Question about Gus and play design

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, Gowebb11 said:

Thanks for a great post, @NorthGATiger I do not possess the technical knowledge of someone like @corchjay so I cannot answer to all of your questions. But I think an overlooked part of this discussion, is how much parity there is in the second tier of college football. AU, TAMU, LSU, and MSU are all really good football teams with good and smart defenses. We all have the same amount of Grad Assts and “consultants” to study game film 24/7 all year round. We all know each others tendencies, and increasingly I’m seeing games come down to execution on 2-3 plays. What if we pick up the LBer on our 4th and 1 play and go on to score? What if the snap is good on Carlsons 53 yard FG attempt? I would argue that all 4 of the teams above would easily be the second best team in the SEC East, hands down. But the margin for error is slim. One of those 4 teams will likely finish 10-2 and second in the SEC West, and one will finish 8-4 and 5th in the West. Gus is basically running the same offense that has been throttled by teams, and the same offense that was good enough to beat Bama and UGA last year. We cannot control Gus’s offensive philosophy, or the refs. The one thing we can control is executing better. In our big games, we have to get it right, not just almost right. All my humble opinion. WDE!!!

Spot on.  Execution is the key.  Plus your playmakers have to make plays at key points in the games.  We didn't do that at all Saturday.  

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

1 minute ago, corchjay said:

Another thing coaching wise that I would do differently is when we scrimmage in the fall I would go QB live the second scrimmage especially if it's 1s vs 2s.   And I would go live in every Spring scrimmage if it's 1s vs 2s.  

Please let the backups run the entire offense when they get in the game.  I understand keeping it basic but still run your basic plays to find out what the backups can really do.  

I can't agree more.  It does the players an injustice to spend 2 years handing the ball off and then being asked to be the man and run the show when it is their turn.  You wouldn't ask your son to pitch in the championship game if all he had every played was 1st base.  It's not like we let them play when the game is close anyway.  Is it a crime to let the kids make coach-able mistakes that they can learn from in blow out games instead of making them in games that matter for the 1st time.

[Auhud08 596]

11 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

I know for the past couple years most people have wanted Gus to turn the play calling over to Chip and from what I can tell Gus hasn’t been involved too much.  One complaint I would have with Chips play calling is almost too much passing.  Traditionaly under Gus and in the SEC in generally a strong running game leads teams to championships. I have not gone back and watched the game but the offensive surge we saw after the slow start seemed more like a Gus offense instead of a Chip offense.  We ran with success which had the LSU defense off balance.  After Boobie came out for a couple plays and Shivers got stuffed a couple times I feel like Auburn reverted back to a pass heavy offense which has not been successful under Gus and Stidham.  Maybe someone with a higher football IQ can speak on this.

Our oline is not good enough (executing well enough) for us to run at will. If we could, we would. We started dominating on O because we passed. Then we ran a little then we did play action pass. We have to keep passing to keep dbs, safeties and lbs out of the box. If anything we didnt pass enough saturday

[DAG 33,977]

1 minute ago, Auhud08 said:

Our oline is not good enough (executing well enough) for us to run at will. If we could, we would. We started dominating on O because we passed. Then we ran a little then we did play action pass. We have to keep passing to keep dbs, safeties and lbs out of the box. If anything we didnt pass enough saturday

This! This year strength is the pass. Also, I am sick of hearing about our recruiting. UGA and Alabama are the cream of the crop. You can’t do anything about that. But my goodness we got 4 and 5 star lineman available at our disposal. Dang it sometimes you need to just sack up, get mean and blow someone off the ball. If this isn’t occurring then our coaches need to go Gary Patterson , Nick Saban and start giving these guys an earful. Same thing with QB play. Same thing with DB play. 

[corchjay 5,311]

4 minutes ago, DAG said:

This! This year strength is the pass. Also, I am sick of hearing about our recruiting. UGA and Alabama are the cream of the crop. You can’t do anything about that. But my goodness we got 4 and 5 star lineman available at our disposal. Dang it sometimes you need to just sack up, get mean and blow someone off the ball. If this isn’t occurring then our coaches need to go Gary Patterson , Nick Saban and start giving these guys an earful. Same thing with QB play. Same thing with DB play. 

Totally agree.  Got to get better at those 3 spots.  

[BigWhiskey91 632]

2 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Totally agree.  Got to get better at those 3 spots.  

Hoping some changes at Center will help. Other then that, it’s gonna be a combo of reps to build chemistry and individual improvements.

