Socialism

[tigerbrotha12 2,362]

It’s a bad thing. I genuinely would like to know from someone on the left why they believe these practices would benefit America. Do not be fooled, you are voting for a step towards socialist policies if you vote blue right now. 

I do not have a condescending tone with this. I want to know what is appealing to this? Socialism has NEVER been something that benefits a country. In fact, it tears down countries it is implemented in. What is the appeal? Can I get you to see it another way? 

[DKW 86 7,419]

6 hours ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

It’s a bad thing. I genuinely would like to know from someone on the left why they believe these practices would benefit America. Do not be fooled, you are voting for a step towards socialist policies if you vote blue right now. 

I do not have a condescending tone with this. I want to know what is appealing to this? Socialism has NEVER been something that benefits a country. In fact, it tears down countries it is implemented in. What is the appeal? Can I get you to see it another way? 

I live in N AL. The "Socialism" of the New Deal brought us TVA, controlled waterways, hydroelectric power, jobs, jobs, and jobs. 
The Socialism of the Social Security is something i hope to add to my retirement income some day.
The Socialism of Medicare is something I hope to use for mine and my wife's healthcare one day.
The Socialism of S-Chip, After School, Before School Meals, Pell Grants, etc, etc, etc has served most of Blue Collar America fine and we could do a lot more. 

I see people I love and care for with just jokes for health insurance. I do not buy all the manipulated-manufactured poll driven "Studies" by highly partisan groups trying to deny that most of the free world has universal coverage. I dont want some low level of Health Care myself, but i am willing to pay extra for my family. But the rest of the US needs this. I deal with kids that are caught in a cycle of poverty, ignorance, and yes sloth. (Kim and I tried to foster a 15 yo child as recently as June. His Mom just could not give up the meal ticket.) I get the bad side. But we cannot turn our backs on the good side and let evil win. I am convinced that we are headed in the right direction. Did you know that violent crime in America is actually been dropping dramatically for 50 years or so? gee, i wonder why? Maybe because we have invested in keeping kids out of crushing poverty more than ever? It hasnt been perfect, but If you want perfect anything, you are going to be disappointed. 

So, to address your misrepresentation: Not all "Socialism" is bad. 

The Castro, Chavez, Stalin, Mao version of strongman totalitarian socialism is indeed bad. Does anyone really think that would really fly in America? I dont. I dont think real thinking people think that way either. So, please, be intellectually a little more rigorous and dont buy into the GROSS GENERALIZATIONALISMS. 

Socialism has benefitted Alabama in a 100,000 ways. but to answer your point, EXTREMIST anything is going to be bad as hell. 

We need and I want Socialism, the good kind. I will be the first to take up a weapon and stand beside you against the bad kind too.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

I don't think you'll find a single person here that is for total socialism, much like you won't find it advocated for among most mainstream Dems.  I largely voted blue this year and completely reject your notion that I'm voting for moving towards socialistic policies.  A big driver of my vote was to put a check on unfettered control by one party.

Now, this country already has several major socialist policies that haven't broken the country, so let's not kid ourselves that we are a bastion of pure anti-socialism.  In fact, if government tried to take those programs away, the electorate would throw a fit.  It should also be pointed out that pure capitalism doesn't work either.  There has to be a happy medium, which I think the country has largely found.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

55 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

I don't think you'll find a single person here that is for total socialism, much like you won't find it advocated for among most mainstream Dems.  I largely voted blue this year and completely reject your notion that I'm voting for moving towards socialistic policies.  A big driver of my vote was to put a check on unfettered control by one party.

Now, this country already has several major socialist policies that haven't broken the country, so let's not kid ourselves that we are a bastion of pure anti-socialism.  In fact, if government tried to take those programs away, the electorate would throw a fit.  It should also be pointed out that pure capitalism doesn't work either.  There has to be a happy medium, which I think the country has largely found.

YOU WANT EVERYONE TO BE AN EMPLOYEE OF THE STATE!!! SAY IT!

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

9 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

YOU WANT EVERYONE TO BE AN EMPLOYEE OF THE STATE!!! SAY IT!

Nah.  I hear Fox News is at full capacity for employment right now

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 hour ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

It’s a bad thing. I genuinely would like to know from someone on the left why they believe these practices would benefit America. Do not be fooled, you are voting for a step towards socialist policies if you vote blue right now. 

I do not have a condescending tone with this. I want to know what is appealing to this? Socialism has NEVER been something that benefits a country. In fact, it tears down countries it is implemented in. What is the appeal? Can I get you to see it another way? 

