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ChltteTiger

Gus' coaching tree

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Every time I see a Nick Satan/bammer article on other CFB sites that is as usual praising Bammer's dominance, can't help but think Lil Nicky had to have learned his "process" from mentors like Belichik(sp). Am I wrong or did NS just invent the damned process? I get to wondering that "coaching tree" must be pretty important when selecting a HC for a major university like AU. So Gus' coaching tree was ..Gene Chizik and Houston Nutt? Did the PTB who picked Gus not think maybe that is not a very impressive tree? Frustrated..

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I've routinely said coaching tree and pedigree is the best indicator for future success.  It isn't always the case, but it pretty dang close.

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Of course some on here (no names) think the "process" is a myth and the real process is the cash enducements by the REC for exceptional play etc. But the evidence for that theory is limited to a few since-deleted twitter posts by stupid players. Certainly no hard-digging journalists are out there getting at the truth,

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4 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I've routinely said coaching tree and pedigree is the best indicator for future success.  It isn't always the case, but it pretty dang close.

I agree wholeheartedly! However, it is hard to grow a tree out of a tumbling tumbleweed! Just sayin'.  :dunno:

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5 minutes ago, ChltteTiger said:

Of course some on here (no names) think the "process" is a myth and the real process is the cash enducements by the REC for exceptional play etc. But the evidence for that theory is limited to a few since-deleted twitter posts by stupid players. Certainly no hard-digging journalists are out there getting at the truth,

Both are very real

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45 minutes ago, ChltteTiger said:

Every time I see a Nick Satan/bammer article on other CFB sites that is as usual praising Bammer's dominance, can't help but think Lil Nicky had to have learned his "process" from mentors like Belichik(sp). Am I wrong or did NS just invent the damned process? I get to wondering that "coaching tree" must be pretty important when selecting a HC for a major university like AU. So Gus' coaching tree was ..Gene Chizik and Houston Nutt? Did the PTB who picked Gus not think maybe that is not a very impressive tree? Frustrated..

And to think Gus was at the top of the tree. Yes, the PTB Charlie Browned us on that one.

Screenshot_20181106-085114~2.png

Edited by gr82be
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9 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Both are very real

Concerning the lack of hard-digging journalism maybe they just plain fear for their lives?

I know I've watched too many thrillers but still there's got to be a reason.

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59 minutes ago, ChltteTiger said:

Every time I see a Nick Satan/bammer article on other CFB sites that is as usual praising Bammer's dominance, can't help but think Lil Nicky had to have learned his "process" from mentors like Belichik(sp). Am I wrong or did NS just invent the damned process? I get to wondering that "coaching tree" must be pretty important when selecting a HC for a major university like AU. So Gus' coaching tree was ..Gene Chizik and Houston Nutt? Did the PTB who picked Gus not think maybe that is not a very impressive tree? Frustrated..

 

23 minutes ago, ChltteTiger said:

Of course some on here (no names) think the "process" is a myth and the real process is the cash enducements by the REC for exceptional play etc. But the evidence for that theory is limited to a few since-deleted twitter posts by stupid players. Certainly no hard-digging journalists are out there getting at the truth,

Gus's lack of coaching mentors has come home to roost the last few seasons. I honestly feel like 2015 completely shook him and, without really having a solid foundation to fall back on, he's been lost ever since. (2 games last November notwithstanding.) There have been multiple examples of him being completely lost and overwhelmed by the moment. He's been outcoached by Ed Orgeron twice.

And yes, saban invented his process, but if you compare Belichick's primary characteristics as a head coach to saban's, you'll see a lot of similarities. The Patriots' theme is "Do Your Job". In both cases, the focus is on every player doing their job to the best of their ability on the very next snap of the ball. It's also similar to "eating the elephant",  somewhat ironically. Also, in both cases it requires absolutely demonic commitment to detail, adaptability- consider that Bill Belichick has been both his own acting offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator on a highly successful NFL team, and that saban has won national championships with both Greg McElroy and Jalen Hurts/Tua Tagalong as QBs and has had his players take improv classes to learn how to communicate better- and the ability to empower their assistants while also securing buy-in to their core philosophies. Among other things. 

Anyway, you're very much onto something IMO. saban was hanging out with future NFL royalty in Cleveland while Gus was making awkward dance videos with some high school AV club in Arkansas. The results speak for themselves. 


