Could Gus be a good CEO coach?

[McLoofus 35,182]

16 hours ago, IronMan70 said:

What we need is a true HC. Can Gus make that transition ? I use to think so but I'm not so sure anymore. 

I used to think so but now I'm positive he can't. And besides, how much are head coaching duties even taking away from his offensive focus? He doesn't do any of the public appearance/glad handing stuff that most coaches do. He's not working with the defense much, if at all. I suppose he puts a lot into recruiting, but you'd think he'd be doing that as an OC, too. 

The question to me is, can he even make the transition from head coach back to OC?

 

[Tiger 8,818]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

The question to me is, can he even make the transition from head coach back to OC?

 

Not until he spends a year away from the game. He has to catch up on everything that's left him behind since he was hired as HC.

He has been hitting "Remind Me Later" for 5 years when his playbook asks "Ready to install updates?" 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, Tiger said:

He has been hitting "Remind Me Later" for 5 years when his playbook asks "Ready to install updates" 

I already hit the Love reaction but dude, this is amazing. 

[AU64 10,122]

In answer to the OP...I say "no".   Gus never worked for any length of time for a HC who could be considered as a mentor and I'm not sure he is necessarily HC material from a leadership or personality standpoint...certainly not the type who could be a CEO and just let others make all the game related decisions.    

I'm for giving him next year and make him the HC and OC....run the offense totally with input from wherever but not what we have now where Chip calls the good plays and Gus calls the dumb ones.      Need to remove that confusion and put him 100% in charge of the offense....and get a good young QB coach to work with whoever we have there next year.    I don't know about Chip...but IMO it would be good for him and for AU for him to move along.  

Kirby for example has a number of years working for a top HC and learned quite a bit about building or running a program......I'm not sure Gus ever had that kind of exposure in his jumping around from one school to the next for a few years at a time and probably still doe not have much in the way of HC skills. 

[I_M4_AU 7,772]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

 The question to me is, can he even make the transition from head coach back to OC?

 

I don’t remember who it was, but somebody floated the idea of “reassigning” Gus to another position. It would be brilliant in that Gus could be reassigned to an Analyst. The man would be the highest paid analyst in the history of analysts.  Get a new HC and that HC won’t have to listen to Gus and Gus will not have anything to do with coaching. 

Gus’ ego couldn’t take it and Auburn could broker a deal.  This all would not be public, but behind the scenes.  It could work.

[keesler 5,924]

I'm not sure what "one more year" will do to make Auburn football better?

It would be delaying the inevitable, it would prolong the "re-build" process for another year while dividing the fan base even more.  Recruiting will suffer the worst because CGM's status will still be hanging by a weak thread.  How will Gus & his staff sell Auburn and the future of this program?  How will they sell parents and promise them the AU staff will be in place to watch over and protect their 4-5* recruit?  It would be nothing more than lip service bordering on lies on the recruiting trail.  Gus & Co are no longer a commodity, a sure thing - there's uncertainty at ever corner right now.

[Tiger 8,818]

6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I don’t remember who it was, but somebody floated the idea of “reassigning” Gus to another position. It would be brilliant in that Gus could be reassigned to an Analyst. The man would be the highest paid analyst in the history of analysts.  Get a new HC and that HC won’t have to listen to Gus and Gus will not have anything to do with coaching. 

Gus’ ego couldn’t take it and Auburn could broker a deal.  This all would not be public, but behind the scenes.  It could work.

With the faction of people claiming "bad optics" as a reason for not firing him I think scenario is the one time where bad optics would actually come into play. This would actually make us look sleezy as hell and make us a significantly less attractive place to coach at than it is currently. We would effectively be trying to fire him, without firing him to weasel our way into not paying his full buyout that both parties agreed to and instead try to make him as miserable as possible all while his agent, being the big fish of college agents, would tell every single one of his clients to steer clear of anything related to AU. Then the word would spread to not just Sexton's clients but through the entire coaching world. I don't see this as being anything other than a disaster for AU whether it be publicly or if somehow kept private.

[bigbird 60,368]

18 hours ago, Tiger said:

YES. Exactly! It has nothing to do with how good of a play caller they are because a HC doesn't have the cold, hard time to put into preparing a side of the ball to the level that they could when they were a coordinator. It's a significantly more hands off job than being a OC or DC

One reason I like Aranda. He is one of the most well prepared coaches I've seen.

[alexava 6,973]

2 hours ago, AURealist said:

That was then.  This is now.

For a while there, Gus was running his own sidelines ZR and getting away with it.  He'd read the defensive set and quickly call in the play.  Opposing defenses eventually caught on.  Despite this, I think Gus is still trying to do the sideline Zone Read, even though it requires the added step of the Chip the Monkey picking a Gus-approved play from the short list - which results in the delay of game penalties.  Smart opposing coaches now disguise their defensive intentions to take away his ability to read the D and even bait him into calling plays they can defend.  At the very least, they can certainly read our personnel and calculate the probabilities on Gus' play calling.

