Tuberville weighs in ...

[DAG 33,955]

Same fans keeping bringing up Bama but the first to say the only reason why people are upset is because the success of Saban. Hypocrites much? 

[McLoofus 35,182]

30 minutes ago, keesler said:

I do admit that I probably did quickly forget the good. 

To me it's less a question of whether or not you forget the good, but more a question of whether or not you think the good forgives the bad. I think I know where you stand, and if I'm right, that's where I stand, too.

 

[Rednilla 5,383]

On 12/6/2018 at 2:26 PM, McLoofus said:

Quite a leap on your part, and a fallacious one, I'm afraid. 

How much time do you spend on bama boards?

Also, keep in mind that it's 2018, and not 2013 or 2010.

Since 2010, saban has won 4 national championships and is knocking on the door of another with perhaps his best team yet. Of the 3 years that he didn't win the national championship- repeat, saban has won more national championships over the last 7 years than he has not won- he was in the playoffs in 2 of those years and lost out on winning another in 1 of those 2 years on a last second play. (And, of course, the only reason he didn't play for one that 3rd year is because we beat them on a literal last second play with the greatest play in CFB history.)

Since 2013, Gus has won 1 SEC West title, has not won an SEC championship, has not been to the playoffs and has lost at least 4 games every season. 

So now that it's 2018, which fanbase do you think might be more critical of a blown lead their coach was responsible 5 or 8 years ago? 

You have done nothing to show that you view last season as a good one. However, you do have a good point about fan bases still being sour over a blown lead several years ago. 

As for how much time I spend on Bama boards, the answer is none, but I do have several friends on Facebook who post the same way that many on the boards do, and I didn't see a peep out of them about it. Maybe that's just because I was oblivious to it, or maybe the NC they won in 09 dulled their pain to it (not to mention that they weren't going to win it all that year). Or maybe they accepted that it was just Auburn's year (unlikely, but possible).

As for Saban winning more NCs in the last seven years than he's not won, that's just evidence that the cards are stacked to favor Bama. No other team has failed to reach their conference championship and still had a shot at the national title, but Bama has done it twice. Take away those two that they shouldn't have been qualified for, and he has won 2 this decade...still a good number, but not the same kind of dominating number that exists as is.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

1 hour ago, Rednilla said:

You have done nothing to show that you view last season as a good one. However, you do have a good point about fan bases still being sour over a blown lead several years ago. 

Gus has given us two 10 win seasons, however; don't forget either that before we beat UGA and Bama in 2017 that Gus was on the hot seat for blowing a 20 point lead to LSU. Those games were essentially must win games for Gus, not the moral victory type games where just being close in both games or only winning 1 of the two games would have been good enough to get Gus off the hot seat. Had we lost to either UGA or Bama last year, then Gus would have likely been fired because just 1 more SEC loss would have eliminated us from winning the West.

That's why the contract Gus got was such a knee jerk reaction. We were 10-2 and hadn't actually won anything while his $49 million contract was being signed off on. Some of us saw the error at the time(not hindsight) that we needed to play hardball with Gus and not just give Gus everything before he'd actually brought home any hardware. That's a lot of why fans soured on the 2017 season at the end because of not just how it ended with 2 losses but that we were put on the hook for a ridiculous contract and buyout  all the while coming away without a championship. It was a double whammy.

To circle back to Tuberville, we went 11-2 in 2006 but didn't win the West and were snubbed out of a BCS bowl. But in 2007, we lost O-linemen from 2006 and 1st team All SEC RB Kenny Irons. We started 3 Freshman O-linemen the next year: Ziemba, Ramsey, and Pugh and we still went 9-4 in 2007. We didn't drop down to 7-5 like we did in 2018. And we were close to winning the West in 2007 because had LSU not made a ridiculous last second touchdown by Matt Flynn then we could have easily won 10 games and finished with back to back 10 wins seasons.

Jumping back to Gus now, despite the O-line suffering losses from 2017, there's no excuse good enough to explain losing at home to Tennessee. I thought we would go 8-4 this year or even 9-3 or maybe 10-2 if the offense gelled well enough.  I'm generally pessimistic when it comes to predicting wins and losses with Auburn football but even a lot of the so called "negabarners" didn't predict Auburn to lose to Tennessee. And like I mentioned in another thread, the Tennessee loss is a lot of why Gus has been put back on the hot seat and why a majority have not only soured on Gus but want him gone. There would have still been grumblings had we went 9-3 this year with losses to LSU. UGA, and Bama but it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is now. The Tennessee loss just snowballed the frustrating loss to Miss St the week before and our season was pretty much over after the Tennessee loss.

