It's not just Pearl Harbor, it's also 9/11

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

Quote

Dem lawmaker calls Russian meddling a 9/11-level national emergency

 

BY ARIS FOLLEY - 07/18/18 10:12 AM EDT

 

Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) on Wednesday called Russia's meddling in the 2016 presidential election a 9/11 level national emergency.

His comment comes days after President Trump appeared to side with Russian President Vladimir Putin over his denial that Russia interfered in the election, comments Trump sought to walk back on Tuesday.

"We are in a 9/11 national emergency because our country is under attack," Blumenthal said during an appearance Wednesday on CNN's "New Day."

“Literally, that attack is ongoing and pervasive, verified by objective and verifiable evidence,” he continued.  

 

Read more at:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/397607-dem-lawmaker-calls-russia-meddling-a-9-11-level-national

 

This kind of rhetoric doesn't receive any pushback from the same media that have conniption fits over Trump's rhetoric. 

Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and Russian meddling, they're all very similar you see. All of those attacks resulted in thousands of deaths and the U.S. responded to those attacks by getting into wars........ Wait, what?

[TexasTiger 12,811]

9 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Read more at:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/397607-dem-lawmaker-calls-russia-meddling-a-9-11-level-national

 

This kind of rhetoric doesn't receive any pushback from the same media that have conniption fits over Trump's rhetoric. 

Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and Russian meddling, they're all very similar you see. All of those attacks resulted in thousands of deaths and the U.S. responded to those attacks by getting into wars........ Wait, what?

It’s over your little head.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

9 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

It’s over your little head.

Russian meddling does not rise to the level of a national emergency where actual lives are lost. Any way you choose to measure the Russian meddling, it's nowhere near to any level of a Pearl Harbor or 9/11. 

 But you go on thinking that it's a reasonable description to the election meddling and that it's ok to invoke historical attacks that resulted in wars. Just because some of our idiotic government officials are ok with using that kind of rhetoric doesn't mean you have to support it or go along with it. Kind of like the left on here who constantly points to Trump's rhetoric and calls out right leaning posters to rebuke Trump's rhetoric. 

Tex, would you care to explain what you would do to combat Russia? You obviously agree with the government officials who don't think sanctions are enough. Do you want a military response to Russia or do you just want Trump to talk tougher to Putin?

[homersapien 11,354]

How about a focused and vigorous effort - led from the top - to thwart their efforts in the next two elections? 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

How about a focused and vigorous effort - led from the top - to thwart their efforts in the next two elections? 

You can call for that without invoking Pearl Harbor or 9/11. I guess I'm just too ignorant to grasp how invoking Pearl Harbor or 9/11 is helpful or meaningful to combating election meddling? I just see it as mindless rhetoric being used to whip up public opinion to favor whatever actions our government officials endorse taking against Russia. 

My point has been that unless there are calls for war or actual military actions that are considered against Russia, then invoking Pearl Harbor or 9/11 is unnecessary. 

Playing this up and hyping it up as a national emergency in the same breath as Pearl Harbor or 9/11 allows Putin to use our hysteria as propaganda. It's the same point that anti-Trump folks used when Trump was calling Kim Jung Un 'rocket man' and talking about his red button being bigger than Kim's. The more hostile Trump was towards Kim then all the anti-Trump people starting calling his rhetoric reckless and that it was leading to a path of war:

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/157873-trump-probably-made-up-that-‘fire-and-fury’-quote-on-his-own/?tab=comments#comment-2696520

 

But with Russia, the left seems ok with incendiary rhetoric and aren't worried about how it could be used against us.

[homersapien 11,354]

10 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

You can call for that without invoking Pearl Harbor or 9/11. I guess I'm just too ignorant to grasp how invoking Pearl Harbor or 9/11 is helpful or meaningful to combating election meddling? I just see it as mindless rhetoric being used to whip up public opinion to favor whatever actions our government officials endorse taking against Russia. 

My point has been that unless there are calls for war or actual military actions that are considered against Russia, then invoking Pearl Harbor or 9/11 is unnecessary. 