[Hooverwareagle 24]

I think you have to be able to run the ball to win championships.  That said, we are not going to line up and run the ball effectively against LSU, UGA or bammer.  Maybe not against MSU.  We don't have the talent at OL and RB.  We have let that go for a few years and it has caught up to us.  To score we are going to have to throw the ball.  Might as well line Stidham up in the gun and start slinging the ball.  I don't like our chances against the big dogs without a strong running game, but for now our best option is to throw the ball. Our talent and playmakers are at WR so we have to get the ball in their hands early and often.

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

Even "riverboat gambler" coaches like tubberville, B. Bowden and beimer historically became more conservative and for many reasons. Zaney plays are high payoff/high risk and, once you've recruited enough of your own blue chippers, not necessary. On offense there have been wild plays all the way back to rockne's days but in football, there's just not much new under the sun. Defense & "up the middle for 3 yds" wont sell as many tix but these coaches learn it still wins more often than not..IF you control the trenches. Right now we dont (bingo!)

[Hooverwareagle 24]

1 minute ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

Hoping some changes at Center will help. Other then that, it’s gonna be a combo of reps to build chemistry and individual improvements.

All which should have been realized and done during spring and fall camp!  Beating a dead horse to death, why does it take us 3-4 games to find our best OL???????

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, Hooverwareagle said:

I think you have to be able to run the ball to win championships.  That said, we are not going to line up and run the ball effectively against LSU, UGA or bammer.  Maybe not against MSU.  We don't have the talent at OL and RB.  We have let that go for a few years and it has caught up to us.  To score we are going to have to throw the ball.  Might as well line Stidham up in the gun and start slinging the ball.  I don't like our chances against the big dogs without a strong running game, but for now our best option is to throw the ball. Our talent and playmakers are at WR so we have to get the ball in their hands early and often.

I don't want to throw the ball 45-50 times a game.  A good balance.  As bad a QB play was saturday for us I'm surprised to see so many people say we should just start throwing it all over the place.  

[BigWhiskey91 632]

Just now, Hooverwareagle said:

All which should have been realized and done during spring and fall camp!  Beating a dead horse to death, why does it take us 3-4 games to find our best OL???????

Injuries. We were already thin coming into fall camp. The unit has worked well in pass protection but still trying to find consistency run blocking. Too many missed assignments. Hard to find that out until you see it on Saturdays. 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

1 minute ago, corchjay said:

I don't want to throw the ball 45-50 times a game.  A good balance.  As bad a QB play was saturday for us I'm surprised to see so many people say we should just start throwing it all over the place.  

My thought for increased throwing would be more quick throws. Screens, swing passes and checkdowns. 

But as effective as it can be, I don’t think this fan base would be prepared for the struggles throwing 40-50 times a game can cause if you aren’t executing. Haha

[Hooverwareagle 24]

I think Stidham can be good when he can get into a rhythm.  He is struggling dropping back and trying to find the open receiver.  I'm not a coach for sure.  But I see an OL and RBs that are not going to be able to consistently move the chains. 

[corchjay 5,311]

3 minutes ago, Hooverwareagle said:

All which should have been realized and done during spring and fall camp!  Beating a dead horse to death, why does it take us 3-4 games to find our best OL???????

The 5 out there were probably the best 5 available... Brahms wasn't ready to go for Washington and Horton is just a mystery so far but might find himself on the pine in the coming weeks if we doesn't get it together.  Tega and Driscoll have been ok, neither good or bad.  Harrell has been better then average SEC starter.  Kim good snaps and identification but no movement at the point of attack.  And as I mentioned before Horton falling all over the place isn't helping Kim very much either.  

[Tiger Refuge 6,662]

It could also just be the fact that he is the head coach now and not a coordinator. He shouldn’t be able to devote the time and attention to the offense that he could when he was just an OC. Of course he can set up the framework or boundaries for what he would like to see in the offense, but overall he has (should) bigger fish to fry. 

 

Great discussion!

[gr82be 14,423]

2 hours ago, kevon67 said:

So much for not bashing........Try reading first sentence of original post with your eyes open this time.

.....and an open mind.

[corchjay 5,311]

2 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

My thought for increased throwing would be more quick throws. Screens, swing passes and checkdowns. 

But as effective as it can be, I don’t think this fan base would be prepared for the struggles throwing 40-50 times a game can cause if you aren’t executing. Haha

I'd be ok with that.  Just throw it to the open person regardless if it's short, intermediate, or long.  Gotta get better reading defenses and anticipating where open areas of the field are gonna be and which WR will be entering that space.  

[kevon67 2,368]

2 minutes ago, gr82be said:

.....and an open mind.

