Who would replace Malzahn (merged threads again)

[AUGunsmith 666]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

Alabama also can run the ball very efficiently. It is not an extreme. I am not saying run the ball 80 percent of time. I am saying you better be able to run the ball when it matters. Or else you become another Oregon.

The pundits consider our defense to be elite so if they aren’t any better than us and this consider one of their “weaker” defense what does that tel you ? 

They run effectively because they have opened up the field with passing. Without their pass game, they struggle this year on O.

 

It tells me that we need to fire gus because he is our problem. Our O is the problem. Our line is a problem. Forcing a freshman QB to play is a problem.

[DAG 33,977]

Just now, AUGunsmith said:

They run effectively because they have opened up the field with passing. Without their pass game, they struggle this year on O.

 

It tells me that we need to fire gus because he is our problem. Our O is the problem. Our line is a problem. Forcing a freshman QB to play is a problem.

I agree with you 100 percent . Gus needs to go .

[MadtownTiger 363]

9 hours ago, AUDevil said:

Curious what your goal is with this scenario?  Bide time and survive until a good coach becomes available?  That sounds like a patchwork recipe to drown the program...just being honest.

You feel that strongly about promoting Steele?

Personally, while I would like to see a change at the top, I don't want to see total upheaval in the program.  If we needed to raze and rebuild, I would have a completely different position.  But I think, for the most part, our roster is elite, as is our defensive staff, and it would be a mistake to blow that up.  Promoting from within (McGriff or Williams) preserves the truly amazing thing we have going on defense.  Chavis might be an upgrade to Steele.  Plenty of other DC candidates available, obviously.

If we hire a defensive-minded HC, the OC becomes the highest-ranking offensive coach, so I would prefer a successful coordinator with HC experience.  Morris and Moorhead were both far more successful as OC and now have SEC HC experience.  Again, plenty of other candidates available.

Upgrading at OL coach is the only priority move I see among the non-coordinators.  Brent Key had a great run at uat, particularly as a recruiter.  It would likely take seven figures to get him away from GT, but I think it would be worth every penny.

WDE!

[LeonardAU 237]

I'm good with promoting Steele and making changes on offense.  Everyone's quick to shout TENNESSEE or FLORIDA STATE, but no one ever mentions that 2 of the current top 4 teams fired head coaches midseason & promoted from within.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, LeonardAU said:

I'm good with promoting Steele and making changes on offense.  Everyone's quick to shout TENNESSEE or FLORIDA STATE, but no one ever mentions that 2 of the current top 4 teams fired head coaches midseason & promoted from within.

Yup. A couple of former interims absolutely own our current coach. 

I get why people have knee jerk reactions to the thought of promoting Steele and using the rest of the season as an audition for the permanent gig but I think those are in fact knee jerk reactions given without much critical thought. It really does make a lot of sense in our situation. 

[leglessdan 1,934]

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Yup. A couple of former interims absolutely own our current coach. 

I get why people have knee jerk reactions to the thought of promoting Steele and using the rest of the season as an audition for the permanent gig but I think those are in fact knee jerk reactions given without much critical thought. It really does make a lot of sense in our situation. 

To be able to keep that defensive staff together would be a major victory obviously. Hiring an experienced innovative OC would be best case scenario atm.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

With the new pay-for-play rule on the horizon, I think what we really need is a coach who knows what skeletons Mark Emmett keeps in his closet. The X's and O's will work themselves out...

[AUApostle 7,651]

The Steele thing...sounds good...but it’s not a long term solution.  It’s more akin to Tubs’ move in 2003 not wanting to lose our promising offensive scheme.  We’re afraid to lose what’s working so we accept a mediocre patchwork solution to force it to work.  Kevin’s a Great DC under Gus, but he’s a 9-36 head coach.  We would just be hoping the Auburn brand and a couple of decades would be enough to turn him into a 36-9 type coach we’re all hoping for.  I’m skeptical.  We need energy and vision for recruiting, sound fundamentals for development, and creativity, experience, and wisdom on game day.  It’s a grind that I’m not sure he fits at this time.

[Mike4AU 1,739]

I posted this in a different Thread, but it surely fits here as well. 