Playing this up and hyping it up as a national emergency in the same breath as Pearl Harbor or 9/11 allows Putin to use our hysteria as propaganda. It's the same point that anti-Trump folks used when Trump was calling Kim Jung Un 'rocket man' and talking about his red button being bigger than Kim's. The more hostile Trump was towards Kim then all the anti-Trump people starting calling his rhetoric reckless and that it was leading to a path of war:

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/157873-trump-probably-made-up-that-‘fire-and-fury’-quote-on-his-own/?tab=comments#comment-2696520

 

But with Russia, the left seems ok with incendiary rhetoric and aren't worried about how it could be used against us.

Why should we have to call for it?  Isn't that why we have a president?

Forget Pearl Harbor. 

Ask yourself why our president is refusing to do the obvious in order to protect the country.

 

 

[Mikey 16,550]

44 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Ask yourself why our president is refusing to do the obvious in order to protect the country.

What is he not doing? According to NBC news tonight, the states have been given federal funding to increase election security and none of them have done anything. So far, the money has gone unspent. That can not be blamed on the Administration.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

59 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Why should we have to call for it?  Isn't that why we have a president?

Forget Pearl Harbor. 

Ask yourself why our president is refusing to do the obvious in order to protect the country.

 

 

Yeah, giving $380 million in funding in order to help with election security and technology is doing nothing. 

Ok. What else does Trump need to do?

 

Quote

The Trump administration has given states $380 million to upgrade and secure their voting technology.

The funding was included in the massive appropriations bill approved by Congress and signed by President Trump last week. It represents an effort by lawmakers in Washington to protect upcoming elections from cyber threats, following Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. 

The U.S. Election Assistance Commission (EAC) has specifiedthe exact amount allocated to each state, according to a list posted late this week. California will receive the largest award — roughly $35 million — followed by Texas with $23 million and New York with $19 million. 

States can use the funds to make technology and election security improvements in order to secure their voting infrastructure. 

Read more at:

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/381015-government-doles-out-election-security-funds-to-states

[TexasTiger 12,811]

3 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Russian meddling does not rise to the level of a national emergency where actual lives are lost. Any way you choose to measure the Russian meddling, it's nowhere near to any level of a Pearl Harbor or 9/11. 

 But you go on thinking that it's a reasonable description to the election meddling and that it's ok to invoke historical attacks that resulted in wars. Just because some of our idiotic government officials are ok with using that kind of rhetoric doesn't mean you have to support it or go along with it. Kind of like the left on here who constantly points to Trump's rhetoric and calls out right leaning posters to rebuke Trump's rhetoric. 

Tex, would you care to explain what you would do to combat Russia? You obviously agree with the government officials who don't think sanctions are enough. Do you want a military response to Russia or do you just want Trump to talk tougher to Putin?

I want a far more active response to protecting our elections, for one. But the problem is not major solely because the Russians tried to meddle. Trump’s clearly compromised. If you still can’t see that after this week, I don’t know what to say.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

3 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Russian meddling does not rise to the level of a national emergency where actual lives are lost. Any way you choose to measure the Russian meddling, it's nowhere near to any level of a Pearl Harbor or 9/11. 

 But you go on thinking that it's a reasonable description to the election meddling and that it's ok to invoke historical attacks that resulted in wars. Just because some of our idiotic government officials are ok with using that kind of rhetoric doesn't mean you have to support it or go along with it. Kind of like the left on here who constantly points to Trump's rhetoric and calls out right leaning posters to rebuke Trump's rhetoric. 

Tex, would you care to explain what you would do to combat Russia? You obviously agree with the government officials who don't think sanctions are enough. Do you want a military response to Russia or do you just want Trump to talk tougher to Putin?

In a way, it's worse.  I'm not in any way attempting to diminish the loss of life, but Russia is trying to disrupt our country's very foundational core and democratic values.  If the electorate loses faith in free and fair elections, then we lose who we are as Americans.

Japan and OBL attacked objects and people.  Those are tangible.  The Russians are attacking ideals.  Those ideals are crucial to the American identity and have been since the beginning, but we can't really see and touch them.  Without those ideals and the principles for which we hold dear, the "grand experiment" will fail.  So yes, we should be sounding alarm bells loudly and in unison with regards to foreign meddling with our elections, much like we would if our country was physically attacked.

