Caravan!

[aubiefifty 16,660]

On 11/9/2018 at 8:54 PM, GiveEmElle said:

You wouldn’t believe us if we did since the GOP denies climate change. 

elle if i was younger and you smoked pot i would so be hitting on ya. smart women give me chills.

 

AND for you haters this is just meant light hearted and more of a compliment. if i was dead serious i would be burning up private messenger. waves

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

43 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I love this use of the term "illegal immigrant."  They haven't even reached the border.  How are they "illegal?"  And if they present themselves for asylum, as required by US asylum law, how would they then be illegal?

Don't be bringing logic up in here!

[AU64 10,122]

2 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Don't be bringing logic up in here!

You mean why they did not seek asylum in their home country which would have been pretty easy perhaps...instead of they caravan across Mexico risking the lives of their children ?   What's logical about that trip?   

[homersapien 11,346]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/11/08/republicans-campaign-promises-are-already-vanishing-into-thin-air/?utm_term=.a9ed67ede5f1

Republicans’ campaign promises are already vanishing into thin air

............What about the other promise, to protect us from the terrifying invasion of asylum seekers from the south? I have some good news there too: You and your family will not be killed by the caravan. Thanks, Republicans!

Of course, the reason is that the caravan was never a threat in the first place. It wasn’t full of gang members and terrorists, and as previous caravans had, its numbers will diminish on the hundreds of miles its participants still have to walk as some people turn back or decide to stay in Mexico. When those who remain reach the border, they’ll present themselves to American officials and request asylum. Those requests will be evaluated in a process our government conducts every day; some claims will be successful, and others won’t.

What we do know is that now that the election is over, Republicans will stop talking about it. What two days ago was a terrifying threat to the life of every Fox News viewer will be quickly forgotten. As for President Trump’s campaign gimmick of sending 5,200 troops to the border to protect against the onrushing horde, the Pentagon has already dropped the self-parodying name for the mission (it was called “Operation Faithful Patriot,” because I guess “Operation Trumpmerica Star Spangled Eagleflag” would have been a bit much). Don’t be surprised if in the coming weeks, the troops are quietly sent back to their regular duties.

 

 

[TitanTiger 20,463]

3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

You mean why they did not seek asylum in their home country which would have been pretty easy perhaps...instead of they caravan across Mexico risking the lives of their children ?   What's logical about that trip?   

Because that is not how US asylum law works.  The very first step in the asylum process, under US law, is to actually *be* in the United States:

Quote

To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States.

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states

There is no mechanism by which they would apply for asylum in their home country.

[homersapien 11,346]

4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

You mean why they did not seek asylum in their home country which would have been pretty easy perhaps...instead of they caravan across Mexico risking the lives of their children ?   What's logical about that trip?   

You obviously have no idea of what you speak.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/reports/2018/06/01/451474/still-refugees-people-continue-flee-violence-latin-american-countries/

https://www.npr.org/2018/05/02/607726810/in-tijuana-migrants-seeking-asylum-in-the-u-s-tell-harrowing-stories-of-crisis

http://time.com/5318718/central-american-refugees-crisis/

https://reliefweb.int/report/united-states-america/fact-sheet-us-immigration-and-central-american-asylum-seekers

[AU64 10,122]

10 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Because that is not how US asylum law works.  The very first step in the asylum process, under US law, is to actually *be* in the United States:

There is no mechanism by which they would apply for asylum in their home country.

 

 

So does the law encourage people to come here illegally and then seek asylum after they have been caught?   as opposed to refugees perhaps? 

 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

12 minutes ago, AU64 said:

 

 

So does the law encourage people to come here illegally and then seek asylum after they have been caught?   as opposed to refugees perhaps? 

 

You can apply for asylum at the border.  They aren't entering illegally at that point.  Once applied for, the immigrants are held at a border facility while their request for asylum is reviewed.

[AU64 10,122]

15 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

You can apply for asylum at the border.  They aren't entering illegally at that point.  Once applied for, the immigrants are held at a border facility while their request for asylum is reviewed.

Holding people at the border.....that's a situation that will be political dynamite.....will almost certainly be portrayed as "concentration camps" raising up images of Nazi Germany.  JMO but gotta be a better way to do this.  ….caravan is probably just a "test case" to see how the US handles it.  If these folks get in pretty easily, we can probably expect to see a  mass migration  from Latin America in the years to come. 

