Hastings, Stove and .....

[KolchakAU85 430]

21 hours ago, tigerman1186 said:

I know many of you won't agree, but loosing the services of receivers Hastings, Stove and then NCM, placed a lot of extra pressure on Davis and Slayton, plus Stidham...I'm sure he would have had a better year statically and maybe a few more W's if those 3 would have been playing the whole season. I know the new freshman have played well at times, but nothing can replace experience and those 3 played in a lot of meaningful games over the past 3 years....again I know this doesn't ease the sting from this season, but I feel the O would have been somewhat better if these 3 were playing...maybe when Gus is talking about 'we'll be better on the offensive side' maybe he's thinking about the return of Hastings and Stove...along with the current freshman receivers....

I think Gus is counting on 2 things when he says the future is bright and the offense will improve greatly:

1. Kelly Bryant playing for AU next year.

2. Hugh Freeze or Kendall Briles becoming OC next year.

#1 gives him the luxury of knowing he can red-shirt the #1 dual threat prep QB, Bo Nix.

 

[GwillMac6 20,600]

21 hours ago, milehighfan said:

Everyone says we have to get better on the OL. and I agree. But my question is what top flight OL are truly interested in coming to Auburn?

I AM CLAPPING MY HANDS AND WAVING THEM ALL AROUND AT THIS!!!!!! THAT. RIGHT. THERE. IS. THE. BLEEPING. MOTHER. BLEEPING. PROBLEM.

THERE IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! Because Gus made the absolute most lazy hire he could last cycle. Re hiring the guy HE RAN OFF THE FIRST TIME because he could not recruit. WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY AGAIN?!?!? Because Gus displays it all the time. Not just the running it up the middle after every got dang first down BUT Hiring a old dude who can't recruit...... WHEN IT IS THE POSITION WE HAVE RECRUITED THE WORST at lately and also had the most problems with development as well. We needed a grand slam hire. We got a bartolo colon embarrassment of a swing and a miss. Gus refuses to make splashy hires on offense and just hires "his guys" who he feels most comfortable with even though they are not the best nor the most qualified for the job. Only Larry Porter recently on the offensive side of the ball was a big time hire for Gus. Not to mention the Herb Hand experiment worked out so well........ Congrats you make some creative tweets. GO GET SOME FREAKING OFFENSIVE TACKLES!

 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

I would love if KB came, or HF... . Do we know if they would even want to it's be willing to? 

[imaolgatiger 523]

None of the receivers mentioned were tall enough or athletic enough to catch the overthrows from Stidham. He had plenty of open receivers and either doesn't/didn't see them or his brain won't let him throw the football. In regards to NCM, he was targeted plenty of times, but made very few plays. As others have stated, his injury cost him a step or two. Never mind, I forgot that Gus taught both of them all of their short comings.  

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

1 hour ago, KolchakAU85 said:

I think Gus is counting on 2 things when he says the future is bright and the offense will improve greatly:

1. Kelly Bryant playing for AU next year.

2. Hugh Freeze or Kendall Briles becoming OC next year.

#1 gives him the luxury of knowing he can red-shirt the #1 dual threat prep QB, Bo Nix.

 

Bo Nix is as much of a DT as Stidham is. Stidham was listed as a DT coming out of high school and when he signed with us. 

Nix is a smaller shorter version of Stidham with less arm strength. Nix may be a step or two faster than Stidham right now, but that's as a high school kid that hasn't been in a college S&C program. Now I'm not exactly thrilled with our S&C coach, I've not been for a few years (and have the posts to back that up) but let's see just how much of a DT Nix is after he has been on been on campus for a couple of years. Something tells me he won't be much faster than Stidham now. 

Almost every Auburn fan was excited we had signed a DT QB when we signed Stidham... Because that's how he was listed. 

Nix, like Stidham is no more of a DT than Sean White or Brandon Cox.

Just because someone is listed as a DT, doesn't make them the DT that we had seen in Cam or Marshall.

 

Now if Bryant signs, he would be more of a DT than Nix and Stidham combined.