Edit: Whoops. In the midst of my long-winded rant, @gr82be beat me to the Charlie Brown Christmas tree pic.

Edited by McLoofus
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3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

 

Gus's lack of coaching mentors has come home to roost the last few seasons. I honestly feel like 2015 completely shook him and, without really having a solid foundation to fall back on, he's been lost ever since. (2 games last November notwithstanding.) There have been multiple examples of him being completely lost and overwhelmed by the moment. He's been outcoached by Ed Orgeron twice.

The results speak for themselves. 

 

he has also been outcoached by multiple first year coaches over the past few years, not to mention Jimbo twice.  He only reacts to adverse situations.  (hence coaching for his job)   He is unable to anticipate and get in front of trends or counter what he sees on the field.  

 

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12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

 saban was hanging out with future NFL royalty in Cleveland while Gus was making awkward dance videos with some high school AV club in Arkansas. The results speak for themselves. 

giphy.gif

 

 

Edited by Tiger
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So as much as I hate it...NS best college level coach of all time.... And yes slot say that you can always win with bags of cash.... But getting recruits is only a small portion of the whole pie. The recruits have to be evaluated.... You have to get good recruits but also know what recruits will fit your system and more importantly if you don't get the recruits that fit your system.... The tailor your system to the players you have. In others... adaptability. Then you have to be able to manage your roster... Make sure if a player isn't ready you don't throw him to the wolves and room his confidence... You let him developer... And you developer him. ... This would be... Development.... Then... And probably the most important... Is the process.... The process is real as it gets... It goes down to every detail of every thing these kids do and more importantly the way in which they do it. It reminds me of a speech I saw by a military general....I don't remember the name our every word.... But essentially he said if you want to change the world start by making your bed. And making your bed correctly. That's why the military is so strict on these things. You make your bed every morning and that is a task completed... Then you will complete another tasks... Then another... And so on. Everything saban checked players do it's done in a way to maximize their potential and instill a Winning mentality....

 

So I think if those traits there are several that CGM is missing in.... Starting with evaluation.... Then development.... And most of all.... adaptability

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19 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

 

Gus's lack of coaching mentors has come home to roost the last few seasons. I honestly feel like 2015 completely shook him and, without really having a solid foundation to fall back on, he's been lost ever since. (2 games last November notwithstanding.) There have been multiple examples of him being completely lost and overwhelmed by the moment. He's been outcoached by Ed Orgeron twice.

And yes, saban invented his process, but if you compare Belichick's primary characteristics as a head coach to saban's, you'll see a lot of similarities. The Patriots' theme is "Do Your Job". In both cases, the focus is on every player doing their job to the best of their ability on the very next snap of the ball. It's also similar to "eating the elephant",  somewhat ironically. Also, in both cases it requires absolutely demonic commitment to detail, adaptability- consider that Bill Belichick has been both his own acting offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator on a highly successful NFL team, and that saban has won national championships with both Greg McElroy and Jalen Hurts/Tua Tagalong as QBs and has had his players take improv classes to learn how to communicate better- and the ability to empower their assistants while also securing buy-in to their core philosophies. Among other things. 

Anyway, you're very much onto something IMO. saban was hanging out with future NFL royalty in Cleveland while Gus was making awkward dance videos with some high school AV club in Arkansas. The results speak for themselves. 


Edit: Whoops. In the midst of my long-winded rant, @gr82be beat me to the Charlie Brown Christmas tree pic.

Now 'Loof, you know it's all about the $$/Dodge Chargers/Hot Wheelz/$$/houses/suits/$$/fishing trips/tatoos/drug dealers/$$/all expense paid relocation/beach condo hide-aways/$$/free air travel/'roids/$$/deer antler spray/HGH.  Those are the only things that make those players do their job, know their assignments, become elite route runners, tackle and block effectively, execute the game plan, improve as the season progresses, learn the playbook, focus and pay attention to the details.  

:drippingsarcasm7pa:

 

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27 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

 

Gus's lack of coaching mentors has come home to roost the last few seasons. I honestly feel like 2015 completely shook him and, without really having a solid foundation to fall back on, he's been lost ever since. (2 games last November notwithstanding.) There have been multiple examples of him being completely lost and overwhelmed by the moment. He's been outcoached by Ed Orgeron twice.

