Fire Gus (merged threads)

[OnthePlains 2,014]

10 hours ago, keesler said:

Auburn can’t get an elite coach, if they could we’d have never seen the likes of Gene Chizik or Gus Malzhan and we’d have never paid one of ‘em $49mm/7 yr 75% guaranteed for what is basically a mediocre record and who can’t win a dang bowl game to save his life.

 Now they can kick his ass to the curb if they want, choke on the buyout and they still won’t pull an elite coach. It’s NOT happening, not at Auburn.

 

So sad, but so maddeningly true...

[AUApostle 7,651]

12 hours ago, keesler said:

Auburn can’t get an elite coach, if they could we’d have never seen the likes of Gene Chizik or Gus Malzhan and we’d have never paid one of ‘em $49mm/7 yr 75% guaranteed for what is basically a mediocre record and who can’t win a dang bowl game to save his life.

 Now they can kick his ass to the curb if they want, choke on the buyout and they still won’t pull an elite coach. It’s NOT happening, not at Auburn.

 

We can get an elite coach...we got one in basketball (sure the circumstances were right).  We're one of the top 10 jobs in America...we can get an elite coach...just not sure the PTB thinks we need one or wants to deal with one...maybe they'd rather be running the program and don't want to lose their access.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

On 10/13/2018 at 5:50 PM, TitanTiger said:

Yep.  Half up front, the rest divided over 4 years.

But everything is negotiable.  And also, it goes down approximately $7 million per year.  Does that go down Dec 1st or Dec 31st?  If it's earlier, you could wait til then and then the buyout is only about $25M.  If it's later, you could tell him he's gone as soon as the buyout goes down, or he can take $X amount now divided over the next 10 years rather than lose $7M while being a lame duck.

It goes down December 31st. 

Where do you get the $25M number from? I thought it would be closer to $23 (not that it makes a big difference).

Alternatively, maybe AU could negotiate a resign? 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Just now, NolaAuTiger said:

It goes down December 31st. 

Where do you get the $25M number from? I thought it would be closer to $23 (not that it makes a big difference).

Alternatively, maybe AU could negotiate a resign? 

I'm spitballing.  You could be closer to the right number.  Like you say, at that level it's not that big of a difference.

I doubt he'd resign and forfeit all that money completely.  I just think they'll try to work on him to bring that number down or make the payout over a longer time.  I could be wrong and be unaware of leverage they may have behind the scenes too though.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm spitballing.  You could be closer to the right number.  Like you say, at that level it's not that big of a difference.

I doubt he'd resign and forfeit all that money completely.  I just think they'll try to work on him to bring that number down or make the payout over a longer time.  I could be wrong and be unaware of leverage they may have behind the scenes too though.

At the end of the day, I just cannot grasp how the agreement, especially the clause provided below, serves Auburn University's best interest in light of Malzahn's track record. I guess we have lost some "impressive" bowl games????

[Auburn Kev 1,653]

 Who the hell negotiated this monstrosity? How did supposedly intelligent, educated people allow Auburn University to be hamstrung with this contract? Those responsible for this need to be exposed and publicly shamed. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

15 minutes ago, Auburn Kev said:

 Who the hell negotiated this monstrosity? How did supposedly intelligent, educated people allow Auburn University to be hamstrung with this contract? Those responsible for this need to be exposed and publicly shamed. 

Leath.

[Auburn Kev 1,653]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Leath.

I can't believe Leath negotiated the specifics of this contract, unilaterally.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

3 minutes ago, Auburn Kev said:

I can't believe Leath negotiated the specifics of this contract, unilaterally.

Wonder who will get the better end of this deal, Auburn or Arky....

[TitanTiger 20,472]

5 minutes ago, Auburn Kev said:

I can't believe Leath negotiated the specifics of this contract, unilaterally.

We didn't have an AD.  He got advice from powerful people but he steered that thing himself and signed off on that stuff and no one really had the authority to stop him.

[Auburn Kev 1,653]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

We didn't have an AD.  He got advice from powerful people but he steered that thing himself and signed off on that stuff and no one really had the authority to stop him.

So Leath answers to no one? Since it ain't his money, easy to spend. The BOT just rubber stamped the contract? 

