Josh Moon has some Malzahn info

[TitanTiger 20,471]

2 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

And 9 guards. I just don't get it. If he was recruiting guards who had the wingspan to play OT, then that would be a lot better.... But he doesn't. Its mainly OGs and WRs 

He also has an annoying tendency to get locked in on a player or couple of players that are extremely highly rated but he's simply not going to get.  I admire giving it your best shot, but good coaches know when to move on to other talented players they can actually sign.  He doesn't until it's too late.  So he'll hold out for the 5-star tailback who was always going to sign with Georgia, Ohio State or LSU, while letting 2 or 3 other SEC-caliber 4-star RBs feel neglected and end up committing to and sticking with someone else.  Then he scrambles at the end and signs a 180-lb. 3-star or finds a transfer.  And this process repeats at OT, QB, and so on.

Steele on the other hand doesn't fall into those traps.  He recruits and signs people at every position every class.  He doesn't go star-gazing and neglect talented guys he can snatch up.  If there's a need at a certain spot he might sign an extra guy or two there in one class, but it's not wild swings where we get 9 DBs and no linebackers.

[Timbeaux38 299]

16 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

I'm not plugging my ears and closing my eyes, I'm using basic logic that says what kind of fool would allow millions to be ripped away from him? What kind of fool would allow tighter restriction to be put on him, for essentially nothing in return, except a job in Auburn? What is being reported (by small-time outlets BTW), goes against natural human instinct. Anyone with half a brain would keep trying, and if their employer didn't like the result, then they can fire me, but I'm not giving them money that was agreed upon at an earlier date. 

 Gus could get fired and have enough money for generations. Are ya'll really thinking he did this out of the goodness of his heart? You really think he wants to be at Auburn so bad that he gave up $5, $10, $15 million dollars? Yeah, I'm skeptical.

And where is the upside for the program? Drag yourself into sub-mediocrity for a year, alienate your fanbase and potential recruits, become a laughing stock in your conference and lose even more ground to your 2 biggest rivals.....  So Gus gets into a worse situation, and so does the Program.... there has to be a winner somewhere, and I don't see one.

[auburnphan 6,050]

12 minutes ago, ChltteTiger said:

You cannot get in Gus' head so stop trying.

That is the problem.  On the field before the Oklahoma game, he had a conversation for 20 minutes about the FSU game and how much that one stung with a referee.  He said that one still hurts and thinks about it all the time.  His head is a mess, he blew his chance.  But refuses to believe that Cam was the reason for the first one, it was him and his offense.

[ChltteTiger 649]

7 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

No I can't. If all this is true, then I am truly baffled on the inner workings of this man. Calling whacky football plays is one thing, taking away generational money from kids, grandkids, great-grandkids is on an entire different level. Giving up money that was contractually given to him fair and square, and allowing tighter restrictions on his coaching hires, just wow. I won't believe it until someone signs on the dotted line.

We will just have to wait and see. Nothing we can do about any of it. Maybe picket the idiot prez's mansion lol

[TigerFanAU 586]

1 minute ago, ChltteTiger said:

Maybe picket the idiot prez's mansion lol

I've heard its real fancy now lol. 

In all seriousness, whether Gus agrees to the reduced buyout, it seems he's here for 2019 regardless, but Leath, I'm not so sure....

[Win4AU 4,052]

2 minutes ago, gr82b4au said:

I think the substitution rule changed everything for the HUNH. Now that it slows the game down considerably, you are 100% correct. The only way to get this offense working is to have a DT QB, keep the same personnel in the game, have about 10 plays with the QB keep being one of them, and to go fast. That is it. Gus may as well just come out and say he is the OC because that is the truth anyway. Give him a DT QB and let him do what he used to be good at - running the offense his way with nobody standing in his way. That is why he was hired anyway. He is not a CEO coach. If the O does not work, there is nobody to blame but him. You then fire him after next season and move on...

It still does not solve the problem of building a PROGRAM, but it will correct the team for a year. 

I think you can build a program around that. You recruit DT Qbs which are becoming more prevalent in the NFL.  Auburn has placed several Oline men in the NFL since 2013 so you should be able to recruit there.  Auburn has at least 3 RBs in the NFL currently since 2013 so you should be able to recruit there.  WRs is tricky but once again Auburn has placed several WRs in the NFL since 2013.  If Gus ever figured out how to use a TE then that could be a huge strength as well.  I also agree Gus needs an OC that mirrors his beliefs and not one that wants to throw to open up the run.  I’m not a rule guru but if the offense doesn’t sub then the defense isn’t given time to sub I believe.  Maybe I’m a wrong but I think the best thing for Gus and this team is to let him do it his way and stop trying to get him to change.  Like you said if it goes bad then it’s on him with no excuses.