Can you expound on what you mean by "socialism"? Just so we are all on the same page. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, Brad_ATX said:

Nah.  I hear Fox News is at full capacity for employment right now

Boy, I take no offense to your jabs at Fox News, just don't diss my friend..... nvm

[tigerbrotha12 2,362]

59 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Can you expound on what you mean by "socialism"? Just so we are all on the same page. 

Big government policies. Medicare for all, “Robin Hood” principle of taking from wealthier and giving to less wealthy, wealth redistribution, taking over large corporations etc.

I am a firm believer in charity, but not forced charity. 

[tigerbrotha12 2,362]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I live in N AL. The "Socialism" of the New Deal brought us TVA, controlled waterways, hydroelectric power, jobs, jobs, and jobs. 
The Socialism of the Social Security is something i hope to add to my retirement income some day.
The Socialism of Medicare is something I hope to use for mine and my wife's healthcare one day.
The Socialism of S-Chip, After School, Before School Meals, Pell Grants, etc, etc, etc has served most of Blue Collar America fine and we could do a lot more. 

I see people I love and care for with just jokes for health insurance. I do not buy all the manipulated-manufactured poll driven "Studies" by highly partisan groups trying to deny that most of the free world has universal coverage. I dont want some low level of Health Care myself, but i am willing to pay extra for my family. But the rest of the US needs this. I deal with kids that are caught in a cycle of poverty, ignorance, and yes sloth. (Kim and I tried to foster a 15 yo child as recently as June. His Mom just could not give up the meal ticket.) I get the bad side. But we cannot turn our backs on the good side and let evil win. I am convinced that we are headed in the right direction. Did you know that violent crime in America is actually been dropping dramatically for 50 years or so? gee, i wonder why? Maybe because we have invested in keeping kids out of crushing poverty more than ever? It hasnt been perfect, but If you want perfect anything, you are going to be disappointed. 

So, to address your misrepresentation: Not all "Socialism" is bad. 

The Castro, Chavez, Stalin, Mao version of strongman totalitarian socialism is indeed bad. Does anyone really think that would really fly in America? I dont. I dont think real thinking people think that way either. So, please, be intellectually a little more rigorous and dont buy into the GROSS GENERATIONALISMS. 

Socialism has benefitted Alabama in a 100,000 ways. but to answer your point, EXTREMIST anything is going to be bad as hell. 

We need and I want Socialism, the good kind. I will be the first to take up a weapon and stand beside you against the bad kind too.

I want to be careful with my language because I respect your opinion and I am glad to hear that side, but your points seem to be very based upon emotional appeal. I think most people are for eliminating the evil in the world, but evil is not merely “not caring enough about people” or “being cold hearted towards the less fortunate.” Evil is forcing you to have something taken from you that you have earned. Evil is forcing you to do something in a society where inalienable rights have been granted to you. 

I am a huge believer in charity and giving to the less fortunate, but I don’t want to be regulated and told that I HAVE to do it by anyone other than God. That should be a choice for people. The difference between charity and redistribution of wealth is theft. Redistribution of wealth is theft by the government against you. Charity is you choosing to give based on religious reasons, morality, or some other divine calling.

I want to help people, but I don’t want a government holding a gun to my head in order to make me do it.

[DKW 86 7,419]

3 hours ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

I want to be careful with my language because I respect your opinion and I am glad to hear that side, but your points seem to be very based upon emotional appeal. I think most people are for eliminating the evil in the world, but evil is not merely “not caring enough about people” or “being cold hearted towards the less fortunate.” Evil is forcing you to have something taken from you that you have earned. Evil is forcing you to do something in a society where inalienable rights have been granted to you. 

I am a huge believer in charity and giving to the less fortunate, but I don’t want to be regulated and told that I HAVE to do it by anyone other than God. That should be a choice for people. The difference between charity and redistribution of wealth is theft. Redistribution of wealth is theft by the government against you. Charity is you choosing to give based on religious reasons, morality, or some other divine calling.

I want to help people, but I don’t want a government holding a gun to my head in order to make me do it.

I attend a church of about 3500. We are by far more generous than most churches locally, even at that, we likely have only 10% or so that actually give at the level that would be required to make real change in the world. So, even with those prone to give generously, they probably wont unless shamed or compelled to do so. I hear hat you are saying, very clearly. And up until about 2010 or so agreed with it. I no longer do, however. 

[PUB78 1,358]

5 hours ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

I want to be careful with my language because I respect your opinion and I am glad to hear that side, but your points seem to be very based upon emotional appeal. I think most people are for eliminating the evil in the world, but evil is not merely “not caring enough about people” or “being cold hearted towards the less fortunate.” Evil is forcing you to have something taken from you that you have earned. Evil is forcing you to do something in a society where inalienable rights have been granted to you. 

