homersapien 11,357 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Normally, I would have called this simply unbelievable. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/13/trump-inflated-hurricane-maria-death-toll-822236 Trump pushes conspiracy theory about Puerto Rico death toll Without providing evidence, the president claims Democrats are trying to make him look 'bad' by inflating the numbers. Donald Trump on Thursday peddled a conspiracy theory about the official death toll from Hurricane Maria, falsely accusing unnamed Democrats of inflating the number to almost 3,000 in order to smear his image. The tweet comes after Trump praised his administration this week for its response to the devastating 2017 storm, calling it an "incredible, unsung success" — comments that garnered fierce backlash from Puerto Rican officials and mainland Democrats as insensitive. Though initial estimates for the death toll from the storm and its aftermath hovered at 64, a comprehensive study released this summer raised the number to nearly 3,000. "3000 people did not die in the two hurricanes that hit Puerto Rico. When I left the Island, AFTER the storm had hit, they had anywhere from 6 to 18 deaths. As time went by it did not go up by much. Then, a long time later, they started to report really large numbers, like 3000..." Trump tweeted Thursday morning. ".....This was done by the Democrats in order to make me look as bad as possible when I was successfully raising Billions of Dollars to help rebuild Puerto Rico. If a person died for any reason, like old age, just add them onto the list. Bad politics. I love Puerto Rico!" The study was conducted by researchers at George Washington University and was requested by the Puerto Rican government. The study found nearly 1,300 people died in September and October — the months of the storm — alone, and put the total figure toll at 2,975 excess deaths. Even for a president who has made a career off politically incorrect pronouncements, Thursday’s tweets were eye-popping — and they rattled even the president’s most ardent defenders. Asked about the president’s comments, one former administration official said simply, “Surreal.” Trump has a long history of pushing conspiracy theories, from linking vaccines to autism to asserting that former President Barack Obama wasn’t born in the United States. And perhaps more than any president in modern history, Trump has consistently and publicly questioned the government that he now oversees. He has falsely insisted that “millions” of people voted illegally in the 2016 election. During the presidential campaign, he called the Labor Department’s employment numbers “one of the biggest hoaxes in American modern politics.” And he has repeatedly questioned federal intelligence agencies’ assessment that Russia meddled in the 2016 election to boost his candidacy. It was unclear which Democrats the president was referring to, though he has openly feuded with San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz, a member of Puerto Rico's Popular Democratic Party, over the federal government’s hurricane response. People close to the president said Trump remains furious at Cruz, who he blames for magnifying the narrative that the federal government failed to adequately respond to the disaster. For Trump, who sees everything through the lens of politics, Cruz’s criticism is emblematic of what he sees as a broader campaign by Democrats to undermine his presidency. Trump is also fixated on what he was told when he visited Puerto Rico in October 2017, after the hurricane hit. “What is your death count as of this moment, 17?” he asked Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rosselló, who responded that there were 16 certified deaths at the time. Trump was pleased with the number. “You can be very proud of all of your people, all of our people working together. Sixteen versus literally thousands of people,” he said comparing the response to Hurricane Katrina. Trump, in his Thursday tweet, seemed unable to understand how the figure increased so dramatically from last October, which appeared to spark his conspiracy theory. But Puerto Ricans and others who experienced the fallout from the hurricane firsthand say they’ve seen the deadly consequences of a lack of electricity, clean water and infrastructure, which lingered in many parts of the country for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,357 Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,472 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Maybe Twitter will ban him next. They’d be doing him a favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,773 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, homersapien said: Normally, I would have called this simply unbelievable. Brother Homer you leftist, progressives or whatever you are have done one good job. That is politicizing natural events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,136 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 When 3000 people die because of inadequate response from the most prosperous country in the world, it is political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,773 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 55 minutes ago, AUDub said: When 3000 people die because of inadequate response from the most prosperous country in the world, it is political. Did 3000 people die due to an "inadequate response" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,472 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 36 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said: Did 3000 people die due to an "inadequate response" ? You’re moving the goalposts. That wasn’t what Trump said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,357 Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said: Brother Homer you leftist, progressives or whatever you are have done one good job. That is politicizing natural events. Are you kidding me? Trump denies the death toll, blames Democrats for the "lie" and you claim it's "leftists" who are politicizing natural events?