2018 Fall Camp - Final Scrimmage

[AUsince72 11,084]

11 hours ago, AURex said:

" I think the first three or four games will tell us where we're at."

?

 

 

I totally agree with him.

........ unfortunately........

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 hours ago, kd4au said:

I don't know what changed Gus from the Gus that played Dyer in 2010 as a true freshman to the Gus that won't play anyone other than the #1 back , but something must have, maybe it was Roc Thomas.

Pre-emptive TL;DR: 2015 messed with his head and he's only now getting his confidence back.

My guess has always been that there is pre-2015 Gus and post-2015 Gus. I can hear the snickers and I get it, but I really don't think it can be said enough just how many ways things went wrong for Gus that season, and very little of it was of his doing.

-Jakell Mitchell, RIP, was murdered in December 2014.
-18 seniors left. 17 guys were either drafted or got a FA contract in the NFL, including QB1, RBs 1 and 2, WR1, TE1, 2 four-year starters on the OL including a Rimington-winning center, numerous guys on defense...
-Jeremy Johnson
-Duke Williams
-Jovon Robinson (spent most of the season in the doghouse)
-Elijah Daniel, one of our most highly rated recruits for that class, was dismissed
-Byron Cowart, one of our most highly ranked recruits ever, was more or less a bust
-Roc Thomas, a young 5* RB, couldn't hold onto the ball and spent much of the season in the tub

That's just off the top of my head. 

That was in Gus's 10th season in CFB in any capacity, and only his 4th as a head coach. He was only 2 years removed from being in the national title game and only 5 years removed from winning it all as an OC at this same school. I have to imagine that experience really affected him. He would be inhuman to have not gotten shook by that. And it is my strongly held opinion that almost every decision since that many of us have deemed poor has been confidence and/or trust related. He didn't trust himself or his team at all against Clemson in 2016. He didn't trust his QBs at all that season (and whether it was through their play on the field or their behavior off it, they didn't give him much reason to). He didn't trust his QB or OC for the first part of 2017. He didn't trust his offense to do anything without fumbling or throwing away the ball in  the 2nd half of the LSU game. And I think that was the straw that finally broke his back and led to what eventually became that November run. My only real issue after that was the way he handled the RB position in the SECCG, and there are many indications that he realizes the mistakes that were made that night. 

 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 hours ago, DAG said:

Just put the best players in despite size, youth , etc and give them a reason for you to not trust them. Seems like the best strategy.

You're exactly right. He has to quit assuming something bad will happen and coaching scared. I think he's coming around.

[Win4AU 4,052]

23 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

I totally agree with him.

........ unfortunately........

After Auburn squeaks by Udub it will begin to click against a terrible Alabama state team.  It’ll all come together in game 3 with the complete destruction on LSU.  Offense will have full sails at that point.

[DAG 33,954]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Not trying to be disagreeable here but....That strategy means they fumble/drop a pass/miss a tackle and then get taken out of the game. That's closing the barn door after the cows got out. How many such failures result in a lost game? Finding out who is reliable is what practice is for. Big games are too late for experimentation.

Well when you hear practice reports of guys making big plays and they get no pub kind of makes you wonder what is actually going on in practice . Mistakes are going to be made. Put the best person out there. That is part of the reason why it seems like it takes us 3-4 games to find an identity in my opinion. It is almost like Gus is using analytics instead of putting the best 11 out there. He seems to prioritize certain things over others and if you do that certain thing better then you get the nod. 

And unfortunately, you can’t say big games aren’t for experimenting when you have had an head coach who has done some of the most mind boggling  things in big games the last couple of years all due to not TRUSTING. Eventually, you got to try something else.

[I_M4_AU 7,760]

12 hours ago, kd4au said:

I don't know what changed Gus from the Gus that played Dyer in 2010 as a true freshman to the Gus that won't play anyone other than the #1 back , but something must have, maybe it was Roc Thomas.

This is actually an easy one, IMO.  Gus was an OC in 2010 and he was allowed to manage the offense as he saw fit.  Gene Chizik allowed him to take responsibility for the offense and Gus didn’t have to worry about the whole team.  Fast forward to 2013 and now Gus is the HC and responsible for the entire product.  After the 2013 season (what a season that was) he started to realize it’s really not that easy and his responsibilities have changed.  People have a tendency to go conservative when they step up in pay grade and responsiblity. What they were able to do as an underling may not work anymore.  Now they realize their world has expanded and start to micro manage.  Gus, let the force be with you, trust in yourself.

We’ll know what we’ve got in 3 or 4 weeks.

[AUsince72 11,084]

18 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

After Auburn squeaks by Udub it will begin to click against a terrible Alabama state team.  It’ll all come together in game 3 with the complete destruction on LSU.  Offense will have full sails at that point.

