It's not just Pearl Harbor, it's also 9/11

[AU64 10,122]

10 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

link?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/07/31/obama-should-fire-john-brennan/?utm_term=.fa648256ec9a

 

Start here and keep going....Clapper and Comey too.....lots of links if you take a few minutes to look.  http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/22/james-clapper-just-lied-again-about-his-previous-lies-about-nsa-spying/

And of course there was the time when Loretta Lynch refused to testify and Eric Holder apparently took the 5th. 

[aubiefifty 16,706]

25 minutes ago, AU64 said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/07/31/obama-should-fire-john-brennan/?utm_term=.fa648256ec9a

 

Start here and keep going....Clapper and Comey too.....lots of links if you take a few minutes to look.  http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/22/james-clapper-just-lied-again-about-his-previous-lies-about-nsa-spying/

And of course there was the time when Loretta Lynch refused to testify and Eric Holder apparently took the 5th. 

the first link would not let me progress without paying. and yes i see those adds but most let you continue. not this one. the second one about clapper has him saying he made a mistake. so how do you know he was not lying for his boss like sarah and so many others do fro trump every single day? and why do you continue to give trump a pass on the whoppers he tells? seems hypocritical to me. but just more right wing crap. trump lies every single day and has been busted a million times. jesus they had a running tab of how many he has told every single day since he is president. the thing is you give trump a pass while wanting to bang every one else. has trump or maybe even outin got a pic of you banging a chicken or something? when you decide to be honest and fair and admit to trumps lies we will talk and not before.

[TexasTiger 12,811]

3 hours ago, AU64 said:

what election assistance ?   Dems got lots of election assistance with Russian help....and the FBI...not many dems apologizing about the phony Steele report.

Stay ignant. It suits you.

[Auburn85 432]

Let's use the 9/11 standard then:

 

Bush got a warning of an imminent  attack in August 2001

Obama got a report about Russia hacking before the November 2016 election

Both did nothing

 

The New York mayor's primaries were supposed to be on September 11,2001, bu t got postponed because of what happened on 9/11

Obama didn't speak up because he was too worried about what Faux Noize and Rush Limbaugh's opinion  on what he said would be.  As if he cared what they thought the previous 7-8 years?

 

 

 

 

[homersapien 11,353]

17 minutes ago, Auburn85 said:

Let's use the 9/11 standard then:

 

Bush got a warning of an imminent  attack in August 2001

Obama got a report about Russia hacking before the November 2016 election

Both did nothing

 

The New York mayor's primaries were supposed to be on September 11,2001, bu t got postponed because of what happened on 9/11

Obama didn't speak up because he was too worried about what Faux Noize and Rush Limbaugh's opinion  on what he said would be.  As if he cared what they thought the previous 7-8 years?

Not exactly. 

Obama - fully understanding how it would be perceived if he unilaterally raised the alarm about Russia trying to help Trump - took the evidence and presented it the Republican leadership with an appeal the release it as a bilateral announcement.

They refused. 

Now, one can argue that Obama should have proceeded on his own and perhaps he should have.  But maybe he considered the possible damage it might have wreaked on the perceived legitimacy of the outcome, and decided that it would be less risky to just have it emerge after the election.  Keep in mind he probably assumed Clinton would win.

With the history of demonizing Clinton, can you imagine if she won a narrow election after Obama "interfered" in the process by revealing the Russian activity?  We might never have taken a serious investigation into the Russian interference.  We'd probably be tied up in impeachment hearings.  Russian interference would never have been taken seriously by Republicans and those who supported Trump.  The whole thing would have been assumed to be a Clinton "trick" to ensure her victory and wouldn't have been taken seriously. And Obama would have been seen to be complicit.  Not good for the country, nor for Obama's legacy.

Hell, even with Trump's victory it's being dismissed as a "witchhunt".  So even Trump winning creates a problem for the country. But at least there is a chance we will eventually address the problem.  So who knows what would have been the best thing for the country regarding Obama's decision.

[Auburn85 432]

8 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Not exactly. 

Obama - fully understanding how it would be perceived if he unilaterally raised the alarm about Russia trying to help Trump - took the evidence and presented it the Republican leadership with an appeal the release it as a bilateral announcement.

They refused. 

Now, one can argue that Obama should have proceeded on his own and perhaps he should have.  But maybe he considered the possible damage it might have wreaked on the perceived legitimacy of the outcome, and decided that it would be less risky to just have it emerge after the election.  Keep in mind he probably assumed Clinton would win.