[keesler 5,924]

1 hour ago, AUDevil said:

We can get an elite coach...we got one in basketball (sure the circumstances were right).  We're one of the top 10 jobs in America...we can get an elite coach...just not sure the PTB thinks we need one or wants to deal with one...maybe they'd rather be running the program and don't want to lose their access.

Agree to disagree. 

Until the PTB prove that Auburn can obtain an elite football coach, I refuse to believe they can. 

Terry Bowden from D-III Samford? TTubs from ncaa riddled OleMiss? Gene Chizik 5-19 from ISU? Gus Malzhan (1 yr HC experience) from ArkState?

AU ignored the "circumstances" with Bruce and luckily they had zero competition for BP's services, while he was was serving out the last leg of his 3 yr NCAA suspension and show cause.  It's not like Bruce's HC tenure at AU thus far has not been without a few smelly incidents the AU Compliance haven't had to deodorize.

Now on to baseball?

How 'bout softball?

 

 

 

[oracle79 3,569]

14 hours ago, keesler said:

Auburn JJ can’t get an elite coach,

FIFY

[keesler 5,924]

4 minutes ago, Auburn Kev said:

So Leath answers to no one? Since it ain't his money, easy to spend. The BOT just rubber stamped the contract? 

The timing of the CGM contract negotiation was perfect. 

Leath was brand new to AU,  and from the moment he moved into the office he had a plate off stinking s#it from Sunny Golloway (baseball) lawsuit PLUS the Corey/Clint Meyers (softball) fiasco where Title IX was involved PLUS he had the Chuck Persons (basketball) indictment where 2 other asst coaches were suspended PLUS 2 star players were benched for a season.  

Things were so out of freaking control in AU Athletics that Leath had to bring in an outside firm to conduct internal investigations in his own Athletic Department.  He was up to his ears with AU Compliance folks in and out non-stop from the moment he moved into his office PLUS lawyers, Title IX reps, and NCAA issues. Leath had to can Jay Jacobs, hunt for another AD (Greene) and put out fires where he could.

Now move on to AU Football - and Gus had gone through the annual  "off with his head" and "fire his ass" from the media & fan base due to the Clem/LSU losses.    CGM wanted security and assurance that his job was not in jeopardy, so his team kicked #1-#2 teams ass in JHS and he positioned AU in the CFP standings with a trip to ATL waiting in the wings.  CGM/Sexton had already stirred that pot of Hog fat in Arky and then they pounced like hungry Tigers on Leath......well we know how everything went down.

To lay a ton of blame on Leath is a little disingenuous (JMHO) - the man was in over his head with AU AD crap for months on months and the only ray of sunshine at the time was AU football and Gus Malzhan was the man responsible for where Auburn stood at the time.  CGM >> A man of character, with no off-the-field issues, no NCAA issues, no players parents taking $$, a man with a staff that hadn't embarrassingly humiliated Auburn in public and a man that "appeared" to have his program on the right track.

 

 

[beaumak 174]

16 hours ago, AUwarrior said:

My point is that he shouldn't have been hired if we expect elite results, BUT since he was hired and we have 5+ years of sweat equity invested it would be a waste to dump him for anything other than an elite head coach when he really hasnt had very long to fully develop as a HC in the grand scheme of things.  If an elite coach is available then great, lets get that guy,  but why dump him for another "hope he pans out" coach? He hasnt performed at an elite level consistently but he has fixed the defense and the program is in better shape than  it was when he took over.  

Oh i agree with your sentiment, but we are in a tough situation and really handcuffed as i would say. And thinking about it more now, i think keesler is right on what coach we can get. especially now. if we were to get a mediocre coach, then for pete's sake pay him that. If we somehow land a big name coach then at least throw some merit/demerit clause in there. or just go for only 4 years at high price or something. geez. i just figured it was obvious for Leath and AU officials to not give such a insane contract.

i digress. i'm done.

14 hours ago, keesler said:

Auburn can’t get an elite coach, if they could we’d have never seen the likes of Gene Chizik or Gus Malzhan and we’d have never paid one of ‘em $49mm/7 yr 75% guaranteed for what is basically a mediocre record and who can’t win a dang bowl game to save his life.

 Now they can kick his ass to the curb if they want, choke on the buyout and they still won’t pull an elite coach. It’s NOT happening, not at Auburn.

