2019 3* C Kamaar Bell

[bigbird 60,499]

Yeah, the one or two councilors for the 2000-3000 students aren't doing their jobs when they don't know the convoluted, bass ackward NCAA hoops to jump through.

Have you ever tried to interpret some of the rules and requirements?

[ellitor 33,085]

7 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Sorry but if a school has student athletes with capability of getting an NCAA scholarships in any sport, the counselor should know what is necessary for those players.    If not, then the person is not doing a good job.      NCAA requirements are no secret.....they have web pages full of instructions and guidelines.  

Counselors have hundreds & sometimes thousands of kids to deal with that are going into many different fields on a yearly basis. Unless a school is regularly pumping kids into college football it's unreasonable to expect the counselors to be on top of the differences of NCAA eligibility requirements to their high school diploma requirements. Also kids having to catch up in terms of being NCAA eligible can come from not taking certain classes they needed to as HS Fresh & Soph. At most HSs students don't even see counselors til their JR year so being behind could easily come from taking wrong classes early. Lastly, Bird coaches HS football & has for a long time. He knows & understands this stuff much better than most of us will come close to. I'd trust his thoughts on these things.

[Mikey 16,577]

It seems to me that a person whose JOB is to counsel students and get them ready for graduation/college/career in their chosen field should be knowledgeable as to what it takes for a student to qualify for an athletic scholarship.

Maybe some individual student isn't receptive to counseling. I can see that, but that's a different story. I cannot see a counselor not knowing what one of his/her students needs to fulfill their dream. If it's a school of 3,000 kids, then someone getting an athletic scholarship will not be a once in a lifetime event for the counselor.

Yes, the NCAA rules are complicated. Understanding them should be art of the counselor's job requirements.

[bigbird 60,499]

26 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Yes, the NCAA rules are complicated. Understanding them should be art of the counselor's job requirements.

Every school I've worked at, out if necessity, the coaches and athletics secretary do almost 100% of the NCAA work.

[McLoofus 35,182]

20 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Every school I've worked at, out if necessity, the coaches and athletics secretary do almost 100% of the NCAA work.

In Colquitt County, GA- the very poor, very rural county in a state that ranks near the bottom of the country in education that Bell comes from, where they are most likely struggling just to get most kids to even a 2 year school- they should have staff dedicated 100% to NCAA rules. 

[oracle79 3,569]

54 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Every school I've worked at, out if necessity, the coaches and athletics secretary do almost 100% of the NCAA work.

Depends on the school.  I can only speak for Texas, but each high school has to update their courses yearly on the NCAA portal, to ensure those courses are actually accepted by the NCAA as credit.  NCAA has changed their requirements from time to time, and I think the last time was around 2016.  I knew a lot more about it than most counselors, because I was also previously a coach before getting the counseling degree and moving on.  Retired now, so haven't kept up with it, but most kids that are average or better students in Texas would have no issue qualifying if they are doing the average diploma plan in Texas.  If a school has lower diploma requirement plans in place and the kid is a marginal student, it would be easy to miss out on a course or two early in high school and then have a problem later on.  And, it's getting more complicated. (One of the reasons I retired - counselors were becoming more paper pushers and requirement/compliance monitors/reporters and doing very little counseling of actual students - add in standardized state test admin, ACT/SAT, special ed/504, and AP testing/dual credit college liaison, and anywhere from 500 or more students per counselor, and at some point the student/parent has to take some responsibility for their success....rant OFF)

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

add in standardized state test admin, ACT/SAT, special ed/504, and AP testing/dual credit college liaison, and anywhere from 500 or more students per counselor

Well, especially given their exorbitant salaries, that should leave plenty of time for getting their annual NCAA guideline cert. 