[TitanTiger 20,463]

29 minutes ago, AU64 said:

So does the law encourage people to come here illegally and then seek asylum after they have been caught?   as opposed to refugees perhaps? 

I don't know that it does because my understanding is being caught illegally already here hurts your application for asylum.  The best way to gain asylum status is to come to the US and apply for asylum upon arrival.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Holding people at the border.....that's a situation that will be political dynamite.....will almost certainly be portrayed as "concentration camps" raising up images of Nazi Germany.  JMO but gotta be a better way to do this.  ….caravan is probably just a "test case" to see how the US handles it.  If these folks get in pretty easily, we can probably expect to see a  mass migration  from Latin America in the years to come. 

That's extreme.  There's a difference between detaining people who are looking to enter your country legally and doing so in a safe, sanitary environment vs rounding people up and murdering them.

[AU64 10,122]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

I don't know that it does because my understanding is being caught illegally already here hurts your application for asylum.  The best way to gain asylum status is to come to the US and apply for asylum upon arrival.

I think that works for individual cases...but if 5000 show up at the same time, there is no practical way to process them efficiently, check their stories and make some sort of attempt to validate their paperwork.   So next thing we know, we have big camps full of people waiting for their applications to be reviewed. This may be DT's problem right now but if this process continues it will be every future president's problem ...but every place where these poor new residents end up. 

[TitanTiger 20,463]

Just now, AU64 said:

I think that works for individual cases...but if 5000 show up at the same time, there is no practical way to process them efficiently, check their stories and make some sort of attempt to validate their paperwork.   So next thing we know, we have big camps full of people waiting for their applications to be reviewed. This may be DT's problem right now but if this process continues it will be every future president's problem ...but every place where these poor new residents end up. 

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but nonetheless they are coming and using terms like "illegal" or "illegal immigrants" is an attempt to paint it as something it is not.

[AU64 10,122]

Just now, Brad_ATX said:

That's extreme.  There's a difference between detaining people who are looking to enter your country legally and doing so in a safe, sanitary environment vs rounding people up and murdering them.

I know that...but just watch how those early pictures of "children in cages" was promoted.   Political media has no difficulty stretching an issue …. and the truth ….to accomplish an agenda objective. 

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but nonetheless they are coming and using terms like "illegal" or "illegal immigrants" is an attempt to paint it as something it is not.

OK...a technicality....as is the approach being used in lieu of them seeking legal access to the US.   Using political pressure to get access to the US.  

Would be nice to have some confidence that these people would and could be self-supporting when they get here …But looking at caravan pictures that mostly show women and children .....pretty much tells me that they will be living on social service benefits when/if they get accepted. 

[homersapien 11,346]

I don't understand why there isn't more emphasis is trying to address the issues at the source.

While I understand our history and fallacies of nation-building, it seems like we could do a lot more in helping the governments in El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Guatemala in establishing rule of law. 

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/central-americas-violent-northern-triangle

 

[TitanTiger 20,463]

2 minutes ago, AU64 said:

OK...a technicality....as is the approach being used in lieu of them seeking legal access to the US.   Using political pressure to get access to the US.  

No, it isn't a technicality and the approach being used isn't "in lieu of them seeking legal access", it *is* them seeking legal access.  Just because it's being done in a large group doesn't mean the legal asylum process is being circumvented.

 

 

[Grumps 3,693]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I love this use of the term "illegal immigrant."  They haven't even reached the border.  How are they "illegal?"  And if they present themselves for asylum, as required by US asylum law, how would they then be illegal?

It is my understanding that most of the members of the caravan entered Mexico illegally from Honduras and Guatemala and El Salvador. That makes them seem illegal to me. I think that it is silly to believe that most of the members of the caravan legitimately consider themselves as asylum seekers, but I may be wrong about that also.

I personally wish that both sides of congress would work to fix the parts of our immigration law that EVERYONE thinks are broken.

[TitanTiger 20,463]

10 minutes ago, Grumps said:

It is my understanding that most of the members of the caravan entered Mexico illegally from Honduras and Guatemala and El Salvador. That makes them seem illegal to me. I think that it is silly to believe that most of the members of the caravan legitimately consider themselves as asylum seekers, but I may be wrong about that also.

I personally wish that both sides of congress would work to fix the parts of our immigration law that EVERYONE thinks are broken.

The only "illegal" that matters in this situation is their legality as it pertains to the US.  Neither of us are Mexican, nor have any allegiance to Mexico.