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,773 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 11 hours ago, homersapien said: and you claim it's "leftists" yes, and you have the full support of push AGW weather channel. appreciate the weather channel but much of their stuff is side show and circus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,357 Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 13 hours ago, SaltyTiger said: yes, and you have the full support of push AGW weather channel. appreciate the weather channel but much of their stuff is side show and circus WTH does that have to do with what Trump just did? He denied the facts, then attributes them to a Democratic hoax. He made the death of 3,000 Americans ALL ABOUT HIMSELF!!!! This is the most shameful proof that he is a narcissistic psychopath as anyone could even image. If you don't recognize this, you have a serious denial problem. I don't care how many diversionary cracks you conjure up. Have you, at long last, no shame, "brother"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,472 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Anytime Trump says his latest idiotic, demonstrably false thing on Twitter, all the Trump backers around here get ADD and flit from one subject to the next so long as they can avoid what he actually said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 There is not even any proof that 3000 people died.....looked foe verification and no list of victims anywhere I could find. Then looked at the explanation from the college assessment and note that it was estimates, projections and possible indirect causes. All ginned up in hope that PR could get more Federal aid. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/us/puerto-rico-hurricane-maria-deaths.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,357 Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, AU64 said: There is not even any proof that 3000 people died.....looked foe verification and no list of victims anywhere I could find. Then looked at the explanation from the college assessment and note that it was estimates, projections and possible indirect causes. All ginned up in hope that PR could get more Federal aid. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/us/puerto-rico-hurricane-maria-deaths.html There is no list. There never is after one of these sort of mass tragedies. There was no list after Katrina. Such denial is shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 57 minutes ago, homersapien said: There is no list. There never is after one of these sort of mass tragedies. There was no list after Katrina. Such denial is shameful. DT should not have responded or reacted...I give you that........and he is overly sensitive to criticism which does him ho good. But what is shameful is for those who despise DT to make political hay out of something that is specious and without basis in fact. As for Katrina...you could find good records of death count all along the gulf coast and granted they might have missed a few and a few people who were declared dead were suspected of just hitting the road and leaving their debts and problems behind...but the numbers were pretty well established.. But in PR when they were keeping up with things, the number was fairly well established and below 100. And then a year later it went from fewer than a hundred to 2975 (a nice whole number) with no specifics to support the added deaths......more of a statistical study as the authors even mention. That's fine to try and assess the possible impact of the storm, but to represent what appeared to be mostly a statistical study as equivalent to "facts"...….that's shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, AU64 said: DT should not have responded or reacted...I give you that........and he is overly sensitive to criticism which does him ho good. But what is shameful is for those who despise DT to make political hay out of something that is specious and without basis in fact. As for Katrina...you could find good records of death count all along the gulf coast and granted they might have missed a few and a few people who were declared dead were suspected of just hitting the road and leaving their debts and problems behind...but the numbers were pretty well established.. But in PR when they were keeping up with things, the number was fairly well established and below 100. And then a year later it went from fewer than a hundred to 2975 (a nice whole number) with no specifics to support the added deaths......more of a statistical study as the authors even mention. That's fine to try and assess the possible impact of the storm, but to represent what appeared to be mostly a statistical study as equivalent to "facts"...….that's shameful. Tell home his BS is shameful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,357 Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 22 hours ago, AU64 said: DT should not have responded or reacted...I give you that........and he is overly sensitive to criticism which does him ho good. But what is shameful is for those who despise DT to make political hay out of something that is specious and without basis in fact. As for Katrina...you could find good records of death count all along the gulf coast and granted they might have missed a few and a few people who were declared dead were suspected of just hitting the road and leaving their debts and problems behind...but the numbers were pretty well established.. But in PR when they were keeping up with things, the number was fairly well established and below 100. And then a year later it went from fewer than a hundred to 2975 (a nice whole number) with no specifics to support the added deaths......more of a statistical study as the authors even mention. That's fine to try and assess the possible impact of the storm, but to represent what appeared to be mostly a statistical study as equivalent to "facts"...