There are a couple of non-financial factors that complicate a possible decision to axe Gus.  AU now has an interim President and what now appears to be an AD who wants to be somewhere else.  I think those factors reduce the universe of likely HC candidates. Someone like Steele would probably be very glad to get the job.  I am fairly certain that other candidates would also like to have the job.  I am also fairly certain tht many other candidates would pass.  We just don’t have the best foot forward right now.  Crud

I am beginning to think that Steele is our best answer right now, but, truthfully, I don’t see AU making a change right now even if Ga and UA blow us out.  I just don’t see any set of circumstances that Harbert would admit he made a mistake and pay the guy off.  Not in his DNA to admit he was wrong. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

22 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

The Steele thing...sounds good...but it’s not a long term solution.  It’s more akin to Tubs’ move in 2003 not wanting to lose our promising offensive scheme.  

Well, no. In 2003, we lost the guy responsible for that scheme and tried to replace him with... other guys. Hugh Nall was co-offensive coordinator, for God's sake. The Steele interim suggestion is actually the exact opposite of that. The whole point is staff continuity. 

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We’re afraid to lose what’s working so we accept a mediocre patchwork solution to force it to work.  

Except you have no way of knowing that it would be mediocre, and I'm not sure what "patchwork" even means. We essentially keep the same staff on defense (hopefully), hire one more guy, and then hire a new offensive staff. Which is actually far less "patchwork" than hiring an entirely new staff.

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Kevin’s a Great DC under Gus, but he’s a 9-36 head coach.  We would just be hoping the Auburn brand and a couple of decades would be enough to turn him into a 36-9 type coach we’re all hoping for.  

Yeah. Kinda like Ed Orgeron. 

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We need energy and vision for recruiting, sound fundamentals for development, and creativity, experience, and wisdom on game day.

You just very accurately described the defensive side of the ball since Steele got here. 

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It’s a grind that I’m not sure he fits at this time.

Fair question. 

 

[AUApostle 7,651]

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Well, no. In 2003, we lost the guy responsible for that scheme and tried to replace him with... other guys. Hugh Nall was co-offensive coordinator, for God's sake. The Steele interim suggestion is actually the exact opposite of that. The whole point is staff continuity. 

Except you have no way of knowing that it would be mediocre, and I'm not sure what "patchwork" even means. We essentially keep the same staff on defense (hopefully), hire one more guy, and then hire a new offensive staff. Which is actually far less "patchwork" than hiring an entirely new staff.

Yeah. Kinda like Ed Orgeron. 

You just very accurately described the defensive side of the ball since Steele got here. 

Fair question. 

 

 There are no guarantees.

 You're making A LOT of assumptions for such an easy transition. It's as much or more of a gamble as hiring a new staff (besides the fact that I think its a horribly bad idea)   #1, that Steele can be a successful HC, which he has proven to not be.  #2, That replacing him with another DC that he manages is going to equal the same results on D.  That Steele is capable of hiring the right OC and OL coach to rebuild our OL and entire offensive identity and transition that side of the ball smoothly.

Coach O is great.  He's a very unique individual and did some great things at USC in his interim role.  You want to hire Coach O...b/c he's not Kevin Steele?

Patchwork means we're trying to repair the same worn out fabric, or sinking ship, or old jalopy, to get us through whatever storm or journey we're on and help us survive.  It's not sustainable for building a powerhouse on solid footing for a long time, and it's a lot of effort for a "meh" plan when it's all said and done.  Burn it down and build new.  I think we need to clean house and get new direction, new vision, and new energy.  Often that requires letting go of something special.

[api1957 1,783]

Would anyone be opposed to Les Miles? He can build a program and since he's worked with Steele before maybe he wouldn't mess with the defensive staff. BUT you'd be trading one stubborn offense for another. You know he doesn't want to be at Kansas.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

 There are no guarantees.

Of course not. There's no guarantee that Steele can do it, nor is there a guarantee that whoever we do hire would be better.

What is closer to a guarantee, though, than any other option is us maintaining a championship-caliber defense if we were to promote Steele. If you have that option close to locked up out of the gate, than you're a hell of a lot closer to guaranteed than any other scenario.

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You're making A LOT of assumptions for such an easy transition.

I'm not making any assumptions. 

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It's as much or more of a gamble as hiring a new staff

That, on the other hand, sounds like an assumption.

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that Steele can be a successful HC, which he has proven to not be.  

He proved that he wasn't a successful head coach a long time ago in a completely different situation. 

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That replacing him with another DC that he manages is going to equal the same results on D.  

While I'm not assuming it's true, I feel very strongly that the chances are at least as good that we'll field a quality defense as if we hired literally any other coach. I would be curious to hear your exact thoughts on why you think that would be unlikely, and which candidate is likely to produce a better defense.

