If Malzahn returns

[ChltteTiger 649]

11 hours ago, doc4aday said:

Who knows what will happen. The last few games our OL looked better and was given JS better protection. The problem is that JS does not have the same game set Cam or Nick had when it comes to speed. Not sure what is going on with JS, but if he had wheels like Cam and Nick, we could very well have 1-3 more wins this season. JS is gun shy and just does not look comfortable in the offense. I know he has gotten pounded several games, but over the past few games, he has gotten better protection. I just would like for us to find a bonafide DT QB of which would likely yield us 2 or more wins for 2019 over our W/L record for 2018. I think our OL will improve enough to give Bryant a chance to give us a 9-3 or better season for 2019. Bo could be a huge factor for 2019 as well.

Gonna be a lot of attrition on the defense side after this season. That might negate any improvement in the offense. Maybe some transfers can be brought in to help on either side of the ball, its just way too early to feel good about 2019. I don't believe a freshman QB is gonna make a big difference in the SEC West.

[Mikey 16,570]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

Please, once again, stay direct. 

I was very direct in answering your question. It's an individual, case by case decision that depends on details that I don't know, you don't know and that reporter doesn't know. That's as direct as it's possible to be.

[DAG 33,964]

Just now, Mikey said:

I was very direct in answering your question. It's an individual, case by case decision that depends on details that I don't know, you don't know and that reporter doesn't know. That's as direct as it's possible to be.

But you see why your hypothesis is flawed, right? He is the fifth string RB, right? Why would you not utilize a redshirt with him? Either because, he is talented and the coaches want him on the field (which negates this idea that he is a lower depth chart guy) or the intention was to redshirt him, but clearly, something change. The idea that the coaches choose to appease a ”5th string running back” due to his attitude really doesn't make sense at all. In fact, it goes against what Gus has done in the past, as talented guys, who are in the doghouse, have not seen the field. Unless you are telling me now players can dictate when to see the field with Gus.

[Mikey 16,570]

12 minutes ago, DAG said:

Why would you not utilize a redshirt with him?

I hate to be so repetitive, but ask the coaches and player this question. We don't know.

[DAG 33,964]

11 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I hate to be so repetitive, but ask the coaches and player this question. We don't know.

I am asking you since you made this assumption and called out posters for being frustrated. If you are going to say something like that, I would hope you could at the very least be able to handle such questioning of your hypothesis and back why YOU feel this way.

I believe he was supposed to be redshirted but clearly, something went wrong. Otherwise, if he is going to play this year, why not utilize him more? They basically played him in minimalist roles, which pretty much was a wasted year. That is why fans were frustrated IMO. I think the fact that you keep referring back to the coaching staff when you usually have such a strong opinion on such matters speaks volume. I think, even you understand, this situation doesn't make much sense 

[selias 2,398]

13 hours ago, doc4aday said:

Gus offense has worked at its best with a DT/QB. Look no further than Cam Newton & Nick Marshall. both were involved in National Championship games. We have had moderate success with non DT QBs, but no national championship implications in the equation. From his days coaching HS football in Arkansas, DT/QBs have yielded optimal success in Gus' scheme.

Get Kelly Bryant for 2019 and you will see a huge uptick in our offense. Gus biggest problem has been trying to put square pegs in round holes with trying to put a pocket passer type of QB in his system. Yes, opposition has gotten a bit wiser to the mechanics of Gus offense, but put a high caliber DT/QB in his system and noticeable positive changes will take place in our offense. Trust me on this one young grasshopper! (lol)

I'm sorry, I still think that's absurd. You're essentially saying Gussy needs freakish athletes at QB in order to be successful. Do you not see the problem there?

[Auburn Kev 1,653]

13 hours ago, doc4aday said:

 From his days coaching HS football in Arkansas, DT/QBs have yielded optimal success in Gus' scheme.

 

Malzahn found his best success in high school with the no-huddle, hurry up passing attack. His best HS QBs were

Josh Floyd (now HC at Hewitt-Trussville)

Quote

Josh Floyd played quarterback for Malzahn at Shiloh Christian High School from 1996-1998. 

According to Brandon Marcello of AL.com, Floyd “broke state and national passing records during his three years as a starter, finishing with…66 passing touchdowns in 1998 while throwing for 5,221 yards and rushing for 657.”

Rhett Lashlee 

Quote

Like Floyd, Rhett Lashlee also played quarterback under Malzahn at Shiloh. 

Lashlee posted 40 wins as the starter at Shiloh (a state record), won two state titles and was named the 2001 AP Arkansas Player of the Year. He finished his high school career with 171 touchdown passes and 13,201 passing yards.

Mitch Mustain

Quote

Mitch Mustain played quarterback for Malzahn at Springdale High School in Arkansas where he started in 2004 and 2005.