[ChltteTiger 649]

2 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

I've heard its real fancy now lol. 

In all seriousness, whether Gus agrees to the reduced buyout, it seems he's here for 2019 regardless, but Leath, I'm not so sure....

If Leath is off in D.C. instead of at AU making sure this doesn't turn into a catastrophe, it is just one more brick in the wall. He needs to be fired.

[sportstiger 13]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

The problem is, Gus doesn't see it that way.  He really thinks he's just 2 or 3 players away from being back in the thick of the SEC race.  Bryan Matthews from the Rivals site even went down a list of holes on the roster that need to be filled for Auburn to be competitive with Alabama and Georgia again - multiple offensive linemen, at least a couple of SEC caliber running backs, quarterback (since Stidham is all but gone), a elite pass rusher off the edge and Gus basically said he doesn't believe we need that many.  He thinks we're right on the cusp.

And maybe we are if we hit it big at a couple of slots and everything comes together.  But this is part of the problem with Gus.  He seems to think in terms of plugging a hole year to year and making a run and doesn't seem to build a solid foundation to compete for multiple years.  And since his talent evaluation is shaky at best, it's feast or famine.  Hit on a great one like Nick Marshall and you make a magical run.  But if you don't find that guy it's back to mediocrity.

Well put TitanTiger!

[aubiefifty 16,705]

9 hours ago, passthebiscuits said:

this whole situation is absolutely ridiculous. If Gus and Auburn go for this, they both deserve what they get. Look at the schedule next year and see if this makes any reasonable sense--we are delaying the inevitable. Most Auburn fans are reasonable--if you could give us an excellent season every 5 seasons or so and just handle business for the other 4 and beat the teams you should beat, we would take it. Instead we get what we get. 

Lack of hope is what will kill this program. I'm down to only a sliver. 

my thing is the gus bashers. i am not sure i can take another year of those that trash gus several times a day every single day. we get it so just give it a break. but we know that is not going to happen......

[cctiger 571]

9 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

what kind of fool would allow millions to be ripped away from him? What kind of fool would allow tighter restriction to be put on him, for essentially nothing in return, except a job in Auburn? What is being reported (by small-time outlets BTW), goes against natural human instinct. Anyone with half a brain would keep trying, and if their employer didn't like the result, then they can fire me, but I'm not giving them money that was agreed upon at an earlier date. 

This, and the TPTB are just giving up on next season waiting in the wings to fire the man! Come on!  this doesn't even make any sense. Recruiting will bottom out, players are going to go through a season of uncertainty with a lame-duck coach? Folks, we may be looking at multiple transfers(muck like Louisville now)if all this stupidity goes down as is being reported! What will the roster look like this time next year! They are willing, and going to simply throw away a full year of Auburn University Football, kill recruiting for a couple of years, and set the program back like this? PAY THE MAN! Hire a coach, pay him and get on with Auburn Football!  I've got to wake up from this unreal dream at some point! LOL!

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

Let be the first to admit I was wrong. I thought no way was Gus give up a lot of his control and money to keep his job at AU but apparently that is exactly what he plans to do. Not sure if he really believes he can turn it around in one year or not. 2013 was the worst thing that could have happened to Gus. To come so close and fail to win the big prize totally destroyed him. He bases everything he does on that game. Wonder why we can’t seem to get momentum going? Because Gus can’t stop second guessing himself.

[aubiefifty 16,705]

Gus is willing to give back for two reasons. he knows he let folks down and he loves Auburn. i would hope that if someone loved Auburn that much they would give gus props for that anyway. instead some of you turn it into something horrible as usual......

[Zeek 16,615]

24 minutes ago, gr82b4au said:

I think the substitution rule changed everything for the HUNH. Now that it slows the game down considerably, you are 100% correct. The only way to get this offense working is to have a DT QB, keep the same personnel in the game, have about 10 plays with the QB keep being one of them, and to go fast. That is it. Gus may as well just come out and say he is the OC because that is the truth anyway. Give him a DT QB and let him do what he used to be good at - running the offense his way with nobody standing in his way. That is why he was hired anyway. He is not a CEO coach. If the O does not work, there is nobody to blame but him. You then fire him after next season and move on...

