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Why Can’t Trump Just Condemn Nazis?


homersapien

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David Duke "got it":

 

https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138358/charlottesville-protests-david-duke-kkk

"Why we voted for Donald Trump": David Duke explains the white supremacist Charlottesville protests

 

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/politics/donald-trump-david-duke-charlottesville/

Trump's defense of the 'very fine people' at Charlottesville white nationalist march has David Duke gushing

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

Weird, since my wording was literally "Everyone in the world" right up till the last sentence

...but you heard only Homer.

 

2nd I explained in my post what I was doing with the italics, either whine to an admin about it or get over it. Just quit whining to me.... It's very disingenuous. :) 

It's pretty obvious that "everyone on the world" is purely rhetorical, but "Homer:"  is not.

I don't understand half of what you write. It often comes across as some sort of free association.
 

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On 8/13/2018 at 5:43 PM, homersapien said:

And to my original point, Trump cannot single out White Supremacists as unacceptable because he doesn't want to upset his base

16 hours ago, Mims44 said:

I've seen you say this or something similar many times.

Do you believe there are enough white supremacists in the US to win a presidential election (and damn near a majority vote)?

If you had to take a guess, what percentage of trump voters (his base) are white supremacists?

 

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Similar to what?

 

lmao, similar to exactly what you said, which I quoted exactly... and somehow you are lost again. Goofball :)

 

54 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I don't understand half of what you write. It often comes across as some sort of free association.

I'm willing to guess you don't understand half of what anyone writes.

How many times do you ask the magic speaker box to explain exactly what a "Big Mac" is before ordering a meal?

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1 hour ago, Mims44 said:

And to my original point, Trump cannot single out White Supremacists as unacceptable because he doesn't want to upset his base

 

 

lmao, similar to exactly what you said, which I quoted exactly... and somehow you are lost again. Goofball :)

 

 

I'm willing to guess you don't understand half of what anyone writes.

How many times do you ask the magic speaker box to explain exactly what a "Big Mac" is before ordering a meal?

First, are you implying I said Trump supporters are white supremacists?   I didn't say that.

Secondly, italics, colors and bold formatting don't help to clarify your point.  What might help would be for you to ask for clarification or to confirm your understanding of what I meant before running with your interpretation.

Thirdly, it's not my fault I find your style cryptic.  You've made two efforts to explain it and I still don't get it.

 

 

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5 hours ago, homersapien said:

While Trump clearly thinks there is a direct benefit of not condemning white supremacist dogma,  I don't understand how people on this forum could perceive "direct benefit" of refraining from doing so. 

Does Trump unequivocally condone white supremacist dogma? I would think an answer in the affirmative would be necessary to espouse what you purport.

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On 8/15/2018 at 3:16 PM, homersapien said:

Only Trump would need for someone else to write a criticism of white supremacists.

Actually, Obama made two notable speeches on race...that came from his Director's of Speechwriting...he had two of them during his term.  You're just foolish Homey....this guy doesn't just occupy space in your brain....he has built an entire city ....

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holy crap, this is my last attempt to point this simple, simple, SO SIMPLE thing out.

 

You said " Trump cannot single out White Supremacists as unacceptable because he doesn't want to upset his base"

In politics, the term base refers to a group of voters who almost always support a single party's candidates for elected office.... which would mean "trump supporters" in this statement.

*******

I said that in addition to the above you had shared similar thoughts before.

This confused you to no end, either you did not immediately recognize what the word similar means or you did not think you had ever correlated Trumps base to Trumps fear of angering white supremacists before.

*******

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

First, are you implying I said Trump supporters are white supremacists?   I didn't say that.

Thirdly, it's not my fault I find your style cryptic.  You've made two efforts to explain it and I still don't get it.

 

And I did not imply you said anything, I used your exact words and asked a question. If Trump refuses to denounce white supremacists because he doesn't want to upset his base (IE: HIS SUPPORTERS) what percentage of his base do you believe are white supremacists? It was an easy enough question and you still answered despite being flabbergasted by what I meant by using the word similar.