[Tiger 8,817]

Seth Williams is naturally gifted enough to break free of the stench of Gus' offense and put the curse that is on AU WRs in the NFL to rest IMO

[CR 2,427]

4 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

I AM CLAPPING MY HANDS AND WAVING THEM ALL AROUND AT THIS!!!!!! THAT. RIGHT. THERE. IS. THE. BLEEPING. MOTHER. BLEEPING. PROBLEM.

THERE IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! Because Gus made the absolute most lazy hire he could last cycle. Re hiring the guy HE RAN OFF THE FIRST TIME because he could not recruit. WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY AGAIN?!?!? Because Gus displays it all the time. Not just the running it up the middle after every got dang first down BUT Hiring a old dude who can't recruit...... WHEN IT IS THE POSITION WE HAVE RECRUITED THE WORST at lately and also had the most problems with development as well. We needed a grand slam hire. We got a bartolo colon embarrassment of a swing and a miss. Gus refuses to make splashy hires on offense and just hires "his guys" who he feels most comfortable with even though they are not the best nor the most qualified for the job. Only Larry Porter recently on the offensive side of the ball was a big time hire for Gus. Not to mention the Herb Hand experiment worked out so well........ Congrats you make some creative tweets. GO GET SOME FREAKING OFFENSIVE TACKLES!

 

Quit holding back and tell us what you really think.
And I agree.

[GwillMac6 20,600]

16 minutes ago, CR said:

Quit holding back and tell us what you really think.
And I agree.

That is a big problem of mine I have been told. I do not show enough emotion.......

[AUwent 3,747]

17 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

I AM CLAPPING MY HANDS AND WAVING THEM ALL AROUND AT THIS!!!!!! THAT. RIGHT. THERE. IS. THE. BLEEPING. MOTHER. BLEEPING. PROBLEM.

THERE IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! Because Gus made the absolute most lazy hire he could last cycle. Re hiring the guy HE RAN OFF THE FIRST TIME because he could not recruit. WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY AGAIN?!?!? Because Gus displays it all the time. Not just the running it up the middle after every got dang first down BUT Hiring a old dude who can't recruit...... WHEN IT IS THE POSITION WE HAVE RECRUITED THE WORST at lately and also had the most problems with development as well. We needed a grand slam hire. We got a bartolo colon embarrassment of a swing and a miss. Gus refuses to make splashy hires on offense and just hires "his guys" who he feels most comfortable with even though they are not the best nor the most qualified for the job. Only Larry Porter recently on the offensive side of the ball was a big time hire for Gus. Not to mention the Herb Hand experiment worked out so well........ Congrats you make some creative tweets. GO GET SOME FREAKING OFFENSIVE TACKLES!

 

And this is Exhibit A, your honor, of why I FIRMLY believe that the buyout made him lazy.

[TigerFanAU 586]

Good post OP. The relationship between Qb and WR takes time and experience to develop. There's also a trust factor involved. 

[L I G E R 120]

On 11/15/2018 at 12:09 PM, atl-tiger said:

I don't buy into the separation argument either.  With Stidham and this offense you're not getting a lot of targets unless the play is designed to go to you as the 1st read.  

Yep.  And people that parrot the “NCM couldn’t get separation” argument are incomprehensibly dumb for two reasons:

1.  They’re excusing an incompetent dipshit (Gus) for not designing routes/plays that CREATE separation.

2.  They don’t understand what typical “separation” actually is in SEC football.

 

NCM wasn’t one of Gus’s favorites and wasn’t one of the pre-designed cookie-cutter targets for most of the plays which had a pre-snap target:

1.  Ryan Davis - screen pass guy

2.  Embarrius Slayton - go deep guy

3.  Will Hastings - option route/I’m close with his Arky HS coach guy

4.  Eli Stove - speed sweep guy

This is 75% of the usage of our WR corps and it’s embarrassing.

[L I G E R 120]

On 11/15/2018 at 12:17 PM, abw0004 said:

Those are good points.  The only other thing I would say was when we did throw to him, he couldn’t hang on to the ball.  Seth has just as many targets, contested targets, but he caught them.  I liked NCM, seemed like a humble person.  But I think he had every opportunity this year to shine and couldn’t for whatever reason.  

