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Things I Think I Saw: Auburn vs LSU


JMR

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Thanks Coach.  Continually, you are a voice of reason in the storm ...

Curious on a few things:

  • What was your take on the coaching / game plan?  For the life of me, I can't figure out what we're doing on offense.  One minute, we're hurry up no huddle go go go, the next, we're walking around, substituting and frankly, looks like we're trying to figure out what play to call next.  Also, I think if we're truly going to play to our talent, we either need to make some big time shifts on the OL, as you've alluded, or just get in pass-pro and let Stidham pick 'em apart.  And to top it off, frustratingly, when we finally do start clicking, we do seem to go a bit conservative (lifelong Gus tendancy, I suppose).
     
  • Do you think we go with a first 10/15 scripted plays?  Doesn't seem like it ... 
     
  • I think we saw Eli Stove once, I'm sure the coaches think he's full speed otherwise wouldn't play him ... then again, why rush? It's not like we have a lack of speed options on the field.
     
  • Was interesting to get your "max protect" take on why our front-four couldn't get any pressure.  3, 5, 95 ... were all pretty silent most of the night.
     
  • Guess Asa is out of the doghouse ... any chance we see him at RB?  Hmmm ....
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9 hours ago, Jones Field said:

Interesting topic on the D front.

So how do you counter it?  

I'd try Pin and Pull, and outside zone....But we won't freaking run Oz except for a few random stretch plays. The First thing I'd try would be G-Lead because your tackle could try to down block that 4i and the Guard pulls outside to destroy the backer hopefully, or the safety, whichever threat comes first. 

I love Dart or Tackle Wrap but the angles may not allow for pulling the backside Tackle depending on where the NT is slanted to. 

I'm also assuming you could read the Nose on a midline read and let your Center get right on the backer... As long as it's not Kim, he has the worst footwork. 

 

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Good stuff. I just played high school ball and have only coached youth football. We taught basic zone blocking skills. When I saw that front the first thing I thought was down block and pull....and I ain’t that smart! You would think highly paid coaches would try something different up front.

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35 minutes ago, Jones Field said:

Good stuff. I just played high school ball and have only coached youth football. We taught basic zone blocking skills. When I saw that front the first thing I thought was down block and pull....and I ain’t that smart! You would think highly paid coaches would try something different up front.

Most of the time, if your guard is covered and you try and pull him, the DT will get on his hip and follow him to the play and make the stop in the backfield. Asking an OT to reach a 2 while the guard has pulled is ridiculous. It's not going to happen. The DTs are to quick and we'll coached.

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15 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Most of the time, if your guard is covered and you try and pull him, the DT will get on his hip and follow him to the play and make the stop in the backfield. Asking an OT to reach a 2 while the guard has pulled is ridiculous. It's not going to happen. The DTs are to quick and we'll coached.

Mr. bigbird is correct. You're better off trying to have your guard get across his face and run outside zone or read him, in my opinion anyway.

Also ridiculous, and this is burned into my memory, is to ask your backside guard try to come all the way across the formation and block Myles friggin Garrett... which Herb Hand asked Braden to do like three times vs TAMU that year.

Edited by Man on Fire
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concerning the db's...........is there any chance adding the second secondary coach maybe has caused some confusion? not bashing but curious. i know we are playing some youth but i think we have done this before with better results? thanx

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I dont think the dbs have misplayed very many passes. Go listen to Steele’s comments. They played most of those very well (imo). In fact on one where PI was called our db was tring to catch the ball. Idk maybe @bigbird has a different more professional opinion

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42 minutes ago, Man on Fire said:

Also ridiculous, and this is burned into my memory, is to ask your backside guard try to come all the way across the formation and block Myles friggin Garrett... which Herb Hand asked Braden to do like three times vs TAMU that year.

The media made him look like an all star when we GAVE him those sacks. Still ticks me off!

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@JMR you've done it again, and because of the likes of you, this is the best board in all of sports. @Man on Fire and @bigbird are not speaking in abstract: we're being shown why we're getting stalled, and it seems (again) like a coaching/scheming malfunction. The better team once again, a dollar short in a shoulda-won. Go figure. WDE.

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16 hours ago, weagl1 said:

That long touchdown was an awful bust.  We had guys back there but nobody covered him.

Believe that was Thomas that got torched there by taking a terrible angle inside...could be wrong

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11 minutes ago, fredst said:

Believe that was Thomas that got torched there by taking a terrible angle inside...could be wrong

You are not wrong. 

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I still feel sick to my stomach thinking about this game. There were so many opportunities to put them away or win in the end and just like last year, everything went their way in the 4th quarter. We really should have stopped them on 4th and 7

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If LSU's defense continues to dominate, look for Aranda to get a HC job for 2019.  That would be great for other SEC teams. I agree that he is an excellent DC and having him out of the SEC would be good no doubt!  I know he is making 2.5 million, but if a team comes along needing a young innovating coach to the tune of $4 million, he goes.