 

 

And that is just dissecting one thing you did not understand

++++++

In my other post I said too many people have said this, so quoting them all would take forever. I then used the placeholder for all those people as "Everyone in the world" You again were completely lost and read "everyone in the world" as meaning "homer", you then decided in your post to tell me that it wasn't just you, it was half the country that made remarks correlating Trump to white supremacy....

Can you grasp the disconnect there? I say things like "too many people have done this to quote them all" and "everyone in the world". Then you respond by telling me that it wasn't just you, it was in fact half the world.

I feel like I'm going around and around here but let me reiterate one more time. When I say "too many people..." or "everyone in the world" I did not mean Homer, and only Homer and no one else that exists, has ever existed or will ever exist.

 

 

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17 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Does Trump unequivocally condone white supremacist dogma? I would think an answer in the affirmative would be necessary to espouse what you purport.

That's not true.  I am saying he equivocated white racists with counter protestors in order to pander to his largely racist base.  He didn't have to believe in white supremacist dogma anymore than George Wallace did.

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17 hours ago, japantiger said:

Actually, Obama made two notable speeches on race...that came from his Director's of Speechwriting...he had two of them during his term.  You're just foolish Homey....this guy doesn't just occupy space in your brain....he has built an entire city ....

But Obama.....:rolleyes: 

Trump didn't make a speech after Charlottesville, he simply provided his own, off-the-cuff personal reaction.  It was the walk-back that required writers.

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10 minutes ago, homersapien said:

But Obama.....:rolleyes: 

Trump didn't make a speech after Charlottesville, he simply provided his own, off-the-cuff personal reaction.  It was the walk-back that required writers.

It was a direct redponse to your assertion that only Trump had every used a speechwriter to speak about race.....just pointing out the inaccuracies in your usually weak assertions.  I think he just  added another suburb to that city....

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33 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

holy crap, this is my last attempt to point this simple, simple, SO SIMPLE thing out.

 

You said " Trump cannot single out White Supremacists as unacceptable because he doesn't want to upset his base"

In politics, the term base refers to a group of voters who almost always support a single party's candidates for elected office.... which would mean "trump supporters" in this statement.

*******

I said that in addition to the above you had shared similar thoughts before.

This confused you to no end, either you did not immediately recognize what the word similar means or you did not think you had ever correlated Trumps base to Trumps fear of angering white supremacists before.

*******

And I did not imply you said anything, I used your exact words and asked a question. If Trump refuses to denounce white supremacists because he doesn't want to upset his base (IE: HIS SUPPORTERS) what percentage of his base do you believe are white supremacists? It was an easy enough question and you still answered despite being flabbergasted by what I meant by using the word similar.

 

 

And that is just dissecting one thing you did not understand

++++++

In my other post I said too many people have said this, so quoting them all would take forever. I then used the placeholder for all those people as "Everyone in the world" You again were completely lost and read "everyone in the world" as meaning "homer", you then decided in your post to tell me that it wasn't just you, it was half the country that made remarks correlating Trump to white supremacy....

Can you grasp the disconnect there? I say things like "too many people have done this to quote them all" and "everyone in the world". Then you respond by telling me that it wasn't just you, it was in fact half the world.

I feel like I'm going around and around here but let me reiterate one more time. When I say "too many people..." or "everyone in the world" I did not mean Homer, and only Homer and no one else that exists, has ever existed or will ever exist.

 

 

 

You wrote: Homer: Everything he says that could be perceived as being against racism or white racists is secretly a *wink wink nod nod* to all his white supremacist followers.

 

And I discussed the segment of supporters Trump was pandering to with references:

 

I don't know how many of Trump supporters are self-identified "white supremacists"; I suspect it's not many as there don't seem to be that many people who self-identify as such. Again, this is why I don't understand why he didn't immediately single out Nazis and white supremacists immediately.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if a significant percent of Trump supporters have feelings related to "status insecurity".  There have been several articles that have looked at this. (see below).

 

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20 minutes ago, japantiger said:

It was a direct redponse to your assertion that only Trump had every used a speechwriter to speak about race.....just pointing out the inaccuracies in your usually weak assertions.  I think he just  added another suburb to that city....