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That Steele is capable of hiring the right OC and OL coach to rebuild our OL and entire offensive identity and transition that side of the ball smoothly.

 Again, which candidate gives us a better chance and why?

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Coach O is great.  He's a very unique individual and did some great things at USC in his interim role.  You want to hire Coach O...b/c he's not Kevin Steele?

How familiar are you with Orgeron's resume? Honest question.

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Patchwork means we're trying to repair the same worn out fabric, or sinking ship, or old jalopy, to get us through whatever storm or journey we're on and help us survive.  It's not sustainable for building a powerhouse on solid footing for a long time, and it's a lot of effort for a "meh" plan when it's all said and done.  Burn it down and build new.  I think we need to clean house and get new direction, new vision, and new energy.  Often that requires letting go of something special.

Again, please look a little closer at Orgeron's resume. Particularly under his current employer. Please do same with Dabo Swinney. 

 

One other thing to consider. Kevin Steele sure as hell knows a lot about mistakes to avoid when it comes to offense.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 minutes ago, api1957 said:

Would anyone be opposed to Les Miles? He can build a program and since he's worked with Steele before maybe he wouldn't mess with the defensive staff. BUT you'd be trading one stubborn offense for another. You know he doesn't want to be at Kansas.

I'm extremely tired of Les Miles and hope we replace him with somebody else.

[AUApostle 7,651]

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Of course not. There's no guarantee that Steele can do it, nor is there a guarantee that whoever we do hire would be better.

What is closer to a guarantee, though, than any other option is us maintaining a championship-caliber defense if we were to promote Steele. If you have that option close to locked up out of the gate, than you're a hell of a lot closer to guaranteed than any other scenario.

I'm not making any assumptions. 

That, on the other hand, sounds like an assumption.

He proved that he wasn't a successful head coach a long time ago in a completely different situation. 

While I'm not assuming it's true, I feel very strongly that the chances are at least as good that we'll field a quality defense as if we hired literally any other coach. I would be curious to hear your exact thoughts on why you think that would be unlikely, and which candidate is likely to produce a better defense.

 Again, which candidate gives us a better chance and why?

How familiar are you with Orgeron's resume? Honest question.

Again, please look a little closer at Orgeron's resume. Particularly under his current employer. Please do same with Dabo Swinney. 

 

One other thing to consider. Kevin Steele sure as hell knows a lot about mistakes to avoid when it comes to offense.  

You are assuming a failed head coach will become the great head coach we need because of Coach O.  Coach O and Steele are nothing alike.  You're assuming that he'll buck AU's trend of coordinator to HC mediocrity/failure.  You're placing VERY short term recruiting and consistency of a guy that probably has less than 4 years left in him as a priority over going after the most qualified candidates.

 

 

[AUApostle 7,651]

31 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I'm extremely tired of Les Miles and hope we replace him with somebody else.

Yay, we agree.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

You are assuming a failed head coach will become the great head coach we need because of Coach O.  Coach O and Steele are nothing alike.

I'm assuming neither that he'll become a great coach nor that he actually has anything to do with Orgeron. I'm merely pointing out that the assumptions about patchwork this and failed coach that are proven inaccurate by Orgeron's success at LSU. He is a former failed head coach who became an interim head coach who became the #1 coach in the country. For the moment, at least. 

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 You're assuming that he'll buck AU's trend of coordinator to HC mediocrity/failure.  

Nope. I'm just not assuming that somebody else is better. 

13 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

 You're placing VERY short term recruiting and consistency of a guy that probably has less than 4 years left in him as a priority over going after the most qualified candidates.

Even if your assumption that he only has 4 years left is correct, that could provide a very nice, stable bridge to the next guy.

 

Also, let's remember that the Steele plan is predicated on making a change now and letting him audition for the permanent gig for the rest of the season. If it goes poorly, then we move on just like we would have otherwise.

[AUApostle 7,651]

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

 

Nope. I'm just not assuming that somebody else is better. 

 

There most definitely is someone better, always is...just have to find our Bruce Pearl of football and get out of his way.

[AUApostle 7,651]

Question for all ya'll (because I cannot keep arguing with Loof...he's relentless)

 

1. Who is a coach who you thought would be a huge success, but fell flat?

 

2. Who is a present up and coming coach that you think will turn into a huge success?

 

3. Who is a coach that you knew would suck, but everyone else was into for some reason?

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

There most definitely is someone better, always is...just have to find our Bruce Pearl of football and get out of his way.