[TexasTiger 12,811]

37 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

In a way, it's worse.  I'm not in any way attempting to diminish the loss of life, but Russia is trying to disrupt our country's very foundational core and democratic values.  If the electorate loses faith in free and fair elections, then we lose who we are as Americans.

Japan and OBL attacked objects and people.  Those are tangible.  The Russians are attacking ideals.  Those ideals are crucial to the American identity and have been since the beginning, but we can't really see and touch them.  Without those ideals and the principles for which we hold dear, the "grand experiment" will fail.  So yes, we should be sounding alarm bells loudly and in unison with regards to foreign meddling with our elections, much like we would if our country was physically attacked.

Physical attacks tend to unify us— Russia’s goal is to divide us from each other and our allies— and it’s working far too well.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

43 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

In a way, it's worse.  I'm not in any way attempting to diminish the loss of life, but Russia is trying to disrupt our country's very foundational core and democratic values.  If the electorate loses faith in free and fair elections, then we lose who we are as Americans.

Japan and OBL attacked objects and people.  Those are tangible.  The Russians are attacking ideals.  Those ideals are crucial to the American identity and have been since the beginning, but we can't really see and touch them.  Without those ideals and the principles for which we hold dear, the "grand experiment" will fail.  So yes, we should be sounding alarm bells loudly and in unison with regards to foreign meddling with our elections, much like we would if our country was physically attacked.

We can stand firm against Russia interfering in our elections and come together to make sure our elections are secure and able to thwart foreign meddling. You'll get no disagreement from me on that but it's the hatred/bitterness over the 2016 election towards Trump that is taking things further than they need to go in regards to dealing with Russia.. Saying we shouldn't talk with Putin or talk to other leaders who are aggressive towards the U.S. is just sticking our heads in the sand and saying that we throw in the towel on diplomacy with countries who aren't our allies all because Trump is the president. 

I take Russian meddling very serious and want Russia to be dealt with but there's a fine line between taking it seriously and going further by invoking attacks which led us to war.  The left's hatred of Trump shouldn't get us to a point of escalating things towards a war with Russia.

[TexasTiger 12,811]

1 hour ago, Auburnfan91 said:

We can stand firm against Russia interfering in our elections and come together to make sure our elections are secure and able to thwart foreign meddling. You'll get no disagreement from me on that but it's the hatred/bitterness over the 2016 election towards Trump that is taking things further than they need to go in regards to dealing with Russia.. Saying we shouldn't talk with Putin or talk to other leaders who are aggressive towards the U.S. is just sticking our heads in the sand and saying that we throw in the towel on diplomacy with countries who aren't our allies all because Trump is the president. 

I take Russian meddling very serious and want Russia to be dealt with but there's a fine line between taking it seriously and going further by invoking attacks which led us to war.  The left's hatred of Trump shouldn't get us to a point of escalating things towards a war with Russia.

Why is this framed as the alternative is war with Russia? Over what? Who on the “left” is advocating war? 

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

We can stand firm against Russia interfering in our elections and come together to make sure our elections are secure and able to thwart foreign meddling. You'll get no disagreement from me on that but it's the hatred/bitterness over the 2016 election towards Trump that is taking things further than they need to go in regards to dealing with Russia.. Saying we shouldn't talk with Putin or talk to other leaders who are aggressive towards the U.S. is just sticking our heads in the sand and saying that we throw in the towel on diplomacy with countries who aren't our allies all because Trump is the president. 

I take Russian meddling very serious and want Russia to be dealt with but there's a fine line between taking it seriously and going further by invoking attacks which led us to war.  The left's hatred of Trump shouldn't get us to a point of escalating things towards a war with Russia.

This is a fundamental and common misunderstanding of how most of trump's critics feel. It is not about hate, bitterness or being sore losers. That is something that people like @Mikey- and you?- keep saying as a defense mechanism against the criticism. It's the same tactic that trump uses to handle negative press. It's the same tactic that trial lawyers use to discredit hostile witnesses. It has nothing to do with what is happening and being witnessed.