That is actually my "expectation" as well, such as it is.

Even if AU were to destroy UW, I won't be totally confident in the HC's ability to allow his OC to keep the foot on the gas ("Beat th' Dawgcrap Outta'em" Gus) until they continue the pace past LSU, and maybe even Arky.

I believe by the final score of the Arky game we'll have a good idea of what the team will really be made up of.....or rather what Gus ALLOWS them to be made of.

[McLoofus 35,182]

30 minutes ago, DAG said:

Well when you hear practice reports of guys making big plays and they get no pub kind of makes you wonder what is actually going on in practice . Mistakes are going to be made. Put the best person out there. That is part of the reason why it seems like it takes us 3-4 games to find an identity in my opinion. It is almost like Gus is using analytics instead of putting the best 11 out there. He seems to prioritize certain things over others and if you do that certain thing better then you get the nod. 

And unfortunately, you can’t say big games aren’t for experimenting when you have had an head coach who has done some of the most mind boggling  things in big games the last couple of years all due to not TRUSTING. Eventually, you got to try something else.

Bingo. Clemson 2016 alone pretty much shatters that excuse. 

[DAG 33,954]

Just now, McLoofus said:

Bingo. Clemson 2016 alone pretty much shatters that excuse. 

Well I think we saw the analytical version of Gus. He legitimately was playing each QB based on the probability of how successful their skill set would allow for a play to have success. 3rd and immediate was for SW. Early downs were for JJ. Short yardage was for JF3 (used more as a decoy).  That is a trust issue big time, instead of going with one guy and acknowledging he will have his faults , but also his PROs.

You look at last season..the first couple of games, you can see the principles allowed throughout the season were not the same that we saw in the opener and definitely not against Clemson. And then you look at the LSU game..the safe bet is to run with your primary playmaker in K.J. I get it but that’s not always a recipe for winning games.

[IronMan70 3,277]

The lack of making decisions on the RB and OL is of a tad concern to me because I've always thought that to be 'one' of the reasons we sometimes have slow starts. I remember them saying they were going to make the decision on the starting OL early so they could get the reps they need as a unit. I was encouraged by that.

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

The lack of making a decision on the RB and OL is of concern and one of the reasons we have slow starts imo. I remember them saying they were going to make the decision on the starting OL early so they could get the reps they need as a unit and being encouraged by that.

Yeah. It's weird that they were so adamant about announcing one, and now they just keep saying they're getting closer every day. It seems like they've known for a week what the starting lineup is, and maybe everyone involved already knows. But why the incessant misdirection with the media? Even though it's expected behavior at this point, it's still very tiresome. 

[boisnumber1 2,817]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Yeah. It's weird that they were so adamant about announcing one, and now they just keep saying they're getting closer every day. It seems like they've known for a week what the starting lineup is, and maybe everyone involved already knows. But why the incessant misdirection with the media? Even though it's expected behavior at this point, it's still very tiresome. 

Seems to me the decision has been made, maybe just keeping the backups working hard and focused. Idk. The lineup has been consistent since the scrimmages have started, so Im not worried about it.

[PoetTiger 1,896]

4 hours ago, McLoofus said:

You're exactly right. He has to quit assuming something bad will happen and coaching scared. I think he's coming around.

I don’t think he’s coaching scared...he knows what his guys can do. If you mess up in practice it’s a pretty good chance you will when the lights come on.

[GBAU83 212]

4 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Yeah. It's weird that they were so adamant about announcing one, and now they just keep saying they're getting closer every day. It seems like they've known for a week what the starting lineup is, and maybe everyone involved already knows. But why the incessant misdirection with the media? Even though it's expected behavior at this point, it's still very tiresome. 

I think the team, players, caches all know.  Heck Grimes even said if we played today the O-line would be.... and he named the five.  I am sure starting RB will be KMart (experience factor).  To me it is just Gus not "announcing" to the media and keeping the 2's hungry.  I am pretty sure the practices over the next two weeks will be consistent with starters and initial 2s.  I just believe Gus doesn't like to announce it so he can change his mind if needed and supposedly keeps the other teams wondering.

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, GBAU83 said:

I think the team, players, caches all know.  Heck Grimes even said if we played today the O-line would be.... and he named the five.  I am sure starting RB will be KMart (experience factor).  To me it is just Gus not "announcing" to the media and keeping the 2's hungry.  I am pretty sure the practices over the next two weeks will be consistent with starters and initial 2s.  I just believe Gus doesn't like to announce it so he can change his mind if needed and supposedly keeps the other teams wondering.

Agree with all. That last part is just frustrating. I think the Auburn beat at least somewhat agrees. 