 

 

[lca408 366]

44 minutes ago, keesler said:

Agree to disagree. 

Until the PTB prove that Auburn can obtain an elite football coach, I refuse to believe they can. 

I think that we CAN get an elite coach. We'll see how Greene does in negotiations, etc. The issue is - since we've awarded gargantuan contracts to average and mediocre coaches, those agents will be pressing for more. Auburn will have to make their "elite" coach the highest paid in college football history to get them on board. No way Auburn can negotiate from any position of strength considering how we caved in to Malzahn and Jimmy Sexton. Ironically enough, Sexton will probably be the agent we'll be "negotiating" with again on that go-round. Can it get any more embarrassing?

[Tiger 8,818]

I think we can get an elite coach. Jimbo apparently told PTB that he wanted the AU job back during one of Gus' signature bad spells. National title winning coach was interested, what more could we want?

The problem is the number of elite candidates are less than 5. And you can scratch Saban, Urban, Dabo, and now Jimbo off the list. I'd say Bob Stoops is an elite level coach. 

But I think @AUDevil is right. I don't think the PTB want their hands taken out of the pot by hiring a big fish that would have the authority to tell them to back off.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

 

1 hour ago, keesler said:

Agree to disagree. 

Until the PTB prove that Auburn can obtain an elite football coach, I refuse to believe they can. 

Terry Bowden from D-III Samford? TTubs from ncaa riddled OleMiss? Gene Chizik 5-19 from ISU? Gus Malzhan (1 yr HC experience) from ArkState?

AU ignored the "circumstances" with Bruce and luckily they had zero competition for BP's services, while he was was serving out the last leg of his 3 yr NCAA suspension and show cause.  It's not like Bruce's HC tenure at AU thus far has not been without a few smelly incidents the AU Compliance haven't had to deodorize.

Now on to baseball?

How 'bout softball?

Here's the thing...the vast majority of the time even the elite programs don't just pluck an elite coach from someone else.  They hire up and comers.

Georgia:  When Dooley retired in 1988, they promoted his RB coach Ray Goff.  Goff was succeeded by Jim Donnan, the HC at Marshall.  Next was Mark Richt - the OC at FSU.  And now Kirby - the DC at Alabama.

Alabama:  After Bryant they hired an alum, Ray Perkins - a middling coach in the NFL.  He was followed by Bill Curry (lol), Gene Stallings (a failed coach in the NFL), Mike Dubose, Dennis Franchione (HC at TCU) and then Shula before getting Saban.

LSU:  a laundry list of no names and has beens.  When they hired Saban in 2002, he was just an up and comer at Michigan State.  Then Miles who was a pretty good get from Oklahoma St. and now Oregeron.

Florida:  Hit it big with UF alum Spurrier.  Floundered grabbing a one-year NFL DC in Ron Zook.  Hired up and coming Urban Meyer away from Mountain West Conference Utah.  Since then hired a coordinator (Muschamp), a HC from a Group of Five team (McElwain), and a HC from a mid tier SEC team.

Clemson:  laundry list of nobodies, promoted Swinney to interim HC then HC and took him six seasons to break through.

About the only "went out and got an elite coach" examples I've seen in recent times were Michigan getting Harbaugh, Bama getting Saban, and Ohio State getting Meyer.  All of them required some good fortune and none of them were swiped from another big time program.  Michigan had pursued Harbaugh, a UM alum, for years and his gig with the Niners was souring.  Saban had jumped to the NFL and quickly realized it was a disaster and wanted back in the college game, conveniently just as Shula's run was coming to an end.  Meyer had "retired" for health reasons and just happened to be available as the Tressel thing was falling apart and one year under Fickell.  There might be an example out there I'm missing but the point is taking an elite coach from somewhere else is about as rare as hen's teeth.  Most schools hire a guy from a lower tier program, or an up and coming coordinator.

Maybe your definition of elite coach is different from what I'm thinking so you're welcome to expound.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

1 hour ago, Auburn Kev said:

So Leath answers to no one? Since it ain't his money, easy to spend. The BOT just rubber stamped the contract? 

