bigbird

When and when not to look for the ball.

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So not staying in phase would be more the issue of an average fan like myself I’m guessing than actual not turning the head. Regardless, it appears we had several breakdowns that need to be addressed. Good info sir. 

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9 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Alright so here it goes. There is always confusion and complaining about DBs and why they are not looking back for the ball. Hopefully this will help clear some of it up.

The answer is different for each player, but concept remains the same. Basically, the rule is, when a DB is in phase, and in a position of control they can turn and find the ball.

Well, what does that mean?

In phase vs out of phase.

In phase means the DB is running hip to hip with the receiver. Out of phase means the DB is trailing and trying to catch up to the WR.

Position of control

Typically, the position of control is when the DBs shoulder is ahead of the receiver or when you can read his opposite number.  The DB can affect the receivers speed and route and therefore can control the receiver. From this position, a DB can "lean and locate".  By feeling the receiver with your off arm and body you are assured not to lose him.

 

If the DB is not in phase and in a position of control and he looks back, he slows down and the separation increases.  The DB should keep eyes on the receiver, track him down, and play the ball through the basket by raking or clubbing when the ball arrives.

Any questions, ask away.

Great explanation Bird, and one of the most needed threads of the day.

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27 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Alright so here it goes. There is always confusion and complaining about DBs and why they are not looking back for the ball. Hopefully this will help clear some of it up.

The answer is different for each player, but concept remains the same. Basically, the rule is, when a DB is in phase, and in a position of control they can turn and find the ball.

Well, what does that mean?

In phase vs out of phase.

In phase means the DB is running hip to hip with the receiver. Out of phase means the DB is trailing and trying to catch up to the WR.

Position of control

Typically, the position of control is when the DBs shoulder is ahead of the receiver or when you can read his opposite number.  The DB can affect the receivers speed and route and therefore can control the receiver. From this position, a DB can "lean and locate".  By feeling the receiver with your off arm and body you are assured not to lose him.

 

If the DB is not in phase and in a position of control and he looks back, he slows down and the separation increases.  The DB should keep eyes on the receiver, track him down, and play the ball through the basket by raking or clubbing when the ball arrives.

Any questions, ask away.

Terrific explanation. To me it seems we need to work on reaction to the receiver when going for the catch. If there DB had lost position in the receiver and is paying the receiver not the ball... They have to watch receivers head, eyes, and body to know when to react...Iggy did a terrific job on the endzone fade break ups.... Looked like an all American... The I think it was j David but not sure on one of the deep balls we reacted and ripped way to soon causing a PI call. Overall I was fairly pleased with the dbs especially getting beat at the line and still being in a position to make a play...... Plus...JB was dropping teardrop dimes...... Perfect pass beats perfect coverage every time

 

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6 minutes ago, mustache eagle said:

Required reading for AUFamily membership? :)

Yes please. Should eliminate all the look back for the ball subjects that happen annually.

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Perfect John!  I set you up for the explanation yesterday.  You explained it perfectly.  Our DBs have the raking or clubbing down.  Now they need to work on reading the eyes and hands of the receiver to get the timing down to eliminate the PIs. 

Thanks for the professional explanation. 

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1 hour ago, bigbird said:

 In phase vs out of phase.

In phase means the DB is running hip to hip with the receiver. Out of phase means the DB is trailing and trying to catch up to the WR.

Without using the term, Steele made a good comment about this in his presser. When asked about turning on the ball, he said the mistake wasn't made at the point of reception. The mistake was made within the first 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. I'm quite sure they'll be working on their 3 yard reaction time this week. He went on to add they were able to stop the back shoulder throws which was something they had worked hard on all week.

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3 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

Steele made a good comment about this in his presser. When asked about turning on the ball, he said the mistake wasn't made at the point of reception. The mistake was made within the first 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. 

Obviously he is right.  When running man, particularly press or catch, the initial mirror step and punch/jam/redirect is essential and by missing or misplaying it you put yourself in a hole to try and recover.

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1 minute ago, CodeRocket said:

Thanks, this explanation will prevent a lot of future frustration.

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3 hours ago, bigbird said:

Alright so here it goes. There is always confusion and complaining about DBs and why they are not looking back for the ball. Hopefully this will help clear some of it up.

The answer is different for each player, but concept remains the same. Basically, the rule is, when a DB is in phase, and in a position of control they can turn and find the ball.

Well, what does that mean?

In phase vs out of phase.

In phase means the DB is running hip to hip with the receiver. Out of phase means the DB is trailing and trying to catch up to the WR.