And yes, saban invented his process, but if you compare Belichick's primary characteristics as a head coach to saban's, you'll see a lot of similarities. The Patriots' theme is "Do Your Job". In both cases, the focus is on every player doing their job to the best of their ability on the very next snap of the ball. It's also similar to "eating the elephant",  somewhat ironically. Also, in both cases it requires absolutely demonic commitment to detail, adaptability- consider that Bill Belichick has been both his own acting offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator on a highly successful NFL team, and that saban has won national championships with both Greg McElroy and Jalen Hurts/Tua Tagalong as QBs and has had his players take improv classes to learn how to communicate better- and the ability to empower their assistants while also securing buy-in to their core philosophies. Among other things. 

Anyway, you're very much onto something IMO. saban was hanging out with future NFL royalty in Cleveland while Gus was making awkward dance videos with some high school AV club in Arkansas. The results speak for themselves. 


Edit: Whoops. In the midst of my long-winded rant, @gr82be beat me to the Charlie Brown Christmas tree pic.

A lack of adaptability and no clear direction. Two killers for a leader. 

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3 minutes ago, keesler said:

Now 'Loof, you know it's all about the $$/Dodge Chargers/Hot Wheelz/$$/houses/suits/$$/fishing trips/tatoos/drug dealers/$$/all expense paid relocation/beach condo hide-aways/$$/free air travel/'roids/$$/deer antler spray/HGH.  Those are the only things that make those players do their job, know their assignments, become elite route runners, tackle and block effectively, execute the game plan, improve as the season progresses, learn the playbook, focus and pay attention to the details.  

:drippingsarcasm7pa:

You'd think that bama could save themselves a ton of money on that coaching salary and just give Ronny from Tuscumbia expense accounts at Race Trac and the nearest Bama Fever store and let him tell those self-motivated, self-disciplined, fully finished NFL machines which sideline to stand on. 

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3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You'd think that bama could save themselves a ton of money on that coaching salary and just give Ronny from Tuscumbia expense accounts at Race Trac and the nearest Bama Fever store and let him tell those self-motivated, self-disciplined, fully finished NFL machines which sideline to stand on. 

👍🏼

They've had a ton of players dumb as rocks (Foster/Hootie/Cody/Darius) many players AU recruited to go through there, somehow those bags of $$ results in a super high "football IQ" once those buffoons take the field.  

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58 minutes ago, gr82be said:

And to think Gus was at the top of the tree. Yes, the PTB Charlie Browned us on that one.

Screenshot_20181106-085114~2.png

Dang it, you best me to it!  That was the first thought that crossed my mind when I read the title of the post.  🙂

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Saban is a great coach.  The recruiting machine he has built is the difference.  Process or no process, 7 straight number 1 recruiting classes puts you where Bama is.  There are plenty of good X and O coaches... but no one matches Alabama’s talent and until someone does they will be winning most games every year.  I’m just glad to be a fan of a school that has regularly beaten him at LSU and Bama.

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30 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

So as much as I hate it...NS best college level coach of all time.... And yes slot say that you can always win with bags of cash.... But getting recruits is only a small portion of the whole pie. The recruits have to be evaluated.... You have to get good recruits but also know what recruits will fit your system and more importantly if you don't get the recruits that fit your system.... The tailor your system to the players you have. In others... adaptability. Then you have to be able to manage your roster... Make sure if a player isn't ready you don't throw him to the wolves and room his confidence... You let him developer... And you developer him. ... This would be... Development.... Then... And probably the most important... Is the process.... The process is real as it gets... It goes down to every detail of every thing these kids do and more importantly the way in which they do it. It reminds me of a speech I saw by a military general....I don't remember the name our every word.... But essentially he said if you want to change the world start by making your bed. And making your bed correctly. That's why the military is so strict on these things. You make your bed every morning and that is a task completed... Then you will complete another tasks... Then another... And so on. Everything saban checked players do it's done in a way to maximize their potential and instill a Winning mentality....

 

So I think if those traits there are several that CGM is missing in.... Starting with evaluation.... Then development.... And most of all.... adaptability

Saban’s process and attention to detail reminds me a lot of Standard Operating Procedures in the military.   Extremely meticulous in detail, no tolerance for deviation, and regularly reviewed and updated.   