[Rednilla 5,383]

1 hour ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Gus has given us two 10 win seasons, however; don't forget either that before we beat UGA and Bama in 2017 that Gus was on the hot seat for blowing a 20 point lead to LSU. Those games were essentially must win games for Gus, not the moral victory type games where just being close in both games or only winning 1 of the two games would have been good enough to get Gus off the hot seat. Had we lost to either UGA or Bama last year, then Gus would have likely been fired because just 1 more SEC loss would have eliminated us from winning the West.

That's why the contract Gus got was such a knee jerk reaction. We were 10-2 and hadn't actually won anything while his $49 million contract was being signed off on. Some of us saw the error at the time(not hindsight) that we needed to play hardball with Gus and not just give Gus everything before he'd actually brought home any hardware. That's a lot of why fans soured on the 2017 season at the end because of not just how it ended with 2 losses but that we were put on the hook for a ridiculous contract and buyout  all the while coming away without a championship. It was a double whammy.

To circle back to Tuberville, we went 11-2 in 2006 but didn't win the West and were snubbed out of a BCS bowl. But in 2007, we lost O-linemen from 2006 and 1st team All SEC RB Kenny Irons. We started 3 Freshman O-linemen the next year: Ziemba, Ramsey, and Pugh and we still went 9-4 in 2007. We didn't drop down to 7-5 like we did in 2018. And we were close to winning the West in 2007 because had LSU not made a ridiculous last second touchdown by Matt Flynn then we could have easily won 10 games and finished with back to back 10 wins seasons.

Jumping back to Gus now, despite the O-line suffering losses from 2017, there's no excuse good enough to explain losing at home to Tennessee. I thought we would go 8-4 this year or even 9-3 or maybe 10-2 if the offense gelled well enough.  I'm generally pessimistic when it comes to predicting wins and losses with Auburn football but even a lot of the so called "negabarners" didn't predict Auburn to lose to Tennessee. And like I mentioned in another thread, the Tennessee loss is a lot of why Gus has been put back on the hot seat and why a majority have not only soured on Gus but want him gone. There would have still been grumblings had we went 9-3 this year with losses to LSU. UGA, and Bama but it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is now. The Tennessee loss just snowballed the frustrating loss to Miss St the week before and our season was pretty much over after the Tennessee loss.

There's no doubt that the UT loss is a major contributing factor to the fans' reaction, for sure. And after going 7-5 through the regular season, with the marquee wins being Washington and TAMU, he absolutely deserves to be on the hot seat. I've never said anything to contradict that thought process.

But the hot seat is all he needs to be on. Due to the fact that he did correct the mistakes suffered in Baton Rouge and made that incredible push against UGA and Bama (in 2017), he bought himself some currency. I agree that he shouldn't have been given such a huge contract before the SECCG, but I understand the reasoning (recruiting, or more specifically negative recruiting by other teams). The problem is that virtually the entire fan base that's being vocal is raining down negativity on his head a season later because we didn't live up to the astronomical expectations put on a team with four starters gone from the O-line.

Now, I will admit that I'd have liked to see more of Calvin Ashley and Austin Troxell, both of whom have the talent to be stars up front, and I really wish Nick Brahms would have done well enough to keep the starting center spot because that would give us four years with the same guy calling out assignments on the line, but his experience could be critical in the years to come. We have a four star guard coming in this year's class, and if JB Grimes remains OL coach, I have little doubt that he will get the most out of the group he's given to work with (his only downfall is in recruiting, but he can teach extremely well), so I don't think things are so bleak going forward on the line, and if I'm right about that, then the offense is going to start clicking again sooner or later because there's too much talent at the skill positions not to. The additions of Tyler Fromm and Luke Deal provide a new dynamic for the offense, if they'll be utilized properly.

At the end of the day, though, it makes me sick to see Auburn people screaming for the head of a coach who won 10 games a year ago and didn't completely fall apart the following year (like Bowden did), especially with the play of the freshman class this year and the studs present in the upcoming recruiting class. We have arguably the best high school QB ready to sign at Auburn since probably Jason Campbell, and due to who his father/coach is, the kid has already been developed as much as is possible for a high schooler. I don't know that Nix will start as a true freshman, but it would surprise me none (is he enrolling early, btw?).