As a senior in ‘05, Mustain went 190-of-270 (70.4%) for 3,817 yards, 47 touchdowns and six interceptions. He tacked on seven touchdowns and 141 yards as a rusher.

Springdale went 14-0 and won the Arkansas 5-A State Championship that season, and Mustain was named the 2005 Gatorade, USA Today and Parade Magazine National Player of the Year.

No one would consider any of those three dual-threat qbs.

My source for this info is the following article from 2014 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1920804-gus-malzahns-incredibly-impressive-quarterback-tree#slide3

[DAG 33,964]

2 hours ago, Auburn Kev said:

Malzahn found his best success in high school with the no-huddle, hurry up passing attack. His best HS QBs were

Josh Floyd (now HC at Hewitt-Trussville)

Rhett Lashlee 

Mitch Mustain

No one would consider any of those three dual-threat qbs.

My source for this info is the following article from 2014 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1920804-gus-malzahns-incredibly-impressive-quarterback-tree#slide3

Yep he didn’t utilize a true DT QB until cam came along and then there was Nick. After this, it seems like what he actually wanted to do became unclear.

[oracle79 3,569]

7 hours ago, Mikey said:

I was very direct in answering your question. It's an individual, case by case decision that depends on details that I don't know, you don't know and that reporter doesn't know. That's as direct as it's possible to be.

[AU64 10,122]

4 hours ago, DAG said:

Yep he didn’t utilize a true DT QB until cam came along and then there was Nick. After this, it seems like what he actually wanted to do became unclear.

I think that's so....if I recall, the guys  he had at Tulsa were not very DT either....better than JS but not Cam or Nick style QBs...and they churned up a lot of offense there too.  

Not sure he needs a true DT like Watson at Clemson for example (or Nick) , but he does need a QB who can get away from a rush and does not dump the ball at the first indication that a DE or LB might be getting through. Well every coach needs that I guess. .  

[doc4aday 1,887]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:54 AM, selias said:

I'm sorry, I still think that's absurd. You're essentially saying Gussy needs freakish athletes at QB in order to be successful. Do you not see the problem there?

There is really no problem here, but a possible solution to fix a problem or make it a good bit better. To make his offense work at an optimal level, he needs a QB who can run fast, throw accurate, and make good decision in the framework of how Gus offense should work. I am no coach but did play the game from age 9-17 and finished my senior season as a DB & fullback in a wishbone offense on a high school team in Western NC. We went 9-1 and went 2 games deep in the playoffs. That offense was a run heavy offense and a pocket passer would have been a total disaster in that offense. A HUNH run option offense needs a QB who can run and not waste away in the pocket hoping a receiver will run free to throw to.

I would bet good money if we get Freeze as our new OC and sign KElly Bryant, you will see an offense somewhat closer to what you saw in 2013 and most of 2014. A DT QB is a round peg in a round hole when it comes to running a Gus style offense. I am not saying all of our offensive woes will be fixed with Bryant, but it would look a lot better than the product on the field this season.  I guess we can just agree to disagree on this one my friend!

During the game yesterday, one of the announcers made a point by saying that Gus needs a true DT/QB to make his offense click. I have been perplexed with Gus since Marshall's time here by not having a true DT/QB. I think Gus thinks his offense can work with any QB he sticks back there. It just has not worked that way for the most. I do understand where you are coming from though!

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

I think part of the problem is that Gus found success with the read option and the RPO, and you continue to do without the right personnel then you lose the element of surprise. Malzahn's offense used to be that you run 5 or 6 different plays off the same formation. And that was even back when he had a passing QB, but the wholesale personnel changes and package plays have done nothing to help our pre-existing deficiencies.

[ToomersStreet 795]

Thank God we have an awesome basketball coach. 

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Here we go again. Depends on what happens next week and in a bowl game, Gus Malzahn is facing another 7 to 8 season. In his 6 years at Auburn, he's had (2) 8-5 seasons and (1) 7-6 season. If you have records like those, are they really worth 7 years and 49 million?

[corchjay 5,311]

11 minutes ago, auburn4ever said:

Here we go again. Depends on what happens next week and in a bowl game, Gus Malzahn is facing another 7 to 8 season. In his 6 years at Auburn, he's had (2) 8-5 seasons and (1) 7-6 season. If you have records like those, are they really worth 7 years and 49 million?

Will Muschamp will be paid $8.3m this year at USCe.... That's a good bit more then Gus' $6.7m.  The buyout is the issue and the only issue in my opinion.  

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

On 11/14/2018 at 8:38 PM, doc4aday said:

Who knows what will happen. The last few games our OL looked better and was given JS better protection. The problem is that JS does not have the same game set Cam or Nick had when it comes to speed. Not sure what is going on with JS, but if he had wheels like Cam and Nick, we could very well have 1-3 more wins this season. JS is gun shy and just does not look comfortable in the offense. I know he has gotten pounded several games, but over the past few games, he has gotten better protection. I just would like for us to find a bonafide DT QB of which would likely yield us 2 or more wins for 2019 over our W/L record for 2018. I think our OL will improve enough to give Bryant a chance to give us a 9-3 or better season for 2019. Bo could be a huge factor for 2019 as well.