….that's shameful. Not to change the subject, but that is the same sort of argument from ignorance typical of AGW deniers. "Deniers" being the key word. Science is based on statistics. The "absolute facts" are known only to God. No reasonable person accepted the early estimates as factual. They were clearly a politically-motivated estimate that had no basis in objective methodology. What do you think the death toll was? 60? Something like 1,500 died in Katrina. Surely the number of deaths caused by a category 4 storm rolling over a place like Puerto Rico could easily equal or exceed that. Common sense dictates the deaths were in the thousands. Regardless, does the exact number really matter? All Trump had to do was acknowledge that a lot of people died but we did the best we could do under the circumstances and learned a lot. The American people will accept a POTUS who admits his mistakes. Kennedy's rating went up after he admitted mistakes in the Bay of Pigs. But no, Trump instinctively sees the revised estimates as a personal attack. He could care less about the people who died. All he cares about is himself. You should be ashamed for being so willing to overlook the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,357 Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/us/puerto-rico-death-toll-maria.html August 9, 2018: Puerto Rican Government Acknowledges Hurricane Death Toll of 1,427 https://www.wsj.com/articles/puerto-ricos-hurricane-maria-death-toll-now-estimated-at-nearly-3-000-1535475600 September 15, 2018 Puerto Rico Governor Raises Hurricane Maria Death Toll to Nearly 3,000 Study commissioned by government puts tally much higher than official count of 64 from last year’s storm https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/13/hurricane-maria-death-toll-study-george-washington-university-death-toll-donald-trump/1288908002/ September 13, 2018 How Puerto Rico's Hurricane Maria death toll of 3,000 was calculated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,773 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 22 hours ago, homersapien said: Regardless, does the exact number really matter? All Trump had to do was acknowledge that a lot of people died but we did the best we could do under the circumstances and learned a lot. The American people will accept a POTUS who admits his mistakes. Kennedy's rating went up after he admitted mistakes in the Bay of Pigs. Earlier point made. I have no shame. Sure President Trump is a dirt bag in many ways, but he has exposed the leftest idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,357 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said: Earlier point made. I have no shame. Sure President Trump is a dirt bag in many ways, but he has exposed the leftest idiocy. So you actually believe this latest estimate of PR deaths is "idiocy"? Or a politically motivated hoax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HVAU 673 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 21 hours ago, SaltyTiger said: Earlier point made. I have no shame. Sure President Trump is a dirt bag in many ways, but he has exposed the leftest idiocy. I haven't joined this particular conversation yet, but I guess with the gem I feel a special invitation... Yes, the fringe of the left can be particularly idiotic, but your comment is so devoid of awareness and perspective. Trump's behaviour and words have exposed the hypocrisy of the consevative movement as steered by the GOP. They aren't the party of fiscal responsibility, moral accountability. They aren't anti-corruption, and their pretense to patriotism is empty lip-service to generate interest among their constituency. The GOP is being shown to lack the principles they so prominently parade around pretending to have. The left needed no exposure. Their worst elements have been running through the streets naked and screaming for decades. One good thing Trump has done, inadvertently, is to show that those that prop him yo are lacking in qualities that represent American idealism and exceptionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,773 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 10 hours ago, homersapien said: So you actually believe this latest estimate of PR deaths is "idiocy"? Or a politically motivated hoax? I do not know if the death tolls are accurate or not. Neither do you. My only point is that you guys cherish the opportunity to blame any and everything on President Trump Brother Homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,773 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 hours ago, HVAU said: The GOP is being shown to lack the principles they so prominently parade around pretending to have. I am not a Republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HVAU 673 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said: I am not a Republican. That's like the old fake TV doctor disclaimer. "I'm not a Republican, but I do vote that way on election day." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,357 Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said: I do not know if the death tolls are accurate or not. Neither do you. My only point is that you guys cherish the opportunity to blame any and everything on President Trump Brother Homer. No one "knows" what the exact death toll is any more than they "know" exactly how many degrees - to the fractional level - the world's temperature increased this past year. You are making a rhetorical argument worthy or a polemicist, but it has no basis in reality or the science thereof. But - speaking as someone who has an appreciation of science I am perfectly happy accepting the results of credible research in this question within the proscribed variances. Meanwhile, you evaded my questions: Do you actually believe this latest estimate of PR deaths is "idiocy"? Or a politically motivated hoax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,773 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 14 hours ago, homersapien said: No one "knows" what the exact death toll is any more than they "know" exactly how many degrees - to the fractional level - the world's temperature increased this past year. Did it increase? If it gets as cold here as last winter I am headed further south for a while. 14 hours ago, homersapien said: Do you actually believe this latest estimate of PR deaths is "idiocy"? No I do not Brother Homer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.