Please reference these countless drops NCM had.

Darius Slayton, for example, catches about 25-30% of the passes thrown his way... since he’s been here.

[DAG 33,955]

11 minutes ago, L I G E R said:

Please reference these countless drops NCM had.

Darius Slayton, for example, catches about 25-30% of the passes thrown his way... since he’s been here.

I am interested to hear this too. 

[abw0004 10,104]

3 hours ago, L I G E R said:

Please reference these countless drops NCM had.

Darius Slayton, for example, catches about 25-30% of the passes thrown his way... since he’s been here.

Fair enough.  As a starter the last two years, NCM only caught 18 passes (16 in 2017 and 2 for 2018).  Last year, Auburn passed on roughly 40% of the plays.  NCM has the most snaps of any WR last year too.  Now I know this attests more to his inability to get separation.

I do not have the ability to find a target/catch ratio however and do not want to make a percentage up.  But, with a WR playing the most snaps last year, yet only 16 receptions should speak volumes.

Having said all of this, I do not dislike NCM, and I wish him well going forward.

 

[Tiger 8,817]

Gus' WRs know on certain plays they won't even be looked at. That's why there are times where our WRs lollygag through their route or jog through it. Announcers have called this out going back to Ricardo Louis. NCM wasn't targeted much because of what @L I G E R essentially said. There are certain roles in this offense and NCM was the blocker for Gus. The blocker won't get targets and never has. See Kodi Burns. 

[abw0004 10,104]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Gus' WRs know on certain plays they won't even be looked at. That's why there are times where our WRs lollygag through their route or jog through it. Announcers have called this out going back to Ricardo Louis. NCM wasn't targeted much because of what @L I G E R essentially said. There are certain roles in this offense and NCM was the blocker for Gus. The blocker won't get targets and never has. See Kodi Burns. 

I think that is fair  

[DAG 33,955]

36 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Gus' WRs know on certain plays they won't even be looked at. That's why there are times where our WRs lollygag through their route or jog through it. Announcers have called this out going back to Ricardo Louis. NCM wasn't targeted much because of what @L I G E R essentially said. There are certain roles in this offense and NCM was the blocker for Gus. The blocker won't get targets and never has. See Kodi Burns. 

Thank you. 

[alexava 6,972]

4 hours ago, L I G E R said:

Please reference these countless drops NCM had.

Darius Slayton, for example, catches about 25-30% of the passes thrown his way... since he’s been here.

I didn’t think either one had a overall bad drop rate. Slayton doesn’t attack the ball as well as I’d like but many of the passes he is said to have dropped.... the defender had a hand in there making it almost impossible to catch it. Of course the UT game stands out as one he definitely dropped. 

I think NCM was open more than we could see on tv( but plenty we could see) and JS was not getting it to him. 

[tigerrules 517]

On 11/15/2018 at 9:52 AM, abw0004 said:

I don’t think Gus could be blamed for NCM though.  He got all of the chances in the world unfortunately.  He just could not get separation at all, nor would scramble to get open for Stidham.  Seth has done a much better job in my opinion.  Steal of the class. 

I don’t know how seth’s Career at auburn will ultimately play out, but I feel will definitely  be playing on Sunday’s.  

[abw0004 10,104]

18 hours ago, L I G E R said:

Yep.  And people that parrot the “NCM couldn’t get separation” argument are incomprehensibly dumb for two reasons:

1.  They’re excusing an incompetent dipshit (Gus) for not designing routes/plays that CREATE separation.

2.  They don’t understand what typical “separation” actually is in SEC football.

 

NCM wasn’t one of Gus’s favorites and wasn’t one of the pre-designed cookie-cutter targets for most of the plays which had a pre-snap target:

1.  Ryan Davis - screen pass guy

2.  Embarrius Slayton - go deep guy

3.  Will Hastings - option route/I’m close with his Arky HS coach guy

4.  Eli Stove - speed sweep guy

This is 75% of the usage of our WR corps and it’s embarrassing.