I applaud your loyalty, though.  Looks like it will take you and some others another season to give up your Gustav the Great fantasy and accept the truth.  So maybe it's a good thing he'll be here at least another season to drive the point home.

👌 so it took 5-6-7 ?? Years for opposing defenses to figure him out. Got it. I guess it’ll take him 6-7 years to figure out that they have figured him out. 

09, 10, 13,14,17 Gus had the best or among the top three offenses in the SEC. 16 wasn’t terrible either. The opposition defensive coaches are slow learning bastards. They are also more inconsistent than he is 

[Tiger 8,818]

12 minutes ago, bigbird said:

One reason I like Aranda. He is one of the most well prepared coaches I've seen.

It feels like it's been since the Tubs days that we've looked like a consistently well-prepared and well-coached team. I could get on board with a coach who's strength is preparation.

[I_M4_AU 7,772]

4 minutes ago, Tiger said:

With the faction of people claiming "bad optics" as a reason for not firing him I think scenario is the one time where bad optics would actually come into play. This would actually make us look sleezy as hell and make us a significantly less attractive place to coach at than it is currently. We would effectively be trying to fire him, without firing him to weasel our way into not paying his full buyout that both parties agreed to and instead try to make him as miserable as possible all while his agent, being the big fish of college agents, would tell every single one of his clients to steer clear of anything related to AU. Then the word would spread to not just Sexton's clients but through the entire coaching world. I don't see this as being anything other than a disaster for AU whether it be publicly or if somehow kept private.

Understand the optics part, but the public will only know that Auburn and Gus reached a deal on the buyout.  There would be a lot of speculation, of course, but will die down in time.  A new HC will have to prove himself like in anyother coaching job he may get.  The deal was horrible and this is hard ball.  We’re talking money here, hard feelings will sooth.

[AU64 10,122]

3 minutes ago, Tiger said:

It feels like it's been since the Tubs days that we've looked like a well-prepared and well-coached team. I could get on board with a coach who's strength is preparation.

I think your memory is failing.....

[Tiger 8,818]

2 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I think your memory is failing.....

Woops key word missing: "Consistently"

Edited.

 

In the Gus era we have looked well-prepared and well coached maybe what? 5-6 times in 6 years? The 2 big wins last year, 2014 LSU and a couple others I can't put my finger on at the moment

[gr82be 14,402]

2 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I think your memory is failing.....

I wouldn't say failing memory but some have a selective memory about Tubs. Easy to do with what's going on now.

[Tiger 8,818]

1 minute ago, gr82be said:

I wouldn't say failing memory but some have a selective memory about Tubs. Easy to do with what's going on now.

I guess what I'm saying is Tubs had his teams more consistently prepared than both Gus and Chiz.

But you are right, Tubs dropped the ball at least once a year except for 04. But the play in the Tubs era seemed more stable overall (or at least the run from 04-06) which I attribute to the staff doing a better job preparing the players.

Maybe you're right, these gloomy times are bringing the good Tubs times to the forefront of my memory. I am not one who was trying to hold on to Tubs either, btw but Gus is even warping how I view past coaches now 

[IronMan70 3,277]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I used to think so but now I'm positive he can't. And besides, how much are head coaching duties even taking away from his offensive focus? He doesn't do any of the public appearance/glad handing stuff that most coaches do. He's not working with the defense much, if at all. I suppose he puts a lot into recruiting, but you'd think he'd be doing that as an OC, too. 

The question to me is, can he even make the transition from head coach back to OC?

 

I honestly don't think he could transition back to being an OC again. On the other side of the coin he can't seem to let go of the OC mindset and be the head coach we need. It's as if he is caught in the twilight zone. There are good OCs all across the country that can be hired to run an offense for a HC. He was hired to be a HC and that takes a completely different skill set.   

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I guess what I'm saying is Tubs had his teams more consistently prepared than both Gus and Chiz.

Hard to argue against that.

-Tubs had 9 or more wins in 3 of his first 6 years at Auburn, and that was before we went to 12 games a season. 
-He had 9 or more wins for 4 of his last 6 seasons.
-He had a 3 year run of 13, 9 and 11 wins. 
-That run, his 3-year best at Auburn, began in his sixth year.
-He won 5 games in his first season and 13 in his sixth.
-Tuberville was 5-3 in bowl games. He failed to reach a bowl game in his first and last years.

-Gus has had 9 or more wins twice in his first 6 years.
-His best run of wins by season was 12, 8 and 7.
-That run began in his first year. 
-He won 12 games his first year and is extremely unlikely to win more than 8 in his 6th.
-Gus is 1-4 in bowl games. 

 

[provibe 261]

To answer the question: NO. We need a HC that knows how to win. We don't need a great OC or a great DC to be our HC. We need a HC that knows how to surround himself with great coaches on both sides of the ball and then let them do their job.

[AURealist 2,185]

25 minutes ago, alexava said:

👌 so it took 5-6-7 ?? Years for opposing defenses to figure him out. Got it. I guess it’ll take him 6-7 years to figure out that they have figured him out. 