With the history of demonizing Clinton, can you imagine if she won a narrow election after Obama "interfered" in the process by revealing the Russian activity?  We might never have taken a serious investigation into the Russian interference.  We'd probably be tied up in impeachment hearings.  Russian interference would never have been taken seriously by Republicans and those who supported Trump.  The whole thing would have been assumed to be a Clinton "trick" to ensure her victory and wouldn't have been taken seriously. And Obama would have been seen to be complicit.  Not good for the country, nor for Obama's legacy.

Hell, even with Trump's victory it's being dismissed as a "witchhunt".  So even Trump winning creates a problem for the country. But at least there is a chance we will eventually address the problem.  So who knows what would have been the best thing for the country regarding Obama's decision.

In my opinion, I would argue that this is more closer to Nixon not challenging the 1960 election despite the possible vote discrepancies in Illinois. Even had Nixon won Illinois, Kennedy would have still won.

I agree Russia tried to influence our election. I believe that the decision  to meddle came from higher ups in Russian authority. But I also believe it had little effect on the outcome.

Russia didn't influence these decisions: 

Clinton never visited Wisconsin.

Clinton spent $2 million in campaign ads in Texas

Clinton spent resources in cities such as Chicago and New Orleans to push the vote total higher. Not focused on elector college wins but rather popular vote overall. Obviously, neither Illinois or Louisiana  was a swing state.

Clinton sent Kaine to Arizona to  a Spanish speaking rally.

James Comey deciding on the eve of the election to come out and say what he said.

I agree with the notion that the media gave Trump over a $billion in free air time. But I don't buy that is was all positive air time. When someone buys campaign air time for their own campaign, they aren't going to run self-negative ads and do the dirty work for their opponent.

In that $1 billion worth of free air time it also  included : The pu**y tape, the pee tape, discrimination lawsuits, bankruptcies, being on his 3rd marriage, and so forth. All fair game, but no way I'm counting that in the tally of free air time, as if it was to his advantage.

[SaltyTiger 7,764]

20 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Putin/Trump. 

Thought about that one to Tex. sad but would still beat anything the dems have come up with....Think about it, rally season is right around the corner. 

You know how fired up all of us trumpbots and cultist get.

[homersapien 11,353]

8 hours ago, Auburn85 said:

In my opinion, I would argue that this is more closer to Nixon not challenging the 1960 election despite the possible vote discrepancies in Illinois. Even had Nixon won Illinois, Kennedy would have still won.

I agree Russia tried to influence our election. I believe that the decision  to meddle came from higher ups in Russian authority. But I also believe it had little effect on the outcome.

Russia didn't influence these decisions: 

Clinton never visited Wisconsin.

Clinton spent $2 million in campaign ads in Texas

Clinton spent resources in cities such as Chicago and New Orleans to push the vote total higher. Not focused on elector college wins but rather popular vote overall. Obviously, neither Illinois or Louisiana  was a swing state.

Clinton sent Kaine to Arizona to  a Spanish speaking rally.

James Comey deciding on the eve of the election to come out and say what he said.

I agree with the notion that the media gave Trump over a $billion in free air time. But I don't buy that is was all positive air time. When someone buys campaign air time for their own campaign, they aren't going to run self-negative ads and do the dirty work for their opponent.

In that $1 billion worth of free air time it also  included : The pu**y tape, the pee tape, discrimination lawsuits, bankruptcies, being on his 3rd marriage, and so forth. All fair game, but no way I'm counting that in the tally of free air time, as if it was to his advantage.

Those are all good points. 

But my only point is that the argument that Obama is somehow solely responsible for our current situation regarding the fact and threat of Russian involvement is not really valid.  It was a factor, but it didn't determine where we are today.  It's been two years.

[japantiger 4,051]

17 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Why do I feel your opinion would be very different if a Dem were cozying up to Russian’s for election assistance? 

Simple, if a Dem was doing it, you'd give away the farm and ship our adversaries $150b to fund their ongoing nuclear and missile efforts.  

[TexasTiger 12,811]

18 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Simple, if a Dem was doing it, you'd give away the farm and ship our adversaries $150b to fund their ongoing nuclear and missile efforts.  

Bet you never thought you’d be defending a President for be submissive to a Russian President, did you?

[Mikey 16,550]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Bet you never thought you’d be defending a President for be submissive to a Russian President, did you?

Submissive? What a joke. Trump has lifted Obama's pro-Putin arms embargo and has since sent/approved 240 million in military aid to Ukraine so they can better fight Russia. Trump turned our military loose in Syria and they recently killed a LOT of Russian soldiers in air strikes. That's not submissive. How silly of the dems to try to push the submissive lie. Like most of their other stuff, this lie isn't strong enough to hold the water from a baby bottle.