I am a huge believer in charity and giving to the less fortunate, but I don’t want to be regulated and told that I HAVE to do it by anyone other than God. That should be a choice for people. The difference between charity and redistribution of wealth is theft. Redistribution of wealth is theft by the government against you. Charity is you choosing to give based on religious reasons, morality, or some other divine calling.

I want to help people, but I don’t want a government holding a gun to my head in order to make me do it.

Outstanding remarks!

[alexava 6,973]

We are all socialists. We don’t all understand it, even less admit it. 

[tigerbrotha12 2,362]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I attend a church of about 3500. We are by far more generous than most churches locally, even at that, we likely have only 10% or so that actually give at the level that would be required to make real change in the world. So, even with those prone to give generously, they probably wont unless shamed or compelled to do so. I hear hat you are saying, very clearly. And up until about 2010 or so agreed with it. I no longer do, however. 

I don’t think we are going to find common ground if that is the case. I believe the government has no right to tell me I should give my money to other people. God has that authority and I will answer to him in terms of how to give. I simply disagree with the premise that other people have a right to what I earn.

[DKW 86 7,419]

1 hour ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

I don’t think we are going to find common ground if that is the case. I believe the government has no right to tell me I should give my money to other people. God has that authority and I will answer to him in terms of how to give. I simply disagree with the premise that other people have a right to what I earn.

My point is that a lot of people that identify as being even nominally Christian, are not standing up to the plate. In essence, they have abandoned the work and support that they are admonished to do. In that light, I feel as imperfect as the State is, it had to step in and do the work that the Church was not doing.

[alexava 6,973]

“Take from the well, replenish the well” King Ezekiel”. 

 

[Grumps 3,704]

On 11/6/2018 at 10:28 PM, alexava said:

We are all socialists. We don’t all understand it, even less admit it. 

Are we all also nationalists as well?

[alexava 6,973]

https://www.google.com/search?q=nationalism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

 

 

possibly so grumps 

[caleb1633 1,418]

Socialism is like trickle down economics in the sense that they both look good on paper, but neither take into account human nature. No one is going to want to be paid similarly to someone who works a less skilled job, and wealthy businessmen will hord money because that's human nature. Like someone on here said, it's a balance. There's no perfect solution and it certainly isn't found in the extreme left or extreme right. If we can balance the provision that comes with socialist policies with the competition that comes with capitalist policies, then we'd have a system that runs like a well oiled machine.

[DKW 86 7,419]

On 11/6/2018 at 7:00 PM, DKW 86 said:

I attend a church of about 3500. We are by far more generous than most churches locally, even at that, we likely have only 10% or so that actually give at the level that would be required to make real change in the world. So, even with those prone to give generously, they probably wont unless shamed or compelled to do so. I hear hat you are saying, very clearly. And up until about 2010 or so agreed with it. I no longer do, however. 

1

I just got to see the numbers for my church recently. We are actually giving at that level to the tune of about 20% of the Church members.

It is awesome to be a part of such a community of believers. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

On 11/6/2018 at 12:08 PM, tigerbrotha12 said:

It’s a bad thing. I genuinely would like to know from someone on the left why they believe these practices would benefit America. Do not be fooled, you are voting for a step towards socialist policies if you vote blue right now. 

I do not have a condescending tone with this. I want to know what is appealing to this? Socialism has NEVER been something that benefits a country. In fact, it tears down countries it is implemented in. What is the appeal? Can I get you to see it another way? 

Socialism is wonderful until the people paying for it run out of money----sarcastic tone

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

I suppose those of you who feel socialism is bad are against socialist things such as garbage collection, police, fire departments, public parks, public schools, social security, public highways, public transportation, postal services, prisons, public health, the CDC, the FBI, FEMA, the court system and public beaches. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

56 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

I suppose those of you who feel socialism is bad are against socialist things such as garbage collection, police, fire departments, public parks, public schools, social security, public highways, public transportation, postal services, prisons, public health, the CDC, the FBI, FEMA, the court system and public beaches. 

This is what happens when one doesn't define the terminology 

BTW, private beaches are much better

[johnnyAU 3,630]

Those who want socialized health care should first head to Canada and ask the citizens how they really feel about it. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

8 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

This is what happens when one doesn't define the terminology 

BTW, private beaches are much better

No this is what happens when people repeat right wing rhetoric used to scare a voting base too gullible to know they use socialism on a daily basis. 🙄

Now, when are we going to this private beach? That was an invite, correct? 😉

[alexava 6,973]

On 11/20/2018 at 6:45 PM, johnnyAU said:

Those who want socialized health care should first head to Canada and ask the citizens how they really feel about it. 

I know some  Canadians who love it compared to any system we have or had.