09, 10, 13,14,17 Gus had the best or among the top three offenses in the SEC. 16 wasn’t terrible either. The opposition defensive coaches are slow learning bastards. They are also more inconsistent than he is 

Didn't take some of them long at all to figure it out.  

Of course, figuring out the methods of The Genius™ is only the first step (and that step's so easy even sportscasters can do it on live tv).  A team must also have the players to stop Gus' offense.  Teams like LSU, uat, and UGA have it pegged and have the athletes to stop it.  (What's Gus' record against them, again?)  Pruitt figured Gus out years ago, so you can now add UT to that group.  Mmw, as Auburn falls down the recruiting ladder and our rivals move up, you're going to see more teams able to stop Gus' Desperation Turtle™ Offense. 

I'm not impressed with high offensive numbers if my team's offense stumbles and loses the important games.  I'm surprised anyone is impressed by them.

I suspect Gus knows he's been figured out.  He doesn't care, though, because he believes all his plays will work if they're properly executed.  I expect Gus to be here next year and for him to continue failing as a coach - largely for this one hard-held belief.  

[alexava 6,973]

35 minutes ago, AURealist said:

Didn't take some of them long at all to figure it out.  

Of course, figuring out the methods of The Genius™ is only the first step (and that step's so easy even sportscasters can do it on live tv).  A team must also have the players to stop Gus' offense.  Teams like LSU, uat, and UGA have it pegged and have the athletes to stop it.  (What's Gus' record against them, again?)  Pruitt figured Gus out years ago, so you can now add UT to that group.  Mmw, as Auburn falls down the recruiting ladder and our rivals move up, you're going to see more teams able to stop Gus' Desperation Turtle™ Offense. 

I'm not impressed with high offensive numbers if my team's offense stumbles and loses the important games.  I'm surprised anyone is impressed by them.

I suspect Gus knows he's been figured out.  He doesn't care, though, because he believes all his plays will work if they're properly executed.  I expect Gus to be here next year and for him to continue failing as a coach - largely for this one hard-held belief.  

Well we have one thing in common. I also expect Gus to be our coach next year. However I hope he gets the offense back on track and think he can. But it all depends on getting some transfer players or freshman phenoms. You seem to be happy being unhappy about it. I won’t try to stop you anymore. 

[AU64 10,122]

51 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

I honestly don't think he could transition back to being an OC again. On the other side of the coin he can't seem to let go of the OC mindset and be the head coach we need. It's as if he is caught in the twilight zone. There are good OCs all across the country that can be hired to run an offense for a HC. He was hired to be a HC and that takes a completely different skill set.   

True but a good number of HCs run their own offenses as OC too...call the plays, the whole works.   Not sure we have helped ourselves by insisting that Gus play it half way.  As noted earlier....unless Greene backtracks, Gus will be here next year....and I'd be happy for him to fully take the offense and get away from the confusion of what seems to be two offensive concepts being merged or whatever......and get a QB who can run what Gus wants to run. ..

I don't think we can take the HC job away and give him just the OC ….under someone else......and don't see any point of trying that since the contact $$$ are gonna apply either way...and we just take on another big salary with great potential for conflict. 

[AURealist 2,185]

Just now, alexava said:

Well we have one thing in common. I also expect Gus to be our coach next year. However I hope he gets the offense back on track and think he can. But it all depends on getting some transfer players or freshman phenoms. You seem to be happy being unhappy about it. I won’t try to stop you anymore. 

We certainly disagree on Gus' ability to get us back on track.  To me, it means we've got to endure yet another wasted season of bad coaching.    I think I'm correct in my assessment.  I don't see anything in that to be happy about.  

[AU64 10,122]

44 minutes ago, provibe said:

To answer the question: NO. We need a HC that knows how to win. We don't need a great OC or a great DC to be our HC. We need a HC that knows how to surround himself with great coaches on both sides of the ball and then let them do their job.

Not wanting to be snarky but just who are these great coaches and where does anyone find them....or keep them.?   

In my view, there is  not a single HC candidate ( "proven" HC at a reasonable level of competition)  who looks like a prospect.  And who controls who the new HC hires since often they bring their friends, guys who have coached with them in the past.   Or take some apparent very successful DC or OC and he has no staff of outstanding coaches and instead goes shopping around for people he has worked with previously and are looking for a better job and salary. 

When a school gets to the point of wanting to hire a new HC....JMO but it is in real trouble and there are slim odds of seeing any significant improvement ...even after a couple years.  If you are a 2-8 team I guess there is mostly no where to go but up ...but for a generally competitive teams....such as AU....you can go up or down perhaps….. Again, JMO but better to try and rescue the current situation if possible …

[selias 2,398]

On 11/12/2018 at 8:35 AM, Mikey said:

Auburn's problem may be that people (the PTB) have been meddling with Gus's offense.

I can't stress enough just how incorrect you are with that statement.

[atl-tiger 655]

No and why would you want him to be a CEO type coach?  He was hired as an "offensive genius".  If we had a head coach that didn't meddle on either side of the ball I'd want somebody that lives for competition, has a history of winning and can inspire his players as well as recruit his ass off.