True.

[DAG 33,977]

10 minutes ago, corchjay said:

I don't want to throw the ball 45-50 times a game.  A good balance.  As bad a QB play was saturday for us I'm surprised to see so many people say we should just start throwing it all over the place.  

Because the pass opens up the run. You are NOT going to just be able to impose your will with this team . The only time we have been able to get pace is when we completed some short yardage to intermediate passes, which allowed for the run game to get established .

I don’t know why people think we are going to all of a sudden be able to impose our will against QUALITY opponents when we couldn’t do it against UW and we couldn’t really do it against LSU. Oh BTW , we don’t have a KJ or a Tre Mason in the backfield who can make something out of nothing. Yes, JS had a bad game but I’ve seen him be excellent , unlike the others on the offensive side of the ball. He is our best asset right now.

So unless the offensive line suddenly become bezerkers, you have to go off the DNA of your team.

[McFU 205]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

At the personnel level I'd say we need make a switch with Kim and Brahms.   Mike Horton I have no idea what has happened to him and why but he seems to fall down pulling, falls down when drive blocking... I don't understand why this is happening

Because I picked him as my man crush...I knew I should have not tempted the Football Gods by choosing an O-Lineman 

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

Gus/Chip have still been adding, but I want to see what they will do to scheme open some explosive plays. Our offense thrives on it and so far it hasn’t been there. Need more double posts to pick on the single high safety we seem to see frequently.

JMO but mostly what turn out to be "explosive" plays are usually the result of good execution by the players involved.  Chip gives the offense plenty of opportunity to break out with long gains ….but some of the deficiencies noted above cause many of those coaching plans to become nothing more than 2nd and 10....or worse.  Dropped passes, missed blocks, failure of QB to spot an open receiver.....and on it goes.   

Coaches can develop the plan,  produce the plays and routes ….but the players have to do their jobs..  JMO but the issue is not that Gus or Chip have forgotten how to design an offense......and I don't need to call out names for anyone actually paying attention to the game, to know where the problems are. 

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, AU64 said:

JMO but mostly what turn out to be "explosive" plays are usually the result of good execution by the players involved.  Chip gives the offense plenty of opportunity to break out with long gains ….but some of the deficiencies noted above cause many of those coaching plans to become nothing more than 2nd and 10....or worse.  Dropped passes, missed blocks, failure of QB to spot an open receiver.....and on it goes.   

Coaches can develop the plan,  produce the plays and routes ….but the players have to do their jobs..  JMO but the issue is not that Gus or Chip have forgotten how to design an offense......and I don't need to call out names for anyone actually paying attention to the game, to know where the problems are. 

That's a good overview of the situation but I think people want to know what we can schematically do to improve our performance.  Like what the coaches can do to make the offense more potent with the same players.  

[corchjay 5,311]

9 minutes ago, DAG said:

Because the pass opens up the run. You are NOT going to just be able to impose your will with this team . The only time we have been able to get pace is when we completed some short yardage to intermediate passes, which allowed for the run game to get established .

I don’t know why people think we are going to all of a sudden be able to impose our will against QUALITY opponents when we couldn’t do it against UW and we couldn’t really do it against LSU. Oh BTW , we don’t have a KJ or a Tre Mason in the backfield who can make something out of nothing. Yes, JS had a bad game but I’ve seen him be excellent , unlike the others on the offensive side of the ball. He is our best asset right now.

So unless the offensive line suddenly become bezerkers, you have to go off the DNA of your team.

It may fall on stubborn Gus but I can almost assure you that won't happen.  They will keep teaching/correcting pushing the OL to get better at technique and being physical.  

I certainly don't want Willis or a true freshman Nix next year with an OL that is still soft and not able to generate a consistent run game.  

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, corchjay said:

That's a good overview of the situation but I think people want to know what we can schematically do to improve our performance.  Like what the coaches can do to make the offense more potent with the same players.  

Not quite like making lemonade out of lemons...…..still,  you mentioned the quality of defenses they face.....and I guess every coach would like (and tries) to find a way to get more milk from the cow. 

[DAG 33,977]

1 minute ago, corchjay said:

That's a good overview of the situation but I think people want to know what we can schematically do to improve our performance.  Like what the coaches can do to make the offense more potent with the same players.  

One thing I want more to occur is the motioning to a speed sweep guy. I wish they would actually implement that instead of motioning an extra blocker. In that way you can fake the speed sweep, give it or use them as a safety valve. That’s more of a Matt Canada approach but I think we need to keep teams front seven way off balance.