Article "shut down the prayer"

[aubiefifty 16,761]

oanow.com

Group says faith, football don't mix; 'Auburn needs to shut down the prayer'

Scott Fields | Sports Editor Opelika-Auburn Newssfields@oanow.com Follow on Twitter Kara Coleman Fields | News Editor Opelika-Auburn Newskcoleman@oanow.com Follow on Twitter

7-8 minutes

A Wisconsin-based secular group announced Tuesday that it is fighting the religious culture in Auburn University’s football program.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) said in a press release that it sent Auburn an open records request in 2014, asking for information related to football chaplain Chette Williams.

The church-and-state watchdog decided to continue its efforts “to stop the unconstitutionally excessive piety in Auburn University’s football program” after a video surfaced of Williams leading the team in prayer before Auburn’s Homecoming game against Southern Mississippi on Sept. 29.

The AL.com video shows the team standing, arms linked in a circle on Pat Dye Field. Williams prays out loud before two of the football players take turns praying aloud as well.

“We pray for each family represented in this circle, Father,” Williams said in the video. “We pray for those who are traveling to the game, but most of all Father, we pray that your power and presence be with this team today.”

The FFRF shared a letter to Auburn University President Steven Leath, dated Monday, in which legal fellow Christopher Line stated that multiple people complained to the organization about the prayer when the video was published.

“We’d like to remind AU that employing a chaplain and giving him unfettered access to a captive audience of football players is unconstitutional,” the letter read. “While student athletes are free to pray, either individually or as (a) group, university staff members should not be leading, participating in, or encouraging students to engage in religious exercises, or hiring ‘chaplains’ to do so.”

According to a statement from the university to the Opelika-Auburn News on Tuesday night, “The football team chaplain isn’t an Auburn employee, and participation in activities he leads are voluntary.”

The letter from the FFRF references its 2014 open records request, saying the organization exchanged emails with a then-assistant athletic director, Cassie Arner, and submitted a $500 deposit, then never received the documents it requested from the university.

The letter also again requested documents including records of the chaplain’s travel with the football team and communication between the chaplain and football staff regarding Bible studies or other religious activities for the team.

“Auburn needs to shut down the prayer and chaplaincy that it has permitted for so long in its football program,” FFRF co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor said in a press release from the foundation. “By allowing it to continue, it is giving its official seal of approval to Christian proselytizing that is not only unconstitutional but also alienating to non-Christian and nonreligious athletes. No student should be expected to pray to play.”

Williams’ legacy on the Plains

A former linebacker (1982-84) for the Tigers, Williams has served as the Auburn football team chaplain since 1999.

Williams also serves as the Auburn campus director for the Fellowship of Christian Athletes (FCA) and the State Director for Urban Ministries for FCA, according to his profile on the Auburn Athletics website. According to the Auburn University FCA website, Williams “ministers on a daily basis not only to coaches, players and their families, but to numerous staff throughout the athletic department as well.”

AU and FFRF in the past

The FFRF previously sent a letter Aug. 18, 2015, to then-Auburn University president Jay Gogue, urging the university to disallow “student body chaplains or other religious representatives” from having special access to players, as per the organization’s “Pray To Play Report” that was published in 2015.

In a letter from FFRF co-presidents Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor to Gogue, the organization stated that “it makes no difference if the chaplain is unofficial, not school-sponsored, or a volunteer, because chaplains are given access to the team as a means for coaches to impose religion, usually Christianity, on their players.”

The university responded at the time with a denial of Williams’ employment with the university.

“Chaplains are common in many public institutions, including the U.S. Congress," the Auburn Athletic Department said in its statement in 2015 in response to the FFRF’s letter to Gogue. "The football team chaplain isn’t an Auburn employee, and participation in activities he leads (is) voluntary.”

Previous dealing in Lee County

FFRF was also involved in Lee County last year in regard to a prayer that was broadcasted over the loudspeaker of a Smiths Station High School football game on Aug. 25, 2017. The organization stated that it was contacted “by a concerned District parent” following the school’s football game.

The complaint filed Aug. 31 to Superintendent James McCoy referenced several U.S. Supreme Court decisions on the issue of school prayer. Specifically, the letter from the FFRF cited the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1992 ruling in the case of Lee v. Weisman, which struck down school-sponsored prayer in public schools.

Additionally, the FFRF cited the Court’s opinion from its 2000 ruling of Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe that ruled that student-led, student-initiated prayer that was broadcast over a loudspeaker at football games violated the Establishment Clause of the United States Constitution.

Lee County Schools responded, through Huntsville law firm Lanier Ford Shavey and Payne, to the FFRF’s complaint on Sept. 11, 2017, in a letter signed by attorney William Sanderson. In the letter, Sanderson wrote, “Dr. McCoy has informed his principals that he expects all Lee County Schools to comply with current law with respect to prayer at football games held on Lee County Schools property.”

Lee County Schools, which includes Smiths Station, Loachapoka, Beauregard and Beulah, abided by McCoy’s directive following the complaint.

Despite the halt of the prayer being broadcast over the loudspeaker, students and parents recited the Lord’s Prayer during a moment of silence at Beauregard and at Central-Phenix City when Smiths Station traveled there on Sept. 22.

[aujeff11 6,243]

15 pages

[aubiefifty 16,761]

if players are not being forced to pray i say let them have at it.

