Rosenstein Now Implicated

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

IF what the NYT is reporting this is pretty bad. For sure a bad precedent for our country.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/21/rosenstein-reportedly-discussed-wearing-wire-invoking-25th-amendment-against-trump.html

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Taking Trump out of the equation for a second, if people in an administration did suspect that the POTUS was unfit (not morally, but mentally) to execute the responsibilities of his office.  And let's assume they had good reason to think this and that the president has managed thus far not to do anything in the public eye to show he's having problems, but behind the scenes it's very worrisome and apparent to his staff. 

What should they do?  Should they do things such as wear a wire, secretly video him, etc. to show proof as to his mental state and why the 25th amendment might be invoked?

Again, assume for a second it's not Trump.  Just speaking generally.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Taking Trump out of the equation for a second, if people in an administration did suspect that the POTUS was unfit (not morally, but mentally) to execute the responsibilities of his office.  And let's assume they had good reason to think this and that the president has managed thus far not to do anything in the public eye to show he's having problems, but behind the scenes it's very worrisome and apparent to his staff. 

What should they do?  Should they do things such as wear a wire, secretly video him, etc. to show proof as to his mental state and why the 25th amendment might be invoked?

Again, assume for a second it's not Trump.  Just speaking generally.

1. What do you think?

2. Who should make such a decision......one individual?

[AUDub 11,147]

There’s also the possibility it was meant in jest, given what WaPo is reporting. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

8 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

1. What do you think?

2. Who should make such a decision......one individual?

1.  I think if they really feel there's reason to suspect he might be mentally "not all there," they not only should but have an obligation to do so.

2. Like, all by themselves?  No.  But talking with other members of the President's staff/cabinet and if there's a consensus to do so, proceed?  Yeah, probably.

What about you?

[AU64 10,122]

8 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

1. What do you think?

2. Who should make such a decision......one individual?

I think that is what is usually called a coup …..no matter how sincere the person was about the need.   

[TitanTiger 20,472]

9 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I think that is what is usually called a coup …..no matter how sincere the person was about the need.   

I think that's a bit flippant and shows your biases.  You're not getting past it being about Trump.

Say it had been Bill Clinton, Hillary or Obama.  If they had staff (more than just one guy) who genuinely felt that one of them as President were suffering from mental issues that seriously clouded their judgment and ability to perform the functions of the office, should they not try to do something to demonstrate that?  If they go to Congress or the FBI or whoever, they're going to need to show some proof if the President is managing to hide it well in public.  You really see that as a coup?

[HVAU 673]

30 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

1.  I think if they really feel there's reason to suspect he might be mentally "not all there," they not only should but have an obligation to do so.

I agree in principle, but there are definitely some concerns about national security.

2. Like, all by themselves?  No.  But talking with other members of the President's staff/cabinet and if there's a consensus to do so, proceed?  Yeah, probably.

I've heard several former presidential administration members (not Trump admin) discuss the cutthroat nature of the job.  People are frequently looking for ways to advance their position and expand their influence, often taking opportunities to throw colleagues under the bus.  Given the circumstances I imagine organizing such a move, to record and undermine an administratiin, would be fraught with dangers.

What about you?

At the end of the day, if the president is mentally unfit, and I suspect Trump is, measures should be taken to relieve him of duty.

 

[homersapien 11,366]

3 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

1. What do you think?

2. Who should make such a decision......one individual?

You obviously have no understanding of how the 25th amendment works procedurally.

Rosenstein does. 

If he said something like this, he was joking. (Mark this post and we'll see if I am right.)

Having said that, it does tend to corroborate what is already has been revealed through many various sources - Trump is incompetent - if not a crazy mofo.  You know where I stand on that.

[homersapien 11,366]

So You Want to Use the 25th Amendment to Get Rid of Donald Trump? Here Are the Hurdles to Removing a Mentally Impaired President.

https://theintercept.com/2018/09/21/25th-amendment-trump/

 

[homersapien 11,366]

LOL, Salty gives me a "face slap" before he even has time to read it.  (As if he ever intended to) 

Typical.

[SaltyTiger 7,790]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

LOL, Salty gives me a "face slap" before he even has time to read it. 

Typical.

I did and do admit it.

57 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Trump is incompetent - if not a crazy mofo

 

[homersapien 11,366]

2 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I did and do admit it.

 

Then why the face slap? 