[TexasTiger 12,811]

Just now, Mikey said:

Submissive? What a joke. Trump has lifted Obama's pro-Putin arms embargo and has since sent/approved 240 million in military aid to Ukraine so they can better fight Russia. Trump turned our military loose in Syria and they recently killed a LOT of Russian soldiers in air strikes. That's not submissive. How silly of the dems to try to push the submissive lie. Like most of their other stuff, this lie isn't strong enough to hold the water from a baby bottle.

?

[Mikey 16,550]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

?

Do you want me to post the link about the Ukraine again? I know you lefties are a little on the slow side, do you need to read it twice?

[TexasTiger 12,811]

7 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Do you want me to post the link about the Ukraine again? I know you lefties are a little on the slow side, do you need to read it twice?

?

[Mikey 16,550]

@Proud Tiger, this here Texican is sailing up the river of de-nile. They need another new play-pretty. It seems they go through one a week, still trying and failing to find something valid.

[TexasTiger 12,811]

29 minutes ago, Mikey said:

@Proud Tiger, this here Texican is sailing up the river of de-nile. They need another new play-pretty. It seems they go through one a week, still trying and failing to find something valid.

August will rock your world.

[Mikey 16,550]

8 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

August will rock your world.

Hillary will claim that women only vote for the candidate their husbands tell them to vote for, and she'll add that all husbands are misogynists? I think we've been through that episode of "Laugh In" already!

[japantiger 4,051]

15 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Bet you never thought you’d be defending a President for be submissive to a Russian President, did you?

Actually I never thought I would have to argue inane democrat talking points with a college graduate.  Look at the facts dude...you guys lost the election and still can't come to terms with it...you should be well past the denial stage now...

[TexasTiger 12,811]

54 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Actually I never thought I would have to argue inane democrat talking points with a college graduate.  Look at the facts dude...you guys lost the election and still can't come to terms with it...you should be well past the denial stage now...

The Republicans and other conservatives not in denial see exactly the same thing I do. The tribalistic cultists are another matter. 

[homersapien 11,353]

17 hours ago, japantiger said:

Simple, if a Dem was doing it, you'd give away the farm and ship our adversaries $150b to fund their ongoing nuclear and missile efforts.  

Yeah, a treaty that is still working.

[homersapien 11,353]

1 hour ago, japantiger said:

Actually I never thought I would have to argue inane democrat talking points with a college graduate.  Look at the facts dude...you guys lost the election and still can't come to terms with it...you should be well past the denial stage now...

I just love when a Trumpette lectures others on denial.

[homersapien 11,353]

15 hours ago, Mikey said:

Do you want me to post the link about the Ukraine again? I know you lefties are a little on the slow side, do you need to read it twice?

Tell us what came out of the Trump/Putin discussion on Ukraine.  The Russkies claimed we agreed to a referendum. 

[japantiger 4,051]

[homersapien 11,353]

2 minutes ago, japantiger said:

That's dumb.

Things change.  Independent countries get invaded by Russia.  Cyber attacks on our country occur by Russia.  Russian interferes with our election via social media.

And it's not like the problem is simply "Trump met with Putin".

[japantiger 4,051]

Aw Homey...we actually have common ground here....circumstances do change...

Obama was so naive he didn't believe Russia was a serious adversary and openly mocked anyone who did.  His sent his equally hapless and  incompetent Sec of State out on a half-assed and misspelled effort to suck up to Russia (my God; she was such an idiot she didn't even know what the damn button said) ; stood idly by while Russia reacted to his effete foreign policy by overrunning the Crimea, entered the Ukraine; helped Assad defy his Syria red-line; promised them "more flexibility after an election" and then when they attacked our electoral system Obama chose inaction for some inexplicable reason.  The foundation of our democracy is attacked; and the man who constitutionally is charged with protecting us; sets on his hands and doesn't lift a finger.  And finally, after the horse was well out of the barn; and two weeks before he left office; after 8 years of giving Putin hand jobs; Obama decided it was time to impose sanctions. 

So far, Trump has imposed sanctions, expelled diplomats and spies, shut down consulates, given $240m of funds to the Ukraine to kill Russians and we have killed hundreds of Russians that attacked our forces in Syria.   

So yeah, times are pretty different.  The former president appeased the Russians in 8 years of interactions.  The other is both funding our allies who can kill Russians with the arms we are giving them and is outright killing Russians;  while he starts his own dialogue with Putin.  Which one do you think has Putin's attention?    Let me give you a hint; I hear he listens more to people who use correct spelling....