ChltteTiger

Gus' coaching tree

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12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Just an aside: I think maybe the "bama players are all bought and paid for by the REC" narrative is getting a little out of hand. Yes, they are to a larger degree than most, but like the talent advantage doesn't completely explain the historic winning, cash inducements don't completely explain the talent advantage. saban is, among other things, a stone cold killer of a recruiter. 

I know I'm a tin-foil hat guy but if other P5 conferences had dominant teams who could actually challenge them (outside of Clemson) I would be less skeptical.  But in this day and age where top talent kids will actually go to lesser schools for PT (due to scholly restrictions) it's just very suspicious that one man is THAT much head and shoulders over everybody else to get kids to go to the crap hole of Tuscaloosa AL.  And now that Kirby is using those same skeletons on Emmert to suddenly have thUga recruiting at bammer level giving our OTHER top rival to skyrocket passed Auburn...well it's only getting worse.

I'm usually a pretty reasonable guy, but I just don't buy that saban or now Kirby's success is in any way, shape or form fair and legit.

BUT... that's just me and my opinion.  Everybody else is welcome to theirs. 😊

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27 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

While I wasn't ADAMANT, I was okay with the hire, and I disregarded his lack of coaching pedigree. I was wrong to do so and I have learned a tough lesson. 

My knowledge of the sport and business of football continues to grow along with my experience as an Auburn fan and a football fan. I'm often wrong but I usually learn. This is one of those times.

after a 3 win season  a coach that would get us a solid 7-8 wins a season sounded pretty good.    

Edited by auskip07
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1 hour ago, AURandy56 said:

I remember when Chizk was fired, there were a lot of people posting on this site who were adamant, and I do mean ADAMANT, that AU had to hire Gus Malzahn. No one seemed to care about his "coaching tree." All anyone cared was that his offense won the 2010 national championship. Those of us who supported other candidates were basically pooh-pushed on here because we had to have Gus Malzahn. Now look where we are. Unfortunately, I think the TAMU game, regardless of what happens the rest of the year, has bought him another year (despite the fact that, looking at the stats, TAMU was a far better team that day). 

Like so many of you, I'm frustrated as hell with the program. We've got kids who, for the most part, were highly recruited players out of high school, and yet they seem to be so over-matched on the field. 

 

The most passionate arguments on this board at that time had everything to do with Bobby Petrino.  If I recall correctly, Titan was neck deep in all of them, so he could second that more definitively.  Gus Malzahn had his advocates, but they were hardly steamrolling the discussion over anyone else.  There was definitely not a top-down, comprehensive, Gus or bust campaign going on in coaching search discussion threads.  Gary Patterson was in, and at the top of, a lot of wish lists.

To your point, people did care that his offense was largely responsible for Auburn's first national championship in most posters' adult lifetime, and the first Heisman Trophy win in 25 years.  The offensive improvements in his first year (2009) were noteworthy as well.  That did earn Gus a lot of good faith with the fanbase, and is why the majority reaction was not disappointment when he was hired to replace Gene Chizik.  Personally, I thought his many years coaching high school, combined with great lessons on "what not to do" provided by both Houston Nutt and Gene Chizik would serve him well at Auburn.  I thought his prior experience recruiting the area, and being only one year removed from coaching offensive players on the roster would be a large positive.  Heading into his third season as head coach, and especially during his first, that did appear to be the case.

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5 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

I know I'm a tin-foil hat guy but if other P5 conferences had dominant teams who could actually challenge them (outside of Clemson) I would be less skeptical.  But in this day and age where top talent kids will actually go to lesser schools for PT (due to scholly restrictions) it's just very suspicious that one man is THAT much head and shoulders over everybody else to get kids to go to the crap hole of Tuscaloosa AL.  And now that Kirby is using those same skeletons on Emmert to suddenly have thUga recruiting at bammer level giving our OTHER top rival to skyrocket passed Auburn...well it's only getting worse.

I'm usually a pretty reasonable guy, but I just don't buy that saban or now Kirby's success is in any way, shape or form fair and legit.

BUT... that's just me and my opinion.  Everybody else is welcome to theirs. 😊

No doubt those guys have a lot of wind at their back.