Speaking of inaccuracies, I didn't say that. 

I said:  "Only Trump would need for someone else to write a criticism of white supremacists."

I was referring to a simple statement, not speeches or speechwriters.  Do you really think he came up with his wals back statement on his own? 

Do you really think any other POTUS in modern history would need someone to write a simple statement on their opinion of Nazis and White Supremacists? 

Only Trump. 

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7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

 

You wrote: Homer: Everything he says that could be perceived as being against racism or white racists is secretly a *wink wink nod nod* to all his white supremacist followers.

 

And I discussed the segment of supporters Trump was pandering to with references:

 

I don't know how many of Trump supporters are self-identified "white supremacists"; I suspect it's not many as there don't seem to be that many people who self-identify as such. Again, this is why I don't understand why he didn't immediately single out Nazis and white supremacists immediately.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if a significant percent of Trump supporters have feelings related to "status insecurity".  There have been several articles that have looked at this. (see below).

 

American Preservationists (20 percent) (taken from one of those articles)

So would your guess be 20% or lower of Trump supporters are white supremacists?

 

 

 

The NYT line is a bit misleading as well. It points more to a fear of being on the receiving end of discrimination as being the motivation to vote for trump (they also cover a base of trump supporters who left Hillary due to economic and global factors). Which is different than believing in your races supremacy.

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8 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

American Preservationists (20 percent) (taken from one of those articles)

So would your guess be 20% or lower of Trump supporters are white supremacists?

 

 

 

The NYT line is a bit misleading as well. It points more to a fear of being on the receiving end of discrimination as being the motivation to vote for trump (they also cover a base of trump supporters who left Hillary due to economic and global factors). Which is different than believing in your races supremacy.

1) Do American Preservationists = white supremacists?  :dunno:

I think I covered my personal opinion about the number of white supremacists in the Trump camp.  Did you even read it?

 

 

2) That's a distinction without a difference:  "Jews/You(?)  will not replace us".  While not an expert, I am pretty sure White Supremacy dogma is largely based on fear and a sense of being threatened.

 

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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

2) That's a distinction without a difference:  "Jews/You(?)  will not replace us".  While not an expert, I am pretty sure White Supremacy dogma is largely based on fear and a sense of being threatened.

Fear of persecution does not equal thoughts of supremacy. The way it was put by someone in that article was a fear that the pendulum of discrimination was not swinging from black people to center, but swinging from black people to white.

EDIT: There's also precedence for such fear, depending on where they look and what they read.

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3 hours ago, Mims44 said:

Fear of persecution does not equal thoughts of supremacy. The way it was put by someone in that article was a fear that the pendulum of discrimination was not swinging from black people to center, but swinging from black people to white.

EDIT: There's also precedence for such fear, depending on where they look and what they read.

OK

But fear of persecution = fear of the "pendulum of discrimination". Either way, adopting white supremacist dogma is an obvious way of reacting to such fears.

I don't get the nuance.  Is there a point?

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4 hours ago, homersapien said:

OK

But fear of persecution = fear of the "pendulum of discrimination". Either way, adopting white supremacist dogma is an obvious way of reacting to such fears.

I don't get the nuance.  Is there a point?

That is one of a plethora of options for reacting to those fears. I am not arguing that NO ONE will adopt racist beliefs because of it. Just saying the opposite is also not true.

To flip the script, has every black person afraid of discrimination became a black supremacist? Sure, SOME have... but there are many different avenues to take.

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18 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

That is one of a plethora of options for reacting to those fears. I am not arguing that NO ONE will adopt racist beliefs because of it. Just saying the opposite is also not true.

To flip the script, has every black person afraid of discrimination became a black supremacist? Sure, SOME have... but there are many different avenues to take.

Have I said anything differently?

And black people don't "fear" discrimination because they experience it. 

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10 hours ago, homersapien said:

Have I said anything differently?

And black people don't "fear" discrimination because they experience it. 