Stop mitigating to make yourself feel better. We critique trump because of what he is doing and saying. He is a terrible president and none of the other Republican nominees would have received this treatment because most of them were at least rational, sane human beings. George Bush wasn't treated anything like this and he was a pretty crappy president himself. Stop telling yourselves that we just hate trump and are mad he won. We are mad because he is actively degrading this country.

As for 9/11, what if somebody had told you in 1998 that a bunch of dudes from the Middle East were going to destroy the World Trade Center with box cutters? That 2 American commercial jets would be used to inflict a national tragedy on par with Pearl Harbor? That we'd have to take off our shoes to get on an airplane for the rest of our lives? That was all a lot more far-fetched than what the countless ties that trump has to Russia are suggesting, and far less damaging to this nation than ceding security and control to our biggest and strongest enemy. 

You may not think that trump is handing the keys to the White House to Putin, and I don't blame you for it. It's likely not as severe as that. But isn't it worth making damned sure he's not?

[homersapien 11,354]

10 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Yeah, giving $380 million in funding in order to help with election security and technology is doing nothing. 

Ok. What else does Trump need to do?

 

For starters, admit that Russia attacked us and then act as if he wants to deal with it.

And that money - appropriated by Congress without presidential  leadership - does nothing to thwart Russia from using social media to influence our election.

 

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2017-06-09/us-isnt-doing-enough-to-stop-russian-election-hacking-in-2018-2020

An Invitation for More Hacks

The U.S. is doing strangely little to guard against Russian election hacking in 2018, 2020

 

 

[homersapien 11,354]

9 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

In a way, it's worse.  I'm not in any way attempting to diminish the loss of life, but Russia is trying to disrupt our country's very foundational core and democratic values.  If the electorate loses faith in free and fair elections, then we lose who we are as Americans.

Japan and OBL attacked objects and people.  Those are tangible.  The Russians are attacking ideals.  Those ideals are crucial to the American identity and have been since the beginning, but we can't really see and touch them.  Without those ideals and the principles for which we hold dear, the "grand experiment" will fail.  So yes, we should be sounding alarm bells loudly and in unison with regards to foreign meddling with our elections, much like we would if our country was physically attacked.

Good post.   Also, the overt attacks on Pearl Harbor and 9/11 actually united Americans. 

Trump - along with Russia's help - have divided the country like never before.

[homersapien 11,354]

8 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

We can stand firm against Russia interfering in our elections and come together to make sure our elections are secure and able to thwart foreign meddling. You'll get no disagreement from me on that but it's the hatred/bitterness over the 2016 election towards Trump that is taking things further than they need to go in regards to dealing with Russia.. Saying we shouldn't talk with Putin or talk to other leaders who are aggressive towards the U.S. is just sticking our heads in the sand and saying that we throw in the towel on diplomacy with countries who aren't our allies all because Trump is the president. 

I take Russian meddling very serious and want Russia to be dealt with but there's a fine line between taking it seriously and going further by invoking attacks which led us to war.  The left's hatred of Trump shouldn't get us to a point of escalating things towards a war with Russia.

Trump has done nothing but validate the reasons so many "hate" him.  It's not the feelings or response to Trump that are the problem, it's Trump himself.

[homersapien 11,354]

7 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Why is this framed as the alternative is war with Russia? Over what? Who on the “left” is advocating war? 

False dichotomy.  It's a cheap debating tactic.

[SaltyTiger 7,764]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

The U.S. is doing strangely little to guard against Russian election hacking in 2018, 2020

Maybe President Trump will speak with him about that this fall.

Trump invites Putin to visit Washington, White House says

[homersapien 11,354]

I kind of doubt it.

The White House announced Thursday that Vladimir Putin has been invited to Washington this fall, even as leaders in Washington tried to fully understand what happened when President Trump and the Russian leader met earlier this week in Helsinki.

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders announced the planned visit in a tweet, saying that national security adviser John Bolton extended the invitation and that “discussions are already underway.”