It still does not solve the problem of building a PROGRAM, but it will correct the team for a year. 

Agreed the cry baby Saban got his way in killing the HUNH in it's old form

However, if we don't substitute and if the kids are in good enough shape then it can live in a new form.

[ausburn 159]

We have a current contract in force.  Posturing to revise contract or payout.  President and Greene both living up to their promises to keep Gus.  Gus wants to stay not go and will take less buyout and put his money with staff decisions to offset additional staff expense.  If we were going to fire him it would of happened.  Only options left is two sides can't agree.  WBRC as stated by others is saying an agreement in principle has been reached.  We move forward but I do not enjoy coming to this forum the coming year for the bashing of Gus.  Popularity or lack of for a coach does not mean I pull away from Auburn.  From some fan views they hope for bad outcomes for the team next year so getting Gus gone is easier.  Home run hires do not just happen.  Every school wants a home run hire and they are few and far away. A divided fan base is the worse of all of this. If lack of popular sentiment ruled Gus would be gone.  Your smart if you want him gone  and stupid if you want him to stay.  Your a faithful supporter for wanting him to stay or your an idiot for wanting him  gone.  Choose your side and  start new threads.   Gus is gone.....Stoops is coming.....Wait.....oh.... They what?....He is staying?....No......Wash rinse repeat often as need.  War Eagle

[gr82be 14,402]

30 minutes ago, Timbeaux38 said:

And where is the upside for the program? Drag yourself into sub-mediocrity for a year, alienate your fanbase and potential recruits, become a laughing stock in your conference and lose even more ground to your 2 biggest rivals.....  So Gus gets into a worse situation, and so does the Program.... there has to be a winner somewhere, and I don't see one.

I think you answered your own question and they didn't need any help. 

[meh130 1,043]

1 hour ago, aucom96 said:

Gus is a small time coach and thinks like one. He looks for tricks and shortcuts instead of building a solid foundation. This is what his scheme was all about. He used built-in substitution advantages over the defense with his no huddle offense. Once those advantages were removed, our "Auburn Fast" went the way of the dodo. He wrote a book. He thinks he has the game figured out and he doesn't. So lacking talent and depth on the offensive line? The scheme has an answer, we just don't execute. Have completely predictable and limited passing routes? If it works in theory, it should always work...so execution again. Feeding the ball 30 times between the tackles to a 180 pound RB? It should work, just bad execution. 

Gus needs to be in the Sunbelt at best. He can't handle the talent and coaching that the SEC has. 

I agree with about 90% of this. The substitution rule change is not as big deal as people make it out to be. If you run a true HUNH, and you don't substitute, the defense cannot substitute. Yes, Gus also used to use fast substitution, but that was limited. Malzahn's original offensive scheme was based on hybrid players, such as a TE who could play as a WR, a hand-down TE, or an H-Back, and a WR/RB hybrid who could be used as a RB for jet sweep plays. Even Malzahn's original Wildcat did not require substitution. The idea was just to move the players already on the field around to create a power formation. For some reason we have gotten completely away from that, despite players like Sal Canella and Devin Adams who seem well suited for hybrid roles. Even the idea of hurrying up to the line, letting the coaches in the booth observe the defense, then signalling in plays from the sideline seems to have gone away.

Gus is a scheme coach, and scheme coaches work best at lower levels. What I concluded a few years ago was if you put an average coached 2-star WR against an average coached 2-star CB in a non Power 5 match up, the scheme can create huge mismatches. If you put a well coached 4-star WR against a well coached 4-star CB in a matchup of to 10 programs, the scheme is not going to make a big difference.

The other comments about how our recruiting is random are disturbing. You get to sign 25 recruits per year. That literally is a complete football team plus an additional three. We should be recruiting on average 5 OLs per class. Gus has averaged 2.7 OLs per class. If you take out the 2015 class, which had 5 OLs (2019 redshirt seniors), the average drops to 2.25 per class. I am including Prince Sammons as an OL recruit, because Hand recruited Sammons specifically to play OL. I am not including Prince Tega as an OL recruit, because we originally recruited him to play DL. I am not including transfers.  We only have 2 OLs in the 2019 class.

In 2020, with the reality of losing our entire 2019 starting OL (Wanogho, Harrell, Kim, Horton, and Driscoll), and one backup (Bailey Sharp), and the potential transfer losses of Sammons and Ashley, we could end up with 8 returning scholarship OLs , two of which would be redshirt freshmen. That compares to 12 returning scholarship OLs this year, three of which were redshirt freshmen.