Hey, we agree again! Allow me to amend my prior comment.

I'm not assuming that someone else is better, and that we will identify that person, and that we will hire that person.

[AuCivilEng1 11,000]

7 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

Question for all ya'll (because I cannot keep arguing with Loof...he's relentless)

 

1. Who is a coach who you thought would be a huge success, but fell flat?

 

2. Who is a present up and coming coach that you think will turn into a huge success?

 

3. Who is a coach that you knew would suck, but everyone else was into for some reason?

 

1. Harbaugh so far.

2. PJ Fleck or ......Mullen😒

3. Moorehead.

[AuburnEagle79 2,165]

2 hours ago, AUDevil said:

The Steele thing...sounds good...but it’s not a long term solution.  It’s more akin to Tubs’ move in 2003 not wanting to lose our promising offensive scheme.  We’re afraid to lose what’s working so we accept a mediocre patchwork solution to force it to work.  Kevin’s a Great DC under Gus, but he’s a 9-36 head coach.  We would just be hoping the Auburn brand and a couple of decades would be enough to turn him into a 36-9 type coach we’re all hoping for.  I’m skeptical.  We need energy and vision for recruiting, sound fundamentals for development, and creativity, experience, and wisdom on game day.  It’s a grind that I’m not sure he fits at this time.

You bring up fair questions.

Do you think that Kevin Steele could consistently keep our defense loaded with talent and at worst perform at an above average level? I do.

Do you think he could hire an OC that can recruit 4-5* talent and score 30 points a game? I do. 

If he did those things we would win at least 9 games a year, and probably 10-11 frequently. 

The majority of our offensive staff right now could not be hired anywhere else because of their product. Many schools would clean house for our defensive staff. 

With all of that being said, I'd rather hire an offensive minded head coach and retain Steele, but Steele would not be a bad option, and I certainly don't want to lose him. 

[MadtownTiger 363]

1 hour ago, AUDevil said:

The Steele thing...sounds good...but it’s not a long term solution.  It’s more akin to Tubs’ move in 2003 not wanting to lose our promising offensive scheme.  We’re afraid to lose what’s working so we accept a mediocre patchwork solution to force it to work.  Kevin’s a Great DC under Gus, but he’s a 9-36 head coach.  We would just be hoping the Auburn brand and a couple of decades would be enough to turn him into a 36-9 type coach we’re all hoping for.  I’m skeptical.  We need energy and vision for recruiting, sound fundamentals for development, and creativity, experience, and wisdom on game day.  It’s a grind that I’m not sure he fits at this time.

Unavoidably true, but everybody failed at Baylor before Briles.  And it was Steele's first HC job, a long time ago.  He's been an analyst for dink twice since then.  But, Steele is exactly what you say he is, and there are definitely better hires that could be made.

I think we all agree any scenario should involve a public announcement of the vacancy to test the market.  Something crazy might happen, like, Pete Carroll reunites with Sarkisian, Kiffin, Quinn and Rishard.  Two high-profile, competent, college coaches running the offense paired with the Legion of Boom defensive coaches.  For what it's worth, I could go for something far less crazy.

WDE!

 

[bigbird 60,499]

41 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

Question for all ya'll (because I cannot keep arguing with Loof...he's relentless)

 

1. Who is a coach who you thought would be a huge success, but fell flat?

 

2. Who is a present up and coming coach that you think will turn into a huge success?

 

3. Who is a coach that you knew would suck, but everyone else was into for some reason?

 

Moorhead

Heupel, Yurcich, Scott, Shane Beamer

Charlie Strong

[MadtownTiger 363]

35 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

Question for all ya'll (because I cannot keep arguing with Loof...he's relentless)

1. Who is a coach who you thought would be a huge success, but fell flat?

2. Who is a present up and coming coach that you think will turn into a huge success? 

3. Who is a coach that you knew would suck, but everyone else was into for some reason?

1.  Kevin Sumlin.  I actually thought Kingsbury made a mistake professionally by leaving his tutelage.  Shows what I know.

2.  Mel Tucker or Kris Rishard.  I think both will be moderately successful NFL HCs in a few years.  Tucker might stick with college.

3.  Freddie Kitchens.  The Browns were the popular pick to win the division, maybe contend for the Super Bowl, but I could see the waves of dumbness like heat on the highway.

WDE!