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1 hour ago, ChltteTiger said:

Of course some on here (no names) think the "process" is a myth and the real process is the cash enducements by the REC for exceptional play etc. But the evidence for that theory is limited to a few since-deleted twitter posts by stupid players. Certainly no hard-digging journalists are out there getting at the truth,

I fully endorse the REC, Emmert theory.  In this day of football parity there's nobody THAT good without magical wizards, unicorns and US Marines protection.

Sure he's a good coach.  But what he's "accomplished" is ridiculous.  (Not in a good way.)

And yes, I've even posted the investigation info and Twitter posts on other threads.  If I can find them, the NCAA bloodhounds could surely find them.

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1 minute ago, AUsince72 said:

I fully endorse the REC, Emmert theory.  In this day of football parity there's nobody THAT good without magical wizards, unicorns and US Marines protection.

Sure he's a good coach.  But what he's "accomplished" is ridiculous.  (Not in a good way.)

And yes, I've even posted the investigation info and Twitter posts on other threads.  If I can find them, the NCAA bloodhounds could surely find them.

Saban has naked pictures of Emmert, bro. 

 

Or *gasp* WORSE!!!!

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2 hours ago, keesler said:

Now 'Loof, you know it's all about the $$/Dodge Chargers/Hot Wheelz/$$/houses/suits/$$/fishing trips/tatoos/drug dealers/$$/all expense paid relocation/beach condo hide-aways/$$/free air travel/'roids/$$/deer antler spray/HGH.  Those are the only things that make those players do their job, know their assignments, become elite route runners, tackle and block effectively, execute the game plan, improve as the season progresses, learn the playbook, focus and pay attention to the details.  

:drippingsarcasm7pa:

 

No, but it's what allows bammer to load up their roster with 5* players who are backed up by 5* players that makes his coaching job easier than everyone else 

Look at their QB's & RB's... They're as big as some teams DLinemen yet run like deer.  Supreme talent overcomes most obstacles.  If AU's OLine was loaded with all 5* players backed up by 5* players, they'd probably be pretty dang good.

Edited by AUsince72
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I remember when Chizk was fired, there were a lot of people posting on this site who were adamant, and I do mean ADAMANT, that AU had to hire Gus Malzahn. No one seemed to care about his "coaching tree." All anyone cared was that his offense won the 2010 national championship. Those of us who supported other candidates were basically pooh-pushed on here because we had to have Gus Malzahn. Now look where we are. Unfortunately, I think the TAMU game, regardless of what happens the rest of the year, has bought him another year (despite the fact that, looking at the stats, TAMU was a far better team that day). 

Like so many of you, I'm frustrated as hell with the program. We've got kids who, for the most part, were highly recruited players out of high school, and yet they seem to be so over-matched on the field. 

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1 hour ago, gctiger said:

Saban’s process and attention to detail reminds me a lot of Standard Operating Procedures in the military.   Extremely meticulous in detail, no tolerance for deviation, and regularly reviewed and updated.   

👍🏼

The recognition that SOP needs to be reviewed, updated, improved, and changed and the willingness to do so is what separates the good from the elite.  The willingness to accept input from other people in the business (college or pro) and implement a different strategy in a constant effort to evolve and stay one step ahead of the rest of the pack is what separates the boys from the men.  It's all a part of experience and maturity in your profession.

Gus has been described as a perfectionist, he focuses on every detail, pours over the smallest concept and works tirelessly.  His ego and stubbornness at this level of college coaching has been his down fall and it's sad that AU is married to a relationship where a divorce will be obscenely costly. :sad2:

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24 minutes ago, AURandy56 said:

I remember when Chizk was fired, there were a lot of people posting on this site who were adamant, and I do mean ADAMANT, that AU had to hire Gus Malzahn. No one seemed to care about his "coaching tree."

While I wasn't ADAMANT, I was okay with the hire, and I disregarded his lack of coaching pedigree. I was wrong to do so and I have learned a tough lesson. 

My knowledge of the sport and business of football continues to grow along with my experience as an Auburn fan and a football fan. I'm often wrong but I usually learn. This is one of those times.

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Just an aside: I think maybe the "bama players are all bought and paid for by the REC" narrative is getting a little out of hand. Yes, they are to a larger degree than most, but like the talent advantage doesn't completely explain the historic winning, cash inducements don't completely explain the talent advantage. saban is, among other things, a stone cold killer of a recruiter. 

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