[HVAU 673]

5 hours ago, AU64 said:

there is no practical way to process them efficiently, check their stories and make some sort of attempt to validate their paperwork

Of course there is. You assign them a case number and manager, obtain destination information, give out a hearing date and let them enter the country.  Statistics on asylum seekers indicate that their failure to appear rate is quite low.

"According to Syracuse University’s Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC), as of December 2017, 97 percent of represented mothers whose cases initiated in fiscal year (FY) 2014 were in compliance with their immigration court hearing obligations three years later.

Similarly, 98 percent of children in immigration proceedings whose cases initiated in 2014 and who had obtained counsel were in full compliance with their court appearance obligations as of December 2017."

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/immigration-court-appearance-rates-0

[TitanTiger 20,463]

2 hours ago, HVAU said:

Of course there is. You assign them a case number and manager, obtain destination information, give out a hearing date and let them enter the country.  Statistics on asylum seekers indicate that their failure to appear rate is quite low.

"According to Syracuse University’s Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC), as of December 2017, 97 percent of represented mothers whose cases initiated in fiscal year (FY) 2014 were in compliance with their immigration court hearing obligations three years later.

Similarly, 98 percent of children in immigration proceedings whose cases initiated in 2014 and who had obtained counsel were in full compliance with their court appearance obligations as of December 2017."

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/immigration-court-appearance-rates-0

This does not align with the narrative given to us by Fox and their acolytes.  Must be fake news.

[NolaAuTiger 3,294]

On 11/13/2018 at 6:33 PM, HVAU said:

Of course there is. You assign them a case number and manager, obtain destination information, give out a hearing date and let them enter the country.  Statistics on asylum seekers indicate that their failure to appear rate is quite low.

Yeah, not that simple unfortunately. Our asylum process is not built to process this many applications all at once. Under "normal" circumstances, it can take someone a month to present themselves at the front of the line at the southern border. 

Fail to appear where? You're not automatically placed into removal proceedings, so I am not sure what you mean by "you assign them a case number and manager" and they are given out "a hearing date." If you are, a judge will usually grant an extension at your master calendar hearing until adjudication of your application. Moreover, your master calendar can be scheduled such that your application might already be adjudicated before the hearing date. They are assigned an A number, eventually get a biometrics notice, and IF your application is processed (which can sometimes take 2 years or 2 months or 2 weeks), then you receive an interview notice. After that, you submit a supplemental filing not shorter than a week before the interview. Submitting the actual application (which happens before the supplemental filing) can be an extremely arduous task, because it not only includes an I-589, but a skeletal filing including the required evidence for the application. If every I is not crossed, and every T not dotted, USCIS will not accept the application in the first place. Trust me, it's a very complex task.  

[NolaAuTiger 3,294]

23 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

This does not align with the narrative given to us by Fox and their acolytes.  Must be fake news.

Cute line, but unfortunately joke is on you! 

[HVAU 673]

1 hour ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Yeah, not that simple unfortunately. Our asylum process is not built to process this many applications all at once. Under "normal" circumstances, it can take someone a month to present themselves at the front of the line at the southern border. 

Fail to appear where? You're not automatically placed into removal proceedings, so I am not sure what you mean by "you assign them a case number and manager" and they are given out "a hearing date." If you are, a judge will usually grant an extension at your master calendar hearing until adjudication of your application. Moreover, your master calendar can be scheduled such that your application might already be adjudicated before the hearing date. They are assigned an A number, eventually get a biometrics notice, and IF your application is processed (which can sometimes take 2 years or 2 months or 2 weeks), then you receive an interview notice. After that, you submit a supplemental filing not shorter than a week before the interview. Submitting the actual application (which happens before the supplemental filing) can be an extremely arduous task, because it not only includes an I-589, but a skeletal filing including the required evidence for the application. If every I is not crossed, and every T not dotted, USCIS will not accept the application in the first place. Trust me, it's a very complex task.  

You're much more in tune with the legal paperwork required there, and I believe I've read that you have helped out with immigration legal work before.  Kudos on that.

So, my question is, do the pitfalls in the process  more from lack of legal personnel, difficulty in verification of refugees background, other things I'm not considering?

What resources would be necessary to make the process more efficient?

What laws need to change?

Were these issues addressed in the "gang of eight" bill in 2013 that Speaker Boehner neglected to bring to the floor thereby killing it?

Will CGM be our coach two years from now?

I want answers.

 

[HVAU 673]

Also...

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Because I haven't seen it posted yet.