I think if Boobie can stay healthy, we have our 1000 yard RB. It will take more time to get past this game and we still have a lot of FB to go. We will be tested stoutly from bammer, UGA, MSU and possibly TAMU.  If things go south for us and we wind up 4-4 in the SEC and get spanked some, do we bite the bullet $$$$$$$$$$$ and bring in a new innovative coach?  Not bailing out on Gus yet and want him to guide us to a 10-2 or 9-3 season that is possible, but will be hard to go beyond this. Who knows though. 

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22 hours ago, Man on Fire said:

Was most likey the TITE front. It's two 4i techs and typically the NT is slanted to one side or the other which determines the alignment of the Mike and Will. 

 

I mean I havent been able to go back and see whether it's Bear or Tite, but Tite front is the newest Chess move on the board and we've seen FOUR teams go to it to shut our ass down since the first GA game last year, those teams being GA in game 2, UCF, Washington, and now LSU.

LSU and Wash were already playing around with it last year and I'm assuming Kirby got tipped off by someone (lil Nicky and the giant turd related coaching tree including Belichik) because he immediately adjusted to it after getting the Dogg beat out of him. 

I first asked questions about the front during the OU vs GA semifinal because I noticed both teams using it. Apparently Chip Kelly was using it to hide.the fact he had excellent odd front Ends but not great DT depth. The big twelve spearheaded the current trend of using it vs spread teams and it's spreading like crazy. 

Aranda being very sharp and open minded was quick to adopt it. Fact, Kirby called Orlando, the Texas DC, and spent time this offseason gathering more pointers on the TITE. Orlando installed it last year at Texas and brought a garbage defense up into the top ten in several D categories. 

I've seen Zero attempt to Counterpunch by our geniuses. It's hard to watch anymore. 

I know you're super sharp Bird, so this is for anyone else who may wonder why it matters.

The 4i techs force both your Tackle and Guard to take them on for most of the typical spread inside runs. Both B gaps are toast. Most spread teams don't run into the A Gap, but if they do you have a nasty NT stoning your center, who you can't double now, and the Mike will help fill the other A even if the Nose doesn't blow it up. You can't pull Guards because the 4i can ride his butt to the ball so Power is gone...Buck Sweep is probably gone because the Geometry sucks. 

This is done to force everything wide right into the loving arms of monsters like Devin White or Roquan Smith. There are ways to Counter it, as there's always a counter move in football... But we won't/don't or can't run any of those blocking schemes apparently. 

https://matchquarters.com/2016/10/10/the-3-4-tite-front/

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2018/2/19/17021322/college-footballs-new-favorite-defense-4i-tech-4-0-4-georgia-texas

https://matchquarters.com/2018/07/20/mq-quick-hits-ep-10-the-tite-front/

Gus very seldom ever adjusts his system to take advantage of the defense.  He expects his geniusly designed offense can beat any defense.  He has not changed his run game in 8 years.  Everybody has seen it and have adjusted to defend it.

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8 hours ago, Auhud08 said:

I dont think the dbs have misplayed very many passes. Go listen to Steele’s comments. They played most of those very well (imo). In fact on one where PI was called our db was tring to catch the ball. Idk maybe @bigbird has a different more professional opinion

Nope, they played great.  Every DB and WR hand fight. There was little to no impeading of the WR...except by Greedy

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1 hour ago, around4ever said:

Coach, as always, you nailed it with every point.  Thank you for verifying what I thought I saw as well.  Great stuff!!

Yes sir.  Thanks coach! 

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On 9/16/2018 at 3:57 PM, JMR said:
Things I Think I Saw: Auburn vs LSU….

I call this “Things I Think I Saw” for the simple reason that no matter how many times you watch a game, or even a single play, it’s virtually impossible not to see something a little differently each time. So, I may not have seen something correctly, or the same way you saw it. These are just some impressions I got from watching this game once…..
 
  • Auburn got off to a terrible start in the game, with Jarrett Stidham throwing a pick on his first attempt, then going O-fer on his first four passes. Not all those were Stidham’s fault, of course, as AU early in the game dropped at least three balls that should have been caught. LSU on the other hand started the game the way a visiting team needs to, and Joe Burrow was 4-of-5 out of the gate. To underline the awful AU start to the game, our first four offensive possessions accounted for a total of 17 yards.
     
  • For most of the game, the LSU secondary was anticipating and jumping Auburn’s routes. I attribute that to the fact that 1. they play very aggressively in the back end, and 2. Auburn is still running many of the same routes we’ve run for a few years now. LSU was well-schooled on those routes, and managed two interceptions, in part because they were willing to jump the route.
     
  • The interior of Auburn’s offensive line did not appear to have improved much since the Washington game. Marquell Harrell had some good plays and some very mediocre ones, while Kaleb Kim and Mike Horton continued to under-perform relative to each’s ability. Kim incurred two critical holding penalties, both of which could have been easily averted had he just centered up on a blitzing Devin White, instead of trying to take an angle on him, failing to do so, and grabbing onto the guy. I have no idea what has happened to the Mike Horton we saw prior to his injury last season, but that Horton has been conspicuously absent so far this year. I would not be shocked to see changes at center and right guard in the next game or two.
     