But yeah, it just eats at me the way so many of the things I've hated about the Alabama fan base have bled over to the Auburn fan base. I've always held Auburn above that mentality, but it is becoming more and more pervasive as the years go on, and I can't help but to believe it comes from envy over what Saban has been able to do at UAT. I say we do Auburn the way Auburn needs to be done and let the chips fall where they may. We may be the "little brother" school in the state, but there's not another such school in the country with the history of success that we have. Sure, there are down years, but to use a phrase I've heard before, the night is always darkest before the dawn, and with the level of talent in last year's recruiting class and this year's recruiting class, I get the feeling we're building something special. Why upset the apple cart and prematurely take down the guy who orchestrated all that?

[Rednilla 5,383]

4 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

To circle back to Tuberville, we went 11-2 in 2006 but didn't win the West and were snubbed out of a BCS bowl. But in 2007, we lost O-linemen from 2006 and 1st team All SEC RB Kenny Irons. We started 3 Freshman O-linemen the next year: Ziemba, Ramsey, and Pugh and we still went 9-4 in 2007. We didn't drop down to 7-5 like we did in 2018. And we were close to winning the West in 2007 because had LSU not made a ridiculous last second touchdown by Matt Flynn then we could have easily won 10 games and finished with back to back 10 wins seasons.

Now, let's break down the difference between this scenario and the one from last year. Auburn was 10-2 in the regular season, but won their bowl game. They lost three starters on the O-line and Kenny Irons, but replaced the linemen with highly regarded freshmen, and had two veterans to balance out the mix (including King Dunlap, who played on Sundays if memory serves me). Replaced Irons with Ben Tate, who I'm sure most on here remember. And then proceeded to go 8-4 in the regular season, winning their bowl game to push it to 9-4.

Last year, we had four guys up front who would leave after the season, and one who was in his first year starting. He was injured for a few games, so he didn't make all of his starts, but we did have a couple of guards who had made a few spot starts apiece. No real veterans to lead the unit. We also had a blue chip runner, like Irons, in Kerryon Johnson. To replace him this year, it's been by committee, with Whitlow emerging as the bell cow. The obvious difference is that there wasn't a veteran presence on the line...but we still finished just a game behind of where we were in 07. And that's including a game against LSU that very easily could have gone the other way, considering all that had to go into their last second field goal to win by one, as well as a rejuvenated Bama bunch that is a far cry from the team that lost to Louisiana-Monroe in 07. Provided we win our bowl game, we'll be 8-5, just a game off of the finish in 07.

Another comparison to consider, while we're breaking out the history. In 03, Auburn started with lofty aspirations, only to see them crumble into a 7-4 season, the only real saving grace being a victory in the Iron Bowl, when Bama was still swimming in mediocrity. We won the bowl game to make 8 wins, and I remember reading in the Montgomery Advertiser about how important that bowl win was for appearances sake. It was the Music City Bowl, too. This year, we have the chance to get to 8 wins in the Music City Bowl once again...and we all remember what happened in 04.

Or how about more recent, and Malzahn related? 2009 we started hot, but then faded to 7-5 in the regular season, losing to eventual national champion Alabama. We won the bowl game in outstanding fashion (I was there, cheering at the top of my lungs for Neiko Thorpe when he made that game saving tackle in overtime), and then, again, I don't have to remind anyone how we fared in 2010.

So how about we all put the pitchforks down and see what Gustav can come up with next year, see if maybe another unforeseen success story is on the way. All five starters are back on the O-line, as well as Ashley and Troxell, who got playing time in spots to give a potential boost should we have injury problems. All of our running backs return. All four of the QBs should have more mobility than our previous starter, opening up the offense more. Only Ryan Davis and Darius Slayton don't return to the receivers' corps, and we're adding a stud with outstanding length for a red zone threat in George Pickens, not to mention Matthew Hill, the highest rated receiver in last year's class who redshirted. And we gain two serviceable tight ends, something Gus has had trouble finding since Uzomah left.

Now, I'm not saying to bet the farm on next year's Auburn team, but there's plenty to be excited about, and plenty of history to back up the possibility of a great season following such a disappointing one.