While I do agree with what you are saying I also think this discussion is more opinion-based.  It almost in a political sense: both sides views are radically different but both have merits.  In each call we don’t know who was supposed to be the first target.  And Seth Williams, Nate’s backup, already has more receptions than Nate did the last two years combined (19).  As NCM’s back-up, he would have had just as many blocking responsibilities (pass-run percentage is roughly the same this year dispute poor rushing results), but is still able to get more receptions.  Regarding the separation, it is in the eye of the beholder of what you see on the field.  What you see may be different that what I see.  Not that one opinion is better than the other, both are just as important.  Bottom line is everyone on offense just needs more effort and the right teachers.  That is really all there is to it.  

[GoBo! 15]

Agree with most of the posters here...it won’t matter.  Gus sells “next year” as well as anyone.  We keep buying it and getting burned on it. Some in this very thread are doing it - again.  It’s become comical.  No question in my mind that we will have similar results and record next year.  We were fortunate to get the win against A&M or our record would be even worse.   Alabama is going no where.  UGA isn’t either and actually may be improving.  LSU is improving.  A&M about the same.  Arky and OM will be wins.  MSU may see a drop off.  UF improving.  Oregon?  I have no idea.  Given that, another 7 type win season lies ahead.  It stinks, but that’s our program now no matter what our overpaid snake oil salesman says. 

Off the Gus bus.  

[johnnyAU 3,630]

We have plenty of options at WR.  Gus won't even use McClain, Jackson, the TE, etc...He barely used NCM. Schwartz could be as effective as Stove or Hastings. So far, Seth has been more impressive than NCM ever was. 

It doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have all those guys available. I just don't believe Gus uses his options effectively at QB, RB, WR or TE. 

[cole256 17,039]

This was a very impressive excuse thread. I've heard many and this one is high quality. And the couldn't get separation thing. I just don't know about some of you. Trying to make pretend you can actually know that is hilarious. But I guess alot of you do that with asa the running back too so it makes sense

[cole256 17,039]

Of all things to try to analyze getting separation is the last thing a person just watching a game should try to say. So many variables are unknown to even think that. Who is actually watching the wr's when the ball don't go their way EVERY play? If the coaches watched film and he wasn't ever getting open would he really be starting? Since when do big programs recruit kids that can't get open? How many times have you even heard of this? Getting open didn't translate to college? How many catches Williams has made and he was wide open? I know many of them I've seen the reason they were incredible catches was either they weren't thrown well or he's making catches with people all on him or he's jumping higher than everybody else. Hence not open. That's just so crazy to me. I've never heard that even be said. This guy doesn't play because he literally can't ever get open. I don't even know that's a thing

[abw0004 10,104]

25 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Of all things to try to analyze getting separation is the last thing a person just watching a game should try to say. So many variables are unknown to even think that. Who is actually watching the wr's when the ball don't go their way EVERY play? If the coaches watched film and he wasn't ever getting open would he really be starting? Since when do big programs recruit kids that can't get open? How many times have you even heard of this? Getting open didn't translate to college? How many catches Williams has made and he was wide open? I know many of them I've seen the reason they were incredible catches was either they weren't thrown well or he's making catches with people all on him or he's jumping higher than everybody else. Hence not open. That's just so crazy to me. I've never heard that even be said. This guy doesn't play because he literally can't ever get open. I don't even know that's a thing

I think you are correct.  Separation is more opinion-based than anything as there really is no other measure than what you see.  It’s not black and white.  And what you are seeing on the tv may be different from what I am seeing in the stadium.  And separation isn’t the first thing I look at.  At the time of snap I look for a clean snap, and if the ball was handed off.  If not, I look at the pocket and if it collapses or the QB gets flushed out.  Either way I then look the at receivers at where they are and who is open and coming back to the QB if he is scrambling so I will notice how tight the db’s are to the WR.  That is a benefit at being at any game if you see what the tv may cut off.

I do think the coaches were seeing that he was going to get passed by Williams with his play this year.  It was the best move for NCM to transfer for him and his family for many reasons outside of this.  I do hope he finds success at his next stop.  I have been happy with Seth and many times wonder why Alabama didn’t go after this kid.  Just my two cents of course, nothing more.  Hope you are doing well Cole.