Position of control

Typically, the position of control is when the DBs shoulder is ahead of the receiver or when you can read his opposite number.  The DB can affect the receivers speed and route and therefore can control the receiver. From this position, a DB can "lean and locate".  By feeling the receiver with your off arm and body you are assured not to lose him.

 

If the DB is not in phase and in a position of control and he looks back, he slows down and the separation increases.  The DB should keep eyes on the receiver, track him down, and play the ball through the basket by raking or clubbing when the ball arrives.

Any questions, ask away.

Amen Amen Amen!  

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This is one of the issues a lot of fans have when watching a game on TV. Usually, the only attention is paid to the end result: when the ball arrives at the WR. But, so much happens in those first few yards, or even in those initial steps of the route and the response of the CB.

Edited by wareagleguy
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3 hours ago, bigbird said:

Alright so here it goes. There is always confusion and complaining about DBs and why they are not looking back for the ball. Hopefully this will help clear some of it up.

The answer is different for each player, but concept remains the same. Basically, the rule is, when a DB is in phase, and in a position of control they can turn and find the ball.

Well, what does that mean?

In phase vs out of phase.

In phase means the DB is running hip to hip with the receiver. Out of phase means the DB is trailing and trying to catch up to the WR.

Position of control

Typically, the position of control is when the DBs shoulder is ahead of the receiver or when you can read his opposite number.  The DB can affect the receivers speed and route and therefore can control the receiver. From this position, a DB can "lean and locate".  By feeling the receiver with your off arm and body you are assured not to lose him.

 

If the DB is not in phase and in a position of control and he looks back, he slows down and the separation increases.  The DB should keep eyes on the receiver, track him down, and play the ball through the basket by raking or clubbing when the ball arrives.

Any questions, ask away.

They're gonna think I'm so smart tomorrow morning. Nicely done Bigbird.

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Hopefully it will be a while before we face another QB that good. When the rush wasn’t getting to Browning he made some terrific throws.  

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I will add that it’s seems like to the average viewer that we don’t look for the ball.  @bigbird explained it perfectly.  But also why it seems “we never look for the ball” is because the QB doesn’t throw the ball when the DB is in tight coverage  “in Phase” with the receiver.

The 49ers won multiple Super Bowls just reading if a defender was in or out of phase.  When in phase they would throw the back shoulder stop route and when out of phase they would throw over the top.  Defenses got better and know how to play the call better and we play the “current” best way to play the ball when in or out of phase

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@bigbird, I have a question that I hope you can help clarify for me:

 

How many damn times are you or (somebody) going to have to answer/rehash this topic this year? Just your best guess. I’ll hang up and listen....

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27 minutes ago, corchjay said:

I will add that it’s seems like to the average viewer that we don’t look for the ball.  @bigbird explained it perfectly.  But also why it seems “we never look for the ball” is because the QB doesn’t throw the ball when the DB is in tight coverage  “in Phase” with the receiver.

The 49ers won multiple Super Bowls just reading if a defender was in or out of phase.  When in phase they would throw the back shoulder stop route and when out of phase they would throw over the top.  Defenses got better and know how to play the call better and we play the “current” best way to play the ball when in or out of phase

Yeap. Throwing to the out of phase db, camera man never shows the other corners who've shut down their play. 

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ive seen Alabama employ a bump and run coverage on our WR's successfully at specific times (usually around red zone)  i cant say ive seen that happen for our DB's    Do the DB's have to be superior to run that type of coverage? 

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43 minutes ago, auskip07 said:

ive seen Alabama employ a bump and run coverage on our WR's successfully at specific times (usually around red zone)  i cant say ive seen that happen for our DB's    Do the DB's have to be superior to run that type of coverage? 

That’s what we run almost exclusively 

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2 minutes ago, corchjay said:

That’s what we run almost exclusively 

just doesnt seem like we disrupt the routes  as well as some others ive seen.  maybe im not looking hard enough

 

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Just now, auskip07 said:

just doesnt seem like we disrupt the routes  as well as some others ive seen.  maybe im not looking hard enough

 

We are starting to get away with more and more in the defensive backfield with the exception of yesterday’s game.  

Bama gets away with robbery in the defensive backfield and on the OL.  

J. Davis PI was clearly a foul but in SEC play probably none of the others are called except the pick play ran by Udub

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49 minutes ago, auskip07 said:

ive seen Alabama employ a bump and run coverage on our WR's successfully at specific times (usually around red zone)  i cant say ive seen that happen for our DB's    Do the DB's have to be superior to run that type of coverage? 

Bama runs a complex match zone cv3 scheme. I'm not going to explain it, but if you'd like to read about it.

This is a good article

 

To me, I love the pattern matching aspect and always have taught my guys to understand and use it.

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