The Great Russian Disinformation Campaign

[homersapien 11,354]

In a new book, Timothy Snyder explains how Russia revolutionized information warfare—and presages its consequences for democracies in Europe and the United States.

When Westerners first began to hear of Vladimir Putin’s troll army—now some five years ago—the project sounded absurd. President Obama in March 2014 had dismissed Russia as merely a weak “regional power.” And Putin’s plan to strike back was to hire himself a bunch of internet commenters? Seriously?

In a recent talk in Washington, the historian Timothy Snyder observed that Russia’s annual budget for cyberwarfare is less than the price of a single American F-35 jet. Snyder challenged his audience to consider: Which weapon has done more to shape world events?

Read the full article at: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/the-great-russian-disinformation-campaign/564032/

[DKW 86 7,411]

One of my BIG BIG BIG issues with the 'Russians" story is this: SO WHAT! 

HRC outspent Trump by $500M. So far the worst of the "conspiracy: theories says that the Russians may have spent as much as $1M or so. HRC had more than ample funding etc to counter anything that the Russians could have tried etc. HRC was just a bad candidate with little to no passion on the campaign trail. She ran a woefully bad campaign. She also did herself ZERO favors with the email server. If HRC had played by the rules with her fricking email, she would have won in a landslide. Think about how badly her arrogance played with the American voter.

[homersapien 11,354]

[DKW 86 7,411]

Does anyone with two brain cells active in their head think that a fly by night social media attack that was barely funded actually had anything but an "at the margins" effect on a US Presidential Election?

[homersapien 11,354]

17 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Does anyone with two brain cells active in their head think that a fly by night social media attack that was barely funded actually had anything but an "at the margins" effect on a US Presidential Election?

Read the damn article.  It's not about Russia changing the election.

[DKW 86 7,411]

I was commenting about just aspect of the article: "In a recent talk in Washington, the historian Timothy Snyder observed that Russia’s annual budget for cyberwarfare is less than the price of a single American F-35 jet. Snyder challenged his audience to consider: Which weapon has done more to shape world events?" I was making a point, i thought agreeing with yours, that in all actuality, the total amount of their costs are just trivial.

[TexasTiger 12,811]

On 7/2/2018 at 3:42 AM, DKW 86 said:

One of my BIG BIG BIG issues with the 'Russians" story is this: SO WHAT! 

HRC outspent Trump by $500M. So far the worst of the "conspiracy: theories says that the Russians may have spent as much as $1M or so. HRC had more than ample funding etc to counter anything that the Russians could have tried etc. HRC was just a bad candidate with little to no passion on the campaign trail. She ran a woefully bad campaign. She also did herself ZERO favors with the email server. If HRC had played by the rules with her fricking email, she would have won in a landslide. Think about how badly her arrogance played with the American voter.

You utterly fail to get the larger issue. This ain’t about HRC!

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

4 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

You utterly fail to get the larger issue. This ain’t about HRC!

This x1000

[DKW 86 7,411]

And has been going on for decades during the Cold War and after. Every country on the planet practices it. Every country has practiced it since before there was a Russia worth talking about. This is nothing new. Take a chill pill and move on with your life.

[homersapien 11,354]

10 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

And has been going on for decades during the Cold War and after. Every country on the planet practices it. Every country has practiced it since before there was a Russia worth talking about. This is nothing new. Take a chill pill and move on with your life.

The internet and social media existed during the Cold War? 

You are still clueless regarding the actual subject.

[DKW 86 7,411]

On 7/9/2018 at 8:35 PM, homersapien said:

The internet and social media existed during the Cold War? 

You are still clueless regarding the actual subject.

You are clueless about history...

[homersapien 11,354]

On 7/10/2018 at 11:46 PM, DKW 86 said:

You are clueless about history...

How so oh disingenuous one?

This article is about Russian cyberwarfare.  I hardly think that's been going on since the cold war.  (Don't forget I was actually there while it was happening.) Of course hostile governments have always engaged in propaganda wars.  But that's not what the topic is about.

Hint: Look at the title of the OP.

[DKW 86 7,411]

Cyberware is nothing more than a tool used for the same game that nations have been playing for 100s of years. The fact that you use electrons versus letters, or pamphlets or newspapers, etc is truly immaterial. 

The Great Russian Disinformation Campaign is just one in a long long long long long line of the same crap. 

I know you have likely never heard of pravda, but the USSR and the Nazis were experts at this 80 years ago. Electrons are just another tool in the tool bag.

 

[homersapien 11,354]

On 7/11/2018 at 1:23 PM, DKW 86 said:

Cyberware is nothing more than a tool used for the same game that nations have been playing for 100s of years. The fact that you use electrons versus letters, or pamphlets or newspapers, etc is truly immaterial. 

The Great Russian Disinformation Campaign is just one in a long long long long long line of the same crap. 