[aubiefifty 16,761]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

15 pages

aren't you special. go find something and post it jeff.

[aubiefifty 16,761]

a bummer fan made this comment and i never realized it. he said

 

  "Congress shall make no law". How can they still have a prayer before a session in Congress, the very seat of our government, but not a football game?

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

aren't you special. go find something and post it jeff.

I wasn’t attacking you at all. Back it up.

[gr82be 14,423]

"Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing" still. 

[aubiefifty 16,761]

Just now, aujeff11 said:

I wasn’t attacking you at all. Back it up.

i take the trouble to post something and you bitch about how long it is? nope. and i refuse to argue with it anymore. and yes i know it was not personal. at least it was not another bash gus or bash the team or whatever.

[triangletiger 1,599]

9 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

15 pages

Before the thread gets moved to the 'Politics' forum?

[aubiefifty 16,761]

1 minute ago, triangletiger said:

Before the thread gets moved to the 'Politics' forum?

maybe? they are attacking the football team directly so i am not sure?

[I_M4_AU 7,801]

Nice timing of the article after what happened in Pittsburgh. Prayers sent.

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

Before the thread gets moved to the 'Politics' forum?

Yep. I’m not sure what has changed since the article last year, but FFRF has been targeting Auburn for awhile now. Most posters on here don’t like it, although RIR and a few others think we aren’t a theocratic institution and should stop. IIWII. 

 

8 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i take the trouble to post something and you bitch about how long it is? nope. and i refuse to argue with it anymore.

You misinterpreted what I meant. I was talking about the thread.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

Don't think Chette is paid thru the University. 

[aubiefifty 16,761]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

Yep. I’m not sure what has changed since the article last year, but FFRF has been targeting Auburn for awhile now. Most posters on here don’t like it, although RIR and a few others think we aren’t a theocratic institution and should stop. IIWII. 

 

You misinterpreted what I meant. I was talking about the thread.

well then i apologize and honestly mean it.

[musicitytiger 281]

In God We Trust, that’s how we do it down here.  How much do we all need to donate to enable the university to continue to tell this group to where they can go?

[selias 2,398]

[triangletiger 1,599]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for redress of grievances."

 

I'd be curious as to how they make the case that having a team chaplain, who provides his services on a voluntary basis, and which do not entail compulsory player involvement, is unconstitutional.

[chimes 442]

Diving into the deep end...

 

As long as they’re not being forced the join it’s going to be hard to “prove” that it’s unconstitutional, but I do think an argument could be made that it’s unethical. Do I have a problem with it? No. I’m also a Christian living in the Deep South so it’s well within my comfort zone. Imagine being an atheist or practicing another religion and having coaches and teammates joining in and you being ostracized for not. They’re at the school to learn and play football- not for religious purposes. All the prayer in the world can be done away from football and school activities.

Again, I don’t have any issue with it but I do try to understand where others might come from. Objectivity is a lacking trait in our society.

[looney 794]

8 minutes ago, chimes said:

Diving into the deep end...

 

As long as they’re not being forced the join it’s going to be hard to “prove” that it’s unconstitutional, but I do think an argument could be made that it’s unethical. Do I have a problem with it? No. I’m also a Christian living in the Deep South so it’s well within my comfort zone. Imagine being an atheist or practicing another religion and having coaches and teammates joining in and you being ostracized for not. They’re at the school to learn and play football- not for religious purposes. All the prayer in the world can be done away from football and school activities.

Again, I don’t have any issue with it but I do try to understand where others might come from. Objectivity is a lacking trait in our society.

And I think this is at the heart of the FFRF's *request for information*. At this point, it doesn't sound to me like an "attack," as some are characterizing it. That organization just seeks to make sure folks of the non-predominant religious persuasion in this country aren't ever being discriminated against based on their particular flavor of worship (or lack therof).

IF (big IF) kids are being unduly persuaded to attend these prayer meetings (as in, there are spoken/unspoken rules that if you don't attend you can't play or participate in some way that you would be allowed to otherwise) then it's unfair. And based on what I read, that's all they're trying to find out.

EDIT: To be perfectly clear, I am not saying that such rules exist. I'd have no way of knowing that.

[Linayus 676]

It is 100% voluntary. Gus, a self-proclaimed Christian man, does not even join the players for prayer before the game.

[chimes 442]

11 minutes ago, Linayus said:

It is 100% voluntary. Gus, a self-proclaimed Christian man, does not even join the players for prayer before the game.

This is how I handle it. I allow my players to pray after practices and before games but I do not lead or join. 

[Linayus 676]

1 minute ago, chimes said:

This is how I handle it. I allow my players to pray after practices and before games but I do not lead or join. 

As it should be! I think this group is just trying it again because we have a new University President. Futile attempts really.

[doc4aday 1,887]

This team needs all of the prayers they can get. I say this seriously as well as with a bit of decent humor mixed in. I love Coach Chette and think he is an absolute positive force for the team. Those folks complaining need even more prayers than the team imho.

[Swamp Eagle 5,134]

2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

if players are not being forced to pray i say let them have at it.

It's been well-documented that it is voluntary. Never will I understand people who organize armies against an enemy they don't believe exists.

[aubiefifty 16,761]

Just now, Swamp Eagle said:

It's been well-documented that it is voluntary. Never will I understand people who organize armies against an enemy they don't believe exists.

yes i know this i was just trying to bring balance on the thread.