I mean, he answers to the BOT, but ultimately the buck stops with him.  To be sure he had some support to get a deal done with Gus from The People Who Matter (TM), but he also had some of TPWM telling him not to go nuts and negotiate cautiously.  He ran with that deal like Paul Revere and nearly sold the damn farm away.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

17 hours ago, AUwarrior said:

My point is that he shouldn't have been hired if we expect elite results, BUT since he was hired and we have 5+ years of sweat equity invested it would be a waste to dump him for anything other than an elite head coach when he really hasnt had very long to fully develop as a HC in the grand scheme of things.  If an elite coach is available then great, lets get that guy,  but why dump him for another "hope he pans out" coach? He hasnt performed at an elite level consistently but he has fixed the defense and the program is in better shape than  it was when he took over.  

This is a fallacious way of seeing this - the idea that we've invested so much in him we have to ride it out unless there's a clear better option.  Sometimes you don't have a clear way to make it better, but you still have to cut your losses.  Stop throwing good money after bad or in this case, stop allowing the program to sink further and further into irrelevance, creating a major rebuilding job for the next guy just so save some coin.

In Year Six, we know what we have with Gus.  We're kidding ourselves if we think it's going to get better.  He's an 8-5, 7-6 type coach who every few years will pop up and shock everyone.  That's not good enough.

[TigerFanAU 586]

I still just refuse to believe that we, as a university, were this careless with money. I'm holding out hope that there is some sort of provision deep within the fine print that is protecting our university.

[selias 2,398]

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

 

Here's the thing...the vast majority of the time even the elite programs don't just pluck an elite coach from someone else.  They hire up and comers.

Georgia:  When Dooley retired in 1988, they promoted his RB coach Ray Goff.  Goff was succeeded by Jim Donnan, the HC at Marshall.  Next was Mark Richt - the OC at FSU.  And now Kirby - the DC at Alabama.

Alabama:  After Bryant they hired an alum, Ray Perkins - a middling coach in the NFL.  He was followed by Bill Curry (lol), Gene Stallings (a failed coach in the NFL), Mike Dubose, Dennis Franchione (HC at TCU) and then Shula before getting Saban.

LSU:  a laundry list of no names and has beens.  When they hired Saban in 2002, he was just an up and comer at Michigan State.  Then Miles who was a pretty good get from Oklahoma St. and now Oregeron.

Florida:  Hit it big with UF alum Spurrier.  Floundered grabbing a one-year NFL DC in Ron Zook.  Hired up and coming Urban Meyer away from Mountain West Conference Utah.  Since then hired a coordinator (Muschamp), a HC from a Group of Five team (McElwain), and a HC from a mid tier SEC team.

Clemson:  laundry list of nobodies, promoted Swinney to interim HC then HC and took him six seasons to break through.

About the only "went out and got an elite coach" examples I've seen in recent times were Michigan getting Harbaugh, Bama getting Saban, and Ohio State getting Meyer.  All of them required some good fortune and none of them were swiped from another big time program.  Michigan had pursued Harbaugh, a UM alum, for years and his gig with the Niners was souring.  Saban had jumped to the NFL and quickly realized it was a disaster and wanted back in the college game, conveniently just as Shula's run was coming to an end.  Meyer had "retired" for health reasons and just happened to be available as the Tressel thing was falling apart and one year under Fickell.  There might be an example out there I'm missing but the point is taking an elite coach from somewhere else is about as rare as hen's teeth.  Most schools hire a guy from a lower tier program, or an up and coming coordinator.

Maybe your definition of elite coach is different from what I'm thinking so you're welcome to expound.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

4 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

I still just refuse to believe that we, as a university, were this careless with money. I'm holding out hope that there is some sort of provision deep within the fine print that is protecting our university.

We're a public university and Gus is a public employee.  His contract is readily available and has been posted here elsewhere.  There is no fine print.  We'll either pay him the full amount or figure out a way to negotiate it down with him. 

[Win4AU 4,052]

Based on what I’ve heard some notable Auburn people say on the radio today it may be win or gone for Gus this weekend.  Steele as interim and Lindsey running the O.  That’d either be complete team implosion or the light would come on.

[Mike4AU 1,739]

Link to Gus’ current contract:

https://www.scribd.com/document/370894790/Gus-Malzahn-Contract-Revision-2018