I know you have likely never heard of pravda, but the USSR and the Nazis were experts at this 80 years ago. Electrons are just another tool in the tool bag.

 

No, you are flat out wrong.  That is a hopelessly ignorant and naive statement.  Surely you don't think technology (internet) hasn't had a radical impact on our society?  

Technology - which created so called "information age" - has radically changed the way news and information is distributed and consumed today.  Likewise, it has radically changed the effectiveness of propaganda.  This is what the article is about, not the simple fact that Russia deals in propaganda.

I don't think I have ever seen someone "double down" on missing the point as much as you are doing.

And please never heard of Pravda?  I know that was a feeble effort at an insult, but it just comes across as feeble. 

[DKW 86 7,411]

You have now resorted to definitional arguments. There is no end to that. You can, as you always do, move the goalposts continuously. 

You came to your conclusion and now are trying to convince the rest of us that $1M or so of factual expense managed to overcome a $500M advantage? Do you ever listen to yourself when you blindly, mindlessly parrot all these talking points? People like you that are in hyperbole mode 100% of the time turn into political chicken littles or maybe better, Peter in Peter and the Wolf. Soon no one is listening, and then you get all apoplectic when no one is listening. 

Look, do us all a favor and tone down the hyperbole. You are passionate about your beliefs, and that is almost always a great thing. But dont go so overboard that you turn others off or run them away. Problem 1 for the Democrat Party may be this: That they have used hyperbole to the point that people just dont listen to them anymore. In 2008, the DNC took control of the Senate, HOR, and the WH. Since then, the DNC has lost all three and another 1000+ places across the country. This is bad as bad can be. Any time one party is in control, THE Republicans, that strongly, abuses are sure to occur.

To take back America, WE have to win elections. To win elections, we have to be more than bad comic parodies. We must give the middle-class something to vote FOR. We can't continue to refer to them as "Deplorables." We cant mock them and ask for their votes. We cant continue to use hyperbole to the point that no one is listening. 

Is there a problem with interference in national elections? Yes, been that way 100s of years.
Is the internet making it worse? It would easily seem so.
Are the Russians making the American Electoral process fail? FACTS do not support that, unless your only needed fact is that Trump beat a so-so candidate that ran a horrifically bad campaign.How about another fact: Fact-Bernie Sanders was the candidate that the real rank and file voters wanted to run in 2016 and they stayed home after finding out that that the deck was stacked against them. Thanks to the DNC Emails and Brazile's book, many could make that the reason Trump is President.

[homersapien 11,354]

Just go away DKW. 

I posted an article about the efficiency of Russian investment in modern  disinformation campaigns. It could relate to many countries, like North Korea, but we just know more about Russia and their efforts to destabilize democracies everywhere.

You first discount the whole premise by claiming technology has changed nothing.  That's patently absurd.  No one who has  been awake for the last 40 years can seriously suggest technology and the internet haven't profoundly changed the global information environment. So failing at that, you would rather change the subject to the last election. 

Just go start your own thread.  Indulge yourself and your weird denial about everything Russia.  And it is weird.

[DKW 86 7,411]

Or what? Just keep screaming “Russians” and keep losing elections?

[DKW 86 7,411]

On 7/13/2018 at 8:07 PM, DKW 86 said:

Or what? Just keep screaming “Russians” and keep losing elections?

Still waiting homey...Is this the penultimate point you want to make? That Democrats dont need to do anything but scream Russians another million times and suddenly the American Public, the same American public that elected Obama will suddenly change and vote Dems into the Senate, the HOR, and The WH and 1000 other offices? Amazing, we dont have to have policies, nor make peace with the middle class, nor anyone else. The American People are working their collective asses off not to hear about whats in it FOR THEM, but how great the Dem leadership is and how we should be in charge by divine right. 

Oh yea, that will win us all those elections...

[homersapien 11,354]

6 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Still waiting homey...Is this the penultimate point you want to make? That Democrats dont need to do anything but scream Russians another million times and suddenly the American Public, the same American public that elected Obama will suddenly change and vote Dems into the Senate, the HOR, and The WH and 1000 other offices? Amazing, we dont have to have policies, nor make peace with the middle class, nor anyone else. The American People are working their collective asses off not to hear about whats in it FOR THEM, but how great the Dem leadership is and how we should be in charge by divine right. 

Oh yea, that will win us all those elections...

The point I was making with this particular thread is how technology and the internet have introduced a completely different threat to democracy, one that can be done on the cheap.  (Thus the striking example of Russia spending less than a single advanced fighter plane.)

This is a classic case of what is known as "asymmetrical warfare".  And we as a nation had better get savvy to it if we expect to maintain a fair election process that is not influenced by those who would do us harm.

It had nothing to do with the last election, or with Hillary, or with making excuses for the outcome.  You seem to have a maniacal obsession with that.  Take it elsewhere.  It's not relevant here.