All I'm saying is that you could give almost any coach those same advantages and they still would not succeed at the level that saban has. Not on the recruiting trail and not on the field.

I'm glad you brought up smart, because as you pointed out he is the test case. Really, he should have it even easier than saban. All the same advantages and he's in a much more talent-rich state with no legitimate in-state rival. The SEC East is pathetic compared to the West. (See: LSU curb-stomping uga and then promptly getting curb-stomped by bama.) Yet, saban has never lost a game the way that uga lost to us last year despite navigating the SEC West in its prime as the most dominant division in CFB history. 

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46 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

No doubt those guys have a lot of wind at their back.

All I'm saying is that you could give almost any coach those same advantages and they still would not succeed at the level that saban has. Not on the recruiting trail and not on the field.

I'm glad you brought up smart, because as you pointed out he is the test case. Really, he should have it even easier than saban. All the same advantages and he's in a much more talent-rich state with no legitimate in-state rival. The SEC East is pathetic compared to the West. (See: LSU curb-stomping uga and then promptly getting curb-stomped by bama.) Yet, saban has never lost a game the way that uga lost to us last year despite navigating the SEC West in its prime as the most dominant division in CFB history. 

Exactly my point.  I know some admire it but I'm in the "suspicious" group.  I feel that without the "wind at his back" (Emmert, Shaw, etc) he's no better than he was at LSU.  That's not saying I don't think he's a good coach (he is) but not this magical unicorn of coaches that we'll ever see again.  Even to the point of getting into the playoffs when they don't even win their DIVISION much less their conference.

It's just bizarre to me to see the admiration for this guy on this board, of all boards, but I'm just being petty.  Watching our biggest rivals boat race us with no end in sight, while AU flounders with this overpaid coach who we can't seem to get rid of, has that effect on me.

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4 hours ago, corchjay said:

Saban is a great coach.  The recruiting machine he has built is the difference.  Process or no process, 7 straight number 1 recruiting classes puts you where Bama is.  There are plenty of good X and O coaches... but no one matches Alabama’s talent and until someone does they will be winning most games every year.  I’m just glad to be a fan of a school that has regularly beaten him at LSU and Bama.

I agree.. 

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1 minute ago, AUsince72 said:

Exactly my point.  I know some admire it but I'm in the "suspicious" group.  I feel that without the "wind at his back" (Emmert, Shaw, etc) he's no better than he was at LSU.  That's not saying I don't think he's a good coach (he is) but not this magical unicorn of coaches that we'll ever see again.  Even to the point of getting into the playoffs when they don't even win their DIVISION much less their conference.

It's just bizarre to me to see the admiration for this guy on this board, of all boards, but I'm just being petty.  Watching our biggest rivals boat race us with no end in sight, while AU flounders with this overpaid coach who we can't seem to get rid of, has that effect on me.

I personally wouldn't use the word admiration, but he's damned good at his job. 

As for getting into the playoffs without winning your division, that's what happens when you never lose more than 1 game in a season. (Except when you've already been bounced from national title consideration or lose to the eventual national champion in the playoffs.) (Also, when they get into the playoffs and get whooped like OU did in the 2004 BCSCG, I'll complain. Unfortunately for us, they've shown to be the best overall team in the country each time.)

As for how good he was at LSU... well, obviously, he won a national championship there. He also had 2 10-win seasons back when there were only 11 games in the regular season. In 2004, his last year there, he was 2 plays away from having an 11-win season, with 1 of those losses coming against the best Auburn team ever and another coming on the last play of their bowl game. He was there 5 seasons. Was he a national-title-every-other-year coach down there? No. Would he have won more titles down there if he'd stayed? Not crazy to imagine that he would have. Also, one other thing to remember is that 2003 was LSU's 2nd-ever national championship. It's not like he was handed the keys to a Ferrari. 

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The only time I think of a Gus tree is when I see a dead tree in the forest that has not yet fallen over...but it will.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I personally wouldn't use the word admiration, but he's damned good at his job. 