[Mikey 16,545]

1 hour ago, PoetTiger said:

If you mess up in practice it’s a pretty good chance you will when the lights come on.

Exactly! Players earn "trust" by not screwing up in practice. Any of us who have coached have had a player or two every year that really showed promise and you'd like to get him into a game. But if you put him at 3rd base in practice and he boots two out of five grounders, you put him in left field in practice and he muffs two out of five fly balls, you put him at pitcher in practice and he walks half the batters, can you depend on him in a game? No, you cannot. He has not earned any trust and it doesn't matter how fast he can run or how hard he can throw, he belongs on the bench.

[jAUSon 2,836]

Looks like Coach is getting ready to trust KMart's ass off.

[PoetTiger 1,896]

7 hours ago, Win4AU said:

After Auburn squeaks by Udub it will begin to click against a terrible Alabama state team.  It’ll all come together in game 3 with the complete destruction on LSU.  Offense will have full sails at that point.

UW is ranked #6...I’ll be happy with squeaking by, but I hope the scoreboard breaks when LSU comes to town....

[DAG 33,954]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Exactly! Players earn "trust" by not screwing up in practice. Any of us who have coached have had a player or two every year that really showed promise and you'd like to get him into a game. But if you put him at 3rd base in practice and he boots two out of five grounders, you put him in left field in practice and he muffs two out of five fly balls, you put him at pitcher in practice and he walks half the batters, can you depend on him in a game? No, you cannot. He has not earned any trust and it doesn't matter how fast he can run or how hard he can throw, he belongs on the bench.

Any of us who have played know you don’t play 3 QBs in one game. Any one of us who have played know you don’t start an injured player who hasn’t practiced leading into that game. Any of us who has played know you don’t run hb dive 20 straight times. So if your evaluation is players don’t play because they aren’t getting it done in practice my counter argument is I don’t trust CGM evaluation in playing the best 11 players when it is all said in done. Seth Williams has had nothing but get good commentary about how he has played in practice and the scrimmages. There is no reason why he should not be out there and targeted when we play Washington.

[WFE12 9,191]

 

[augolf1716 21,093]

11 minutes ago, DAG said:

Any of us who have played know you don’t play 3 QBs in one game. Any one of us who have played know you don’t start an injured player who hasn’t practiced in a game. Any of us who has played know you don’t run hb dive 20 straight times. So if your evaluation is players don’t play because they aren’t getting it done in practice my counter argument is I don’t trust CGM evaluation in playing the best 11 players when it is all said in done. Seth Williams has had nothing but good commentary about how he has played in practice and the scrimmages. There is no reason why he should not be out there and targeted when we play Washington.

Also any one of us would not have changed the game plan the week of the game

[DAG 33,954]

Just now, augolf1716 said:

Also any one of us would not have changed the game plan the week of the game

I keep forgetting that...that is almost unbelievable. I am not trying to bash CGM, but I do believe we need to get to the point of just playing the best 11. If a true freshman is better than the the others guy who played last year, then yes, thus freshman should get the nudge to play until he has proven otherwise. The idea that it is practice from keeping him from playing I feel has been debunked on the basis of past decisions.

[McLoofus 35,182]

20 minutes ago, DAG said:

Any of us who have played know you don’t play 3 QBs in one game. Any one of us who have played know you don’t start an injured player who hasn’t practiced in a game. Any of us who has played know you don’t run hb dive 20 straight times. So if your evaluation is players don’t play because they aren’t getting it done in practice my counter argument is I don’t trust CGM evaluation in playing the best 11 players when it is all said in done. Seth Williams has had nothing but good commentary about how he has played in practice and the scrimmages. There is no reason why he should not be out there and targeted when we play Washington.

 

7 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Also any one of us would not have changed the game plan the week of the game

How dare you guys question the architect of the last 2 Clemson masterpieces.

[bigbird 60,367]

3 hours ago, PoetTiger said:

If you mess up in practice it’s a pretty good chance you will when the lights come on.

Not necessarily.  They're called gamers for a reason...

[fredst 9,064]

14 minutes ago, DAG said:

I keep forgetting that...that is almost unbelievable. I am not trying to bash CGM, but I do believe we need to get to the point of just playing the best 11. If a true freshman is better than the the others guy who played last year, then yes, thus freshman should get the nudge to play until he has proven otherwise. The idea that it is practice from keeping him from playing I feel has been debunked on the basis of past decisions.

Say what you will but this is what Saban has done well- get young/inexperienced guys live reps that count and play the guys that are the best regardless of seniority. Hope our talent depth allows us to start doing that to some extent (I realize Saban is playing with a different deck of cards than almost every other program)