As the late afternoon tweet landed, Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats was on stage at the Aspen Security Forum in the middle of an interview with NBC’s Andrea Mitchell, who broke the news to him. Coats, clearly surprised, took a deep breath.

“Say that again,” he said. “Did I hear you?”

She repeated the news.

“Okaaaay,” Coats said. “That’s going to be special.”

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I kind of doubt it.

The White House announced Thursday that Vladimir Putin has been invited to Washington this fall, even as leaders in Washington tried to fully understand what happened when President Trump and the Russian leader met earlier this week in Helsinki.

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders announced the planned visit in a tweet, saying that national security adviser John Bolton extended the invitation and that “discussions are already underway.”

As the late afternoon tweet landed, Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats was on stage at the Aspen Security Forum in the middle of an interview with NBC’s Andrea Mitchell, who broke the news to him. Coats, clearly surprised, took a deep breath.

“Say that again,” he said. “Did I hear you?”

She repeated the news.

“Okaaaay,” Coats said. “That’s going to be special.”

I'm curious what his apologists expect for Americans to gain from this. 

[homersapien 11,354]

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I'm curious what his apologists expect for Americans to gain from this. 

Perhaps they expect him to convince Putin to denuclearize, just like he did Kim Jong Un.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

@McLoofus  I don't feel better by stating that Democrats would rather risk war with Russia than allow Trump to attempt diplomacy with them. People spouting off about a 9/11 emergency obviously don't think sanctions are enough. If we keep threatening Russia with retaliation then things are only going to escalate. Russia isn't going to stop meddling. Telling Putin to stop meddling or expecting them to admit to meddling is just political theater. I guess that'll make the anti-Trump folks feel better. If that's what they want then they shouldn't hold their breath. Obama agreed to a nuclear deal with Iran afters years of employing diplomacy and engaging them. That was ok though. But the left rejects such diplomacy attempts with Russia. They expect instant results in a meeting they don't even want to take place to begin with. We can't just keep threatening them and sanctioning them and expect them to back down. 

The best thing we can do for the time being is to strengthen our election security. I hope more money is given to fund technology to help protect our elections. I don't agree with the GOP for not allowing more funding. We need to do as much as we can to make sure our democratic process is secure. Trump and the GOP need to do more.

I think it's petty though to act like since I don't like the careless rhetoric being used to whip up support for taking action against Russia then I'm somehow  not taking threats seriously enough. I take threats seriously but at the same time I'm not going to conflate Russian meddling with attacks that took thousands of lives.

 

@homersapien  I've never denied that Russia meddled. After all I've stated in this thread, you somehow come to the conclusion that I don't believe that Russia meddled in our elections. All I want is a measured and tempered approach to this. Screeching about Pearl Harbor and 9/11 is careless rhetoric and doesn't unite people to combat Russian meddling. Trump and the GOP should do more I don't deny that.

 

@TexasTiger  Democrats have stated that Russian meddling/hacking is an act of war.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jul/16/richard-blumenthal-we-are-facing-a-continuing-act-/

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/19/630378107/dncs-tom-perez-on-russia-and-the-midterms

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/01/russia-meddling-us-elections-ndi-event-244414

http://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/397366-dem-rep-no-question-that-russia-hacking-effort-is-act-of-war

[McLoofus 35,182]

@Auburnfan91, the left and a hell of a lot of the right reject POTUS throwing the entire US intelligence community under the bus while absolving Russia of all wrongdoing in front of the whole world. The problem with comments like yours is that you're conflating abject capitulation- even if only, for whatever reason, for appearances- with diplomacy.

We're all for diplomacy. 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

@Auburnfan91, the left and a hell of a lot of the right reject POTUS throwing the entire US intelligence community under the bus while absolving Russia of all wrongdoing in front of the whole world. The problem with comments like yours is that you're conflating abject capitulation- even if only, for whatever reason, for appearances- with diplomacy.

We're all for diplomacy. 

He didn't throw the entire intelligence community under the bus. He opened his sentence saying he respected the men and women of them. It wasn't the right place but his disdain for the upper echelons in these agencies is well deserved.