Quote:

"According to the amendment, if Vice President Mike Pence and a majority of Trump’s cabinet agree that Trump is mentally unfit for office, they can remove him and report their action to Congress. The amendment also includes a provision for what happens if the president fights back — a distinct possibility with Trump. If Trump resists leaving office, Pence and a majority of the cabinet would have four days to send a written declaration to the president pro tempore of the Senate — a position currently held by the longtime conservative Utah Senator Orrin Hatch — and House Speaker Paul Ryan. Congress would then have 48 hours to meet and consider the matter, and about three weeks to vote on it. A two-thirds vote would overturn the president’s protests and leave Pence in the White House. Anything less would put Trump back in power."
 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

4 hours ago, AU64 said:

I think that is what is usually called a coup …..no matter how sincere the person was about the need.   

It's not a coup when there is a constitutional amendment on the books for the very reason of protecting the best interests of the country.  And it can't be done by a single person.  The law is written that way to avoid the look of a coup.  It's why the action has to be started from the President's own Cabinet.

[SaltyTiger 7,790]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

ability to perform the functions of the office,

Why don't you convince us of inability to perform the functions of the office. Apparently many of are happy with things. I call it a coup to oust a President Trump and do not limit it to Rosenstein. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Why don't you convince us of inability to perform the functions of the office. Apparently many of are happy with things. I call it a coup to oust a President Trump and do not limit it to Rosenstein. 

Did you read the premise of Titan's first post?  This is a general discussion that is purposely not about Trump.  It's about when/how/why is it appropriate to use the 25th.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

1.  I think if they really feel there's reason to suspect he might be mentally "not all there," they not only should but have an obligation to do so.

2. Like, all by themselves?  No.  But talking with other members of the President's staff/cabinet and if there's a consensus to do so, proceed?  Yeah, probably.

What about you?

I think it is scary. Clearly by now there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that there was collusion....not with/by Russia.....but by own  DOJ, FBI, etc. I agree with AU64 that this should be considered a coup attempt. Where is the evidence, other than the hate for Trump crowd, that he is unfit for he job. That's just BS IMHO..

We know that the FISA warrants were based on false info and that falls at Rosenstein's feet. Also, and most important, this would essentially destroy the credibility of any thing the Mueller team comes up with re. Trump since he was appointed by Rosenstein and he reports to him in some manner.

I say all this under the premise of Rosenstein being guilty. He has denied it so I will presume his innocence until more proof comes out other than a NYT article. Wish that was true in some other current highly visible cases,

[SaltyTiger 7,790]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Did you read the premise of Titan's first post?  This is a general discussion that is purposely not about Trump.  It's about when/how/why is it appropriate to use the 25th.

Did you read dear Brother Homers post Brad? He made it about Trump. Ask him that same question.

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Trump is incompetent - if not a crazy mofo. 

 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

Did you read dear Brother Homers post Brad? He made it about Trump. Ask him that same question.

 

You quoted Titan when you made your comment.  By doing that, you should stay on topic.  If you have an issue with Homer, quote him.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

4 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I think it is scary. Clearly by now there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that there was collusion....not by Russia.....but by own  DOJ, FBI, etc. I agree with AU64 that this should be considered a coup attempt. Where is the evidence, other than the hate for Trump crowd, that he is unfit for he job. That's just BS IMHO..

We know that the FISA warrants were based on false info and that falls at Rosenstein's feet. Also, and most important, this would essentially destroy the credibility of any thing the Mueller team comes up with re. Trump since he was appointed by Rosenstein and he reports to him in some manner.

Again, as I said to Salty, use the exercise that Titan brought up and take Trump out of the equation.  Apply the standard to any president.  How do you feel about the law?  That's what Titan is getting at.

[SaltyTiger 7,790]

2 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

By doing that, you should stay on topic.  If you have an issue with Homer, quote him.

yes sir. sorry if I offended you Brad

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Just now, SaltyTiger said:

yes sir. sorry if I offended you Brad

Nowhere near offended.  Just hate it when people aren't consistent.

[SaltyTiger 7,790]

Just now, Brad_ATX said:

Nowhere near offended.  Just hate it when people aren't consistent.

I am waiting for you to call Brother Homer out. 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

6 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Again, as I said to Salty, use the exercise that Titan brought up and take Trump out of the equation.  Apply the standard to any president.  How do you feel about the law?  That's what Titan is getting at.

I would feel exactly the same way. I find it very scary for our country when someone like the DOJ, FBI, etc., try to do in a POTUS which has clearly been the case  with Comey, McCabe, Page, Strozk, Orr, etc..and now MAYBE the Dep. Dir. of DOJ

 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

6 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I am waiting for you to call Brother Homer out. 

Yup, the crazy mofo comment was unneeded (although I happen to agree, its not the place for that debate).  However, the link he provided is useful as it details the law being discussed and you've admitted to not even reading it.  Shows you have little interest in the discussion.