I do not think we are headed for a losing season in 2019. But I think 2020 will be a disaster.

[auburnphan 6,050]

16 minutes ago, cctiger said:

This, and the TPTB are just giving up on next season waiting in the wings to fire the man! Come on!  this doesn't even make any sense. Recruiting will bottom out, players are going to go through a season of uncertainty with a lame-duck coach? Folks, we may be looking at multiple transfers(muck like Louisville now)if all this stupidity goes down as is being reported! What will the roster look like this time next year! They are willing, and going to simply throw away a full year of Auburn University Football, kill recruiting for a couple of years, and set the program back like this? PAY THE MAN! Hire a coach, pay him and get on with Auburn Football!  I've got to wake up from this unreal dream at some point! LOL!

Rich guys and their money do whatever they want, it is about ego and power.  The program pays the price.

[weagl1 1,781]

I think this is over and it’s time to move on.  Support our coaches and players and hope for the best.  We will be picked next year as a lower tier SEC team and well out of the top 25 and that is when Auburn is at its best.  If you look at our history when we are picked high there is about to be an enormous face plant.  But pick us low and look out!  We coming back with a vengeance!  Here’s to 15-0 in 2019 and Gus is a genius again!  

[auburnphan 6,050]

 Greene really needs to make a public statement today saying Gus is our guy and nothing has changed or we are finishing up a restructure and Gus will remain our Head Coach if that is the case.  If not we should expect silence

[ChltteTiger 649]

4 minutes ago, weagl1 said:

 Here’s to 15-0 in 2019 and Gus is a genius again!  

Please look at the 2019 schedule and take a hard look at the roster and tell me you aren't being delusional.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

23 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

Gus is willing to give back for two reasons. he knows he let folks down and he loves Auburn. i would hope that if someone loved Auburn that much they would give gus props for that anyway. instead some of you turn it into something horrible as usual......

I have mixed feelings about this. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think what most people here thought "what kind of idiot" but then I really tried to break it down ...I do believe he loves Auburn. I think Gus moved through the coaching rankings at this level much faster than expected and then most do.... And maybe he is tied to and loves Auburn for taking a chance on him. And then we extended his contract to make him top 5 coach. Hell maybe he is just one of those people that loves Auburn. It seems to leave a special place with most of our former coaches i.e. dye, tubs, chiz, maybe he loves it and said I don't care I'm not here for the money. Maybe it's a pride think which is more likely. Maybe he really believe we are that close. Just a couple plays away... And in some instances he is right.... But the issue is with the games we lost exception of amen corner, we shouldn't have been a couple plays away ... So idk what to think....I do wish someone would come out with an official statement and out this all to bed. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

This podcast from Jay Tate and Bryan Matthews late last night gives a good synopsis of where all this is at.  It's about 30 minutes long but a really good listen:

LINK

[weagl1 1,781]

6 minutes ago, ChltteTiger said:

Please look at the 2019 schedule and take a hard look at the roster and tell me you aren't being delusional.

No more delusional than those who thought we had Stoops locked up and there would be an announcement at any moment that Gus was out and he was in.  

[TitanTiger 20,471]

After listening to that, my guess is this is going one of two ways:

1.  Auburn guys who want to replace Gus with a "homerun hire" get their man and Auburn pays a substantial amount of the buyout to send him on his way.

2. Auburn realizes it's stuck with Gus and firing him to hire a Jeff Brohm is untenable after floating the likes of Bob Stoops out there.  But the demands they put out there to get him to leave of his own accord they now realize hurt Auburn more than anyone.  You need to build the football facility.  You can't hamstring him from fixing the offensive side of things.  So a restructured deal will be announced that reduces the buyout significantly, but they back down on the more onerous stuff so he can go get some new offensive coaches.

I just can't see it happening any other way at this point. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Jay Tate thinks his approach on offense is still rooted somewhat in his high school days.  High school coaches for the most part have to make it work with the players they get.  There's really not much recruiting at that level for most schools.  You get who is zoned for you or who can pay to come to your private school and you fit them in to what you're doing.  I think on a cognitive level he gets that he can recruit better players, but he doesn't seem to grasp roster management, particularly on the offensive side.  So we'll sign one OT in three classes but have 13 WRs over the same period.  Crap like that.

This....^^^^^^^^^