As for getting into the playoffs without winning your division, that's what happens when you never lose more than 1 game in a season. (Except when you've already been bounced from national title consideration or lose to the eventual national champion in the playoffs.) (Also, when they get into the playoffs and get whooped like OU did in the 2004 BCSCG, I'll complain. Unfortunately for us, they've shown to be the best overall team in the country each time.)

As for how good he was at LSU... well, obviously, he won a national championship there. He also had 2 10-win seasons back when there were only 11 games in the regular season. In 2004, his last year there, he was 2 plays away from having an 11-win season, with 1 of those losses coming against the best Auburn team ever and another coming on the last play of their bowl game. He was there 5 seasons. Was he a national-title-every-other-year coach down there? No. Would he have won more titles down there if he'd stayed? Not crazy to imagine that he would have. Also, one other thing to remember is that 2003 was LSU's 2nd-ever national championship. It's not like he was handed the keys to a Ferrari. 

I don't deny he's a good coach.  But if not for the perfect storm of him joining the REC and then Emmert taking over the NCAA (not to mention Steve "Bammer" Shaw running the SEC Officials Office the last 7 years) I just believe he's another Pete Carroll or Urban Meyer and not in a stratosphere that even makes Bahr look like a regular coach.  I'm just glad other non-Auburn outlets are finally starting to smell the rat too.  

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Just now, AUsince72 said:

I'm just glad other non-Auburn outlets are finally starting to smell the rat too.  

Oh? Do tell! Trust me, I would LOVE to see it all come crashing down over there. 

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2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Oh? Do tell! Trust me, I would LOVE to see it all come crashing down over there. 

It won't but in the rivals section are the stories of (though he's a chucklehead himself) James Carville campaigning against Bammer favoritism in the SEC office but even Randy Cross & Brian Jones on a CBS Sports roundtable flat out said bammer is getting preferential treatment by the SEC too.  There's a clip of it in one of those threads.  So, maybe Bama fatigue is FINALLY starting to happen.

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13 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

It won't but in the rivals section are the stories of (though he's a chucklehead himself) James Carville campaigning against Bammer favoritism in the SEC office but even Randy Cross & Brian Jones on a CBS Sports roundtable flat out said bammer is getting preferential treatment by the SEC too.  There's a clip of it in one of those threads.  So, maybe Bama fatigue is FINALLY starting to happen.

It's a start. I'll take it. 

And Carville might play the clown on TV, but he might have some connections if he's serious about it. 

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3 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

It won't but in the rivals section are the stories of (though he's a chucklehead himself) James Carville campaigning against Bammer favoritism in the SEC office but even Randy Cross & Brian Jones on a CBS Sports roundtable flat out said bammer is getting preferential treatment by the SEC too.  There's a clip of it in one of those threads.  So, maybe Bama fatigue is FINALLY starting to happen.

This is the one that stood out to me big time. Cause CBS is the SEC station and usually defends the SEC. We all remember the SECG where over half the game was lobbying for Alabama to be in. Wonder if it is starting to hurt their ratings.

Even Paul Finebaum is saying that Alabama is taking the oxygen out of college football.

My GF and I went to dinner after the Texas game Saturday and they had the LSU/Alabama game on. After about 10 minutes everyone was like can you just put OU/Texas Tech on every TV and they did.

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4 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

I don't deny he's a good coach.  But if not for the perfect storm of him joining the REC and then Emmert taking over the NCAA (not to mention Steve "Bammer" Shaw running the SEC Officials Office the last 7 years) I just believe he's another Pete Carroll or Urban Meyer and not in a stratosphere that even makes Bahr look like a regular coach.  I'm just glad other non-Auburn outlets are finally starting to smell the rat too.  

What outlets specifically?  want to see what evidence others have uncovered.

In a way I wish this wasn't the case (rampant cheating) because it would leave me seething and I probably don't really need that right now lol.

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34 minutes ago, ChltteTiger said:

What outlets specifically?  want to see what evidence others have uncovered.

In a way I wish this wasn't the case (rampant cheating) because it would leave me seething and I probably don't really need that right now lol.

Look at my post 4 up from this one.