  • At the offensive tackle spots, which was a worry heading into the season, run blocking has been fairly good. Both Tega and Driscoll are steadily improving, although Tega still struggles with his footwork against a speed rush. It’s past time for that problem to be corrected.
     
  • The inexperience of our defensive secondary continues to be a major problem. I love Igbinoghene, and he is able to run with most wide receivers. But he is a little undersized, and being in his first year as a corner, he’s not yet mastered the fine points of the position. Because it’s his first season back there, he is being picked on to a degree by opposing offenses. Time will fix that situation, but each game involves painful lessons in the meantime. Iggy is hardly the only one having problems in the back end. Virtually all of our corners have similar problems, and all are struggling as the receiver comes out of his first break.
     
  • Although he dropped a catchable ball early in the game, freshman wide receiver Seth Williams had a good game, and his talent will make him a key player for us as time goes by.
     
  • I felt like Ja’Tarvious Whitlow continued to show improvement this week. Having played at a small school level in high school, he has much to learn, but barring injury, he will be an excellent back. He does tend to carry the ball with one hand when in traffic, and if that continues, some of what he will learn will be costly and painful.
     
  • A couple of the things we are asking Kaleb Kim to do are beyond the capability of most college centers. Pulling the backside guard and expecting Kim to pick up that guard’s unblocked 2 or 3 technique is more than he is capable of doing. It may look good on the white board, but in real life, it isn’t happening.
     
  • I am not one to believe “the officials are out to get us.” But LSU, which has had problems with their offensive line this season, obviously made a conscious decision to hold until the officials called it. They never did call it, and the holding was rampant on both pass and run plays from beginning to end. I’ll admit, the no-call on Greedy Williams holding Darius Slayton with both hands in clear view of a huge play, followed by the tacky PI call on Jamel Dean, did make me consider jumping over to the conspiracy side of things.
     
  • I couldn’t help but question my eyesight when Auburn threw a little bootleg pass to tight end Jalen Harris. Sure enough, it did actually happen, and thus Harris now has 4 receptions in his career at AU.
     
  • Jarrett Stidham seems to have regressed a bit since last season. I noticed in the Washington game he was not quite as accurate with his throws, and whereas Ryan Davis could catch the ball without breaking stride or moving to his left or right on the little screens, this season Davis has had to adjust to the ball, thus limiting his ability to run after the catch. Might be wishful thinking on my part, but Stidham seems to be overthrowing more deep balls this season as well. Stidham is also not calmly going through his progressions, and failed to see at least two wide open receivers on critical plays in this one. One was a backside post to Anthony Schwartz which would have likely been a TD, and one was a critical third down conversion attempt. I’m certainly aware that Stidham has been under duress at times, but he is a veteran QB and, I believe, capable of playing better than he has so far.
     
  • Had Auburn been able to hang on and win the game, we might have named this one “The True Freshmen Game.”  Shaun Shivers and Anthony Schwartz looked very good for the second consecutive week, and Asa Martin executed that wheel route like he’d been doing it for a while.
     
  • DeShaun Davis played an outstanding game. He was everywhere, with intensity, and I believe he had somewhere around 19 total tackles.
     
  • Auburn was unable to get much of a pass rush out of the front four. IMO, there were a couple of reasons for that. One, LSU usually kept seven blockers in, and at least once, they actually kept 9, sending out only a single receiver. If the defense is rushing four, and the offense keeps 7 or more in to block, it’s tough to get much pressure. But at the same time, if the offense is sending out three or less receivers, the expectation is that the seven defenders in coverage should be able to cover pretty well. As I mentioned earlier, that goes back to the lack of experience, with three new starters in the secondary. LSU always seemed to have one receiver open “just enough” to convert a key third down.

This was a tough one to stomach. Again. Losing to Ed Orgeron, not once, but twice, is hard to accept, regardless of how it happened. But this one is over, and there’s nothing to be done now but go back to work and get better.  Sorry I’m late getting this out, but it was honestly tough to get myself to sit down and watch the recording. I’m pretty sure next week will be better, but as a longtime AU fan, you never take anything for granted..… WAR EAGLE!!
 

Very good recap, as painful as it is.

 

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This is JMO but I truly believe the players believed everything written about them leading up to the LSU game and felt all they had to do was just show up. 

On a more positive note my brother was a volunteer coach at Pinson Valley and he told me today Nix is the real deal. He said he went to PV's game Friday night and said Bo had one heck of a great game. Hopefully, dear, old dad can have him ready by the time he steps on campus.

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14 hours ago, around4ever said:

Gus very seldom ever adjusts his system to take advantage of the defense.  He expects his geniusly designed offense can beat any defense.  He has not changed his run game in 8 years.  Everybody has seen it and have adjusted to defend it.

This is a sad fact and everyone has seen our WR routes a thousand times, to the point where LSU's D was jumping those routes like a damn jack rabbit.?

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