Wouldn't even have to be that fast. Look at Ehlinger at Texas. Like last nights game, you could see a complete difference in the effectiveness of the offense when he got hurt. Beuchele isn't gonna keep an run so all those zone reads became ineffective. Texas then switched and ran a bunch of those screens that most Auburn fans hate now due to pressure. Course UT's wide outs don't drop much and are great at breaking tackles. Humphrey is just a beast.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:29 PM, AU64 said:

I think that's so....if I recall, the guys  he had at Tulsa were not very DT either....better than JS but not Cam or Nick style QBs...and they churned up a lot of offense there too.  

Not sure he needs a true DT like Watson at Clemson for example (or Nick) , but he does need a QB who can get away from a rush and does not dump the ball at the first indication that a DE or LB might be getting through. Well every coach needs that I guess. .  

We were discussing this type of things with some friends at the UT game last night. I have no doubts that if Auburn had Ehlinger and Humphrey (just two players) that Auburn would of beat LSU, MSU, Tenn, and that Georgia game would of been in question.

So I agree with you. Doesn't have to be a Cam or Nick, just enough of a threat to make that read enough of a threat to keep the D honest.

[corchjay 5,311]

15 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

We were discussing this type of things with some friends at the UT game last night. I have no doubts that if Auburn had Ehlinger and Humphrey (just two players) that Auburn would of beat LSU, MSU, Tenn, and that Georgia game would of been in question.

So I agree with you. Doesn't have to be a Cam or Nick, just enough of a threat to make that read enough of a threat to keep the D honest.

Agreed and why I say every big game Stidham needs to keep the read 7-8 times just to keep the DE and backside linebacker honest.  Heck he doesn't have to rip off 15 yard runs just get what he can get and get down.  Then when one of our backs gets to make a guy miss or slips a tackle he's off to the races.  Plus I think it helps almost all QBs in college to take a few shots to get "awake".  

[fredst 9,064]

8 minutes ago, corchjay said:

why I say every big game Stidham needs to keep the read 7-8 times just to keep the DE and backside linebacker honest. 

Like with his TD last night...

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, fredst said:

Like with his TD last night...

Exactly.  

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

I feel a big part of the problem is trying to do too much with packages. In 2013-2014, our offense was so fast and so fun, and yet unbelievably simple when you really break it down. We've ran the same plays just using formations and motion and misdirection to dress it up. I think somewhere along the line it seems as if he tried to evolve by utilizing specialized personnel packages, which there are a lot of coaches that swear by that and are extremely successful, and Gus just lost his way with the HUNH. That has also been a catalyst for our predictability as well. I don't think we have to have Superman as a QB to be successful, I do think it helps though. One issue I have had in the last few years where we haven't had a true DT, is the lack of QB keep in the reads, I don't know how many times I've seen us run the zone read with stidham, white, Johnson, where the end was wide open if the QB keeps it. It makes me wonder if we are really even running the zone read..or just a designed have off made to look exactly like a read. Every other aspect of the play looks the part, even the unblocked read man, but hardly ever kept by the QB. I played QB in HS and we ran a zone read, inverted veer offense and if I made incorrect reads as often as it appears our QBs have I would've been at a new position or riding the bench. I just don't get it. 

[AURealist 2,185]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

Will Muschamp will be paid $8.3m this year at USCe.... That's a good bit more then Gus' $6.7m.  The buyout is the issue and the only issue in my opinion.  

$8.3M?  Sounds high.  

I thought it was:

$880,000 - UF buyout

$4.2M  - USCe salary

$1.7M - incentives

= $6,780,000 max

What have I missed?

[PoetTiger 1,896]

4 minutes ago, AURealist said:

$8.3M?  Sounds high.  

I thought it was:

$880,000 - UF buyout

$4.2M  - USCe salary

$1.7M - incentives

= $6,780,000 max

What have I missed?

And some think Gus is stealing money...nothing Will has done in his career as a HC thus far warrants his salary, but hey they both are relatively young in their HC careers, maybe they both turn the corner soon.

[AURealist 2,185]

Just now, PoetTiger said:

And some think Gus is stealing money...nothing Will has done in his career as a HC thus far warrants his salary, but hey they both are relatively young in their HC careers, maybe they both turn the corner soon.

The numbers above are max $ for Will.  

He'll be getting no more payments from UF and realistically probably not much in incentives from USCe.  He just got the raise to $4.2M this year which will increase over time to $5.2M in year 5.  Nowhere near $8.3M unless he's coaching baseball and basketball as well.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

2019 will be another 7 to 8 win season.