Carville...meh, but it's interesting that 2 CBS Sports guys flat out said bammer is getting special treatment.  One of the threads in the rivals section has a clip from that roundtable.

And even Pawl apparently is bemoaning bammer sucking the life out of the sport.

It ain't much...yet.  But it's gotta start somewhere.

Edited by AUsince72

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23 hours ago, AURandy56 said:

I remember when Chizk was fired, there were a lot of people posting on this site who were adamant, and I do mean ADAMANT, that AU had to hire Gus Malzahn. No one seemed to care about his "coaching tree." All anyone cared was that his offense won the 2010 national championship. Those of us who supported other candidates were basically pooh-pushed on here because we had to have Gus Malzahn. Now look where we are. Unfortunately, I think the TAMU game, regardless of what happens the rest of the year, has bought him another year (despite the fact that, looking at the stats, TAMU was a far better team that day). 

Like so many of you, I'm frustrated as hell with the program. We've got kids who, for the most part, were highly recruited players out of high school, and yet they seem to be so over-matched on the field. 

Yup...but what is not articulated very much is how Gus has changed:

down and dirty:  

in 2010, with arguably a 'generational talent' he dialed up a variety of plays and forced defenses to defend the entire field.   In 2013 and 2014 ( I think), we also were less predictable and the HUNH was causing every opponent huge grief.   Auburn  was seen as innovative and emerging. 

Gus was  an evolving, innovative coach.  Especially compared to Saban who was seeking rule changes to combat the HUNH. Saban was "married to his scheme".

Now, 5 yrs later Gus has evolved into a arrogant coach who has shown us that he is miserable at evaluating talent, does not change his schemes and if left alone, runs an offense that Jordan Rogers can predict from a studio set in Atlanta.  Gus is 100% married to his scheme, has regressed and doesn't even use the HUNH when it creates a competitive advantage.

5-6 yrs ago, I would have bet the farm Saban would have been stuck in the past and Gus would be the innovative coach, but unfortunately I am wrong again.  It is Saban who flipped the script.  

 

Edited by Beaker
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18 minutes ago, Beaker said:

5-6 yrs ago, I would have bet the farm Saban would have been stuck in the past and Gus would be the innovative coach, but unfortunately I am wrong again.  It is Saban who flipped the script.  

For what it's worth, I'm in that boat with you. 

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15 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Look at my post 4 up from this one.

Carville...meh, but it's interesting that 2 CBS Sports guys flat out said bammer is getting special treatment.  One of the threads in the rivals section has a clip from that roundtable.

And even Pawl apparently is bemoaning bammer sucking the life out of the sport.

It ain't much...yet.  But it's gotta start somewhere.

OK yea I saw that after I made my post thanks. I am really more interested in finding a story from a journalist who followed up on the multiple times UAT players have tweeted about cash payments. Apparently no such brave journalist exists.

 

Oh and PF is merely stating the obvious. He does not have original 'revelations' he talks to his sources and decides which narrative sounds best.

Edited by ChltteTiger

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12 minutes ago, ChltteTiger said:

OK yea I saw that after I made my post thanks. I am really more interested in finding a story from a journalist who followed up on the multiple times UAT players have tweeted about cash payments. Apparently no such brave journalist exists.

 

Oh and PF is merely stating the obvious. He does not have original 'revelations' he talks to his sources and decides which narrative sounds best.

You're correct.  The only journalistic investigation was the Yahoo one from a few years ago and Emmert made sure to ignore it.

But, it's been radio silence for years outside of some of us disgruntled AU fans that it's nice to see not only a different, public, outlet openly discussing it but CBS (the home of the SEC) no less.  

It's a start.  Maybe just passing in the wind but at least there's hope for now that somebody might take it and run.

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16 minutes ago, TigerOne said:

Gus's coaching tree is currently a stick in the mud

1e7a4f3d-a8cf-4775-be34-aab98811e131_tex

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On 11/6/2018 at 8:23 PM, oracle79 said:

Put this in another thread somewhere, but apparently it wasn't seen much.

Image result for meme tree with no branches

Gus"coaching tree is like the Bayobab (pretty sure I didn't spell that right.) It looks like a tree upside down. :AUBig:

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