What? You surely can fear something that you experience. Hell the experience can make you fear it more. Not to sound too Star Warsy, but that fear can turn to anger and hate real quick.

 

I get several messages from old friends that would probably cause fear for at least some white folk. I didn't ask for them, I just don't ever reply to anything on facebook... and some people have taken my silence to mean I'm down for the cause. To clarify... I'm not, I've always believed we grow as a country and as a people by learning from our mistakes, putting it behind us, and then moving forward... not dwelling on the mistakes or mistreatment forever.

 

Here's a few excerpts Homer from the past week or so...

TAKE ACTION FOR JUSTICE: Last week, unarmed Black man Markeis McGlockton was taken from his long-time partner and their three children after being shot dead during an altercation with a white vigilante.

Dirty. Inhuman… These were the words used to encourage violence against Black people for just trying to swim in a public pool!

Remember, a tiger can't change it's stripes.

When 24 year old Recy Taylor was raped by 6 white boys, the system of white supremacy swept it under the rug.

It's time to fight back!

With racist events happening everyday, self-defense is necessary to protect ourselves and our communities.

One city’s police department was exposed for injecting Black suspects with a drug that causes heart failure.

Killing Black people under the guise of justice is a long American tradition. Today, there is “police brutality” but in the early 20th century, there was lynching.

Whites don't change, they just change the names of what they do.

An “all-white” church in Georgia was recently banned from the Southern Baptist Convention due to their overt racism toward Black members. Sadly, this form of racial discrimination has been common practice in Christian America.

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21 hours ago, homersapien said:

1) Do American Preservationists = white supremacists?  :dunno:

I think I covered my personal opinion about the number of white supremacists in the Trump camp.  Did you even read it?

 

 

2) That's a distinction without a difference:  "Jews/You(?)  will not replace us".  While not an expert, I am pretty sure White Supremacy dogma is largely based on fear and a sense of being threatened.

 

I guess you failed to read the part of the article that said until 2016 these folks were all democrats....

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2 hours ago, Mims44 said:

What? You surely can fear something that you experience. Hell the experience can make you fear it more. Not to sound too Star Warsy, but that fear can turn to anger and hate real quick.

 

I get several messages from old friends that would probably cause fear for at least some white folk. I didn't ask for them, I just don't ever reply to anything on facebook... and some people have taken my silence to mean I'm down for the cause. To clarify... I'm not, I've always believed we grow as a country and as a people by learning from our mistakes, putting it behind us, and then moving forward... not dwelling on the mistakes or mistreatment forever.

 

Here's a few excerpts Homer from the past week or so...

TAKE ACTION FOR JUSTICE: Last week, unarmed Black man Markeis McGlockton was taken from his long-time partner and their three children after being shot dead during an altercation with a white vigilante.

Dirty. Inhuman… These were the words used to encourage violence against Black people for just trying to swim in a public pool!

Remember, a tiger can't change it's stripes.

When 24 year old Recy Taylor was raped by 6 white boys, the system of white supremacy swept it under the rug.

It's time to fight back!

With racist events happening everyday, self-defense is necessary to protect ourselves and our communities.

One city’s police department was exposed for injecting Black suspects with a drug that causes heart failure.

Killing Black people under the guise of justice is a long American tradition. Today, there is “police brutality” but in the early 20th century, there was lynching.

Whites don't change, they just change the names of what they do.------you were doing OK until here. you just put all whites into one category which is hypocritical and racist to your fundamental treatise. JMHO.

An “all-white” church in Georgia was recently banned from the Southern Baptist Convention due to their overt racism toward Black members. Sadly, this form of racial discrimination has been common practice in Christian America.

 

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The fact that a church was banned by the Southern Baptist Convention should tell you more about Christian America than the "all white" church that was cast out. 

Christian America ...if you know your American history, you find that black and white churches were the primary troops in the civil rights movement in the US all the way back to the civil war and before.     Churches (home office)  have a difficult or maybe impossible task of directing their many members   Churches have philosophies and such but individual members typically go their own ways.....and I'm thinking predominantly black churches as well as predominantly white churches.    

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