside from difficulty with shipment, they usually have people who know what you need and how to install it. As you say, shop in my PJs in middle of the night.....can shop three or four "stores" in a matter of minutes and I also get free shipment on Amazon Prime which means that I do a tremendous amount of "spur of the moment" buying of small stuff that shows up USPS in a day or two.....things that it barely makes sense to go and get in person. My most recent purchase include air filters for wife's Prius, a lemon squeezer, Wi-Fi extender, filter media for my home A/C system, folding cover for my Kindle and a two small quartz clocks for my shop and wife's garden workshop. . The internet marketplace is a new world.....and I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,131 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 https://t.co/V7DF8V5PLr?amp=1 Happy with the Carpenter ruling. 5-4 with Roberts joining the liberal wing. Get a warrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 20 hours ago, TitanTiger said: I thought it was interesting that Kennedy, Alito, Gorsuch, Thomas and Ginsburg formed the majority while Roberts joined Kagan, Sotomayor and Breyer on the dissent. I think it's a reasonable decision that was probably overdue by a few years. It made more sense when the internet was nascent to allow it to grow relatively unfettered. But it's a mature technological medium for commerce now. Online firms should be able to compete on a more level playing field with local brick and mortar merchants without the 7-10% price advantage built in due to an exemption from sales taxes. Isn't it going to be most burdensome to small businesses, who's products are available online in all 50 states? The legal/compliance expenses alone to conform with each state's tax is going to cost an arm and a leg, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, AUDub said: https://t.co/V7DF8V5PLr?amp=1 Happy with the Carpenter ruling. 5-4 with Roberts joining the liberal wing. Get a warrant. Wow. Literally read every single one of those cases cited in syllabus in my ACJ I class. Interesting stuff. Expectation of privacy test is a complicating matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,471 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: Isn't it going to be most burdensome to small businesses, who's products are available online in all 50 states? The legal/compliance expenses alone to conform with each state's tax is going to cost an arm and a leg, I would think. Generally speaking, no. Most websites that have a shopping cart, especially those of smaller businesses that don't employ full time IT staff that might customize such a thing, just use a bolt-on shopping cart product. And those shopping carts generally come with the ability to charge sales tax. The companies that make those carts may have to do some work on the back end database it calls out to for sales tax calculations (or the company they use to call out for those calculations will), but it's not onerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,131 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, NolaAuTiger said: Wow. Literally read every single one of those cases cited in syllabus in my ACJ I class. Interesting stuff. Expectation of privacy test is a complicating matter. Ken called it 4th amendment porn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevon67 2,368 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 21 hours ago, Proud Tiger said: I don't do much shopping online but my wife does. She finds good deals with free shipping from Amazon. The only problem is she finds too many good deals. As a teen in the early mid 80's did most of my clothes shoe shopping as a size 15 shoe was extremely rare find in stores.....Thank God for Eddie Bauer catalogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,131 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said: Wow. Literally read every single one of those cases cited in syllabus in my ACJ I class. Interesting stuff. Expectation of privacy test is a complicating matter. Gorsuch's dissent is interesting. Seems he wanted this to be an even bigger 4A victory than it is. https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/22/scotus-rejects-warrantless-tracking-of-c/amp?__twitter_impression=true Justice Neil Gorsuch struck an entirely different note in his lone dissent. Indeed, his dissent reads much more like a concurrence. It seems clear that while Gorsuch agreed with the majority that Carpenter deserved to win, he strongly disagreed with them about how the win should have happened. "I would look to a more traditional Fourth Amendment approach," Gorsuch wrote. "The Fourth Amendment protects 'the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures.' True to those words and their original understanding, the traditional approach asked if a house, paper or effect was yours under law. No more was needed to trigger the Fourth Amendment." Furthermore, Gorsuch wrote, "it seems to me entirely possible a person's cell-site data could qualify as his papers or effects under existing law." "I cannot fault" the majority "for its implicit but unmistakable conclusion that the rationale of Smith and Miller is wrong; indeed, I agree with that," Gorsuch explained. "At the same time, I do not agree with the Court's decision today to keep Smith and Miller on life support." In other words, Gorsuch would scrap these third-party precedents and have the Court start adhering to an originalist, property rights-based theory of the Fourth Amendment. That's how Gorsuch wanted Carpenter to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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