[AU64 10,122]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

In Colquitt County, GA- the very poor, very rural county in a state that ranks near the bottom of the country in education that Bell comes from, where they are most likely struggling just to get most kids to even a 2 year school- they should have staff dedicated 100% to NCAA rules. 

should have done some checking some before you posted this.  The school is strong in athletics....where Rush Propst hit after being run out of Alabama....and has something like 2000 students.   Moultrie is a decent sized town... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colquitt_County_High_School

Absolutely no reason for the administration at that school to be unaware of NCAA requirements. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

58 minutes ago, AU64 said:

should have done some checking some before you posted this.  The school is strong in athletics....where Rush Propst hit after being run out of Alabama....and has something like 2000 students.   Moultrie is a decent sized town... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colquitt_County_High_School

Absolutely no reason for the administration at that school to be unaware of NCAA requirements. 

Negative, my friend. You should have asked me how I know. I've been to Moultrie. 

The fact that the school has 2000 students only spreads the faculty that much more thin. The fact that they're a football power doesn't mean that they are equipped to get every special case college-eligible. Especially when the NCAA rules change from year to year.

Lol. You and Mikey have people who work in these kinds of schools and with these kinds of programs telling you you're wrong and you're still arguing. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

In fact, when rural ass schools in poor ass Georgia have championship football teams and rock star (albeit scumbag) coaches, you think it's because they're adequately paying their guidance counselors? 

From your article, 64:

Quote

The Office also states that 60.7% of the school's graduates are college ready. The school's overall performance is higher than 59% of schools in the state.

Wow. Almost top 40% in education in a state that's bottom 40% in the country. 3 out of 5 kids are "college ready". Yeah. I'm sure that guidance counselors are flocking to Moultrie, Georgia for high salaries, cosmopolitan living, and the high premium they put on getting *all* students into top universities. 

[ellitor 33,085]

Sniffs...I smell something burning in here.

[tigerbrotha12 2,362]

So.....is...... is he..... is he here?

[AU64 10,122]

you guys are defending the inept and indefensible.....but go ahead....just gives cover for a poor school system to fail it's students. ...but don't blame the NCAA....since most schools figure it out enough that their top athletes are usually able to qualify.

  This is a football factory HS and they know how to get their kids into Div 1 schools including Auburn.     This not some hick high school in the boonies.....

  https://www.moultrieobserver.com/news/ga_fl_news/national-signing-day-features-colquitt-county-packers/article_4d1092d6-e8e5-11e6-b801-d3eaea4e9c65.html 

I know both of you like to argue for the sake of arguing but get your facts straight at least.  What you are smelling is the BS you are shoveling....

[ellitor 33,085]

2 minutes ago, AU64 said:

you guys are defending the inept and indefensible.....but go ahead....just gives cover for a poor school system to fail it's students. ...but don't blame the NCAA....since most schools figure it out enough that their top athletes are usually able to qualify.

  This is a football factory HS and they know how to get their kids into Div 1 schools including Auburn.     This not some hick high school in the boonies.....

  https://www.moultrieobserver.com/news/ga_fl_news/national-signing-day-features-colquitt-county-packers/article_4d1092d6-e8e5-11e6-b801-d3eaea4e9c65.html 

I know both of you like to argue for the sake of arguing but get your facts straight at least.  What you are smelling is the BS you are shoveling....

No. You are just out of your element as you do sometimes.

[ellitor 33,085]

13 minutes ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

So.....is...... is he..... is he here?

No clue. Your post about his 247 page is the only thing that says he is but that said as of July 1st, which he wasn't.

[Gowebb11 9,314]

I cant speak to the specifics of the Bell case, because I don’t  know them. But I do believe that a lot of these kids with borderline academics could benefit from less camp/visit activity. A bunch of these kids now are taking their 5 officials, multiple unofficials, and going to numerous camps and picnics. Someone has to be an adult and keep them focused on getting their coursework and academics taken care of. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, AU64 said:

most schools figure it out enough that their top athletes are usually able to qualify

I'm sure that's true of Colquitt County, too. It's almost like they have a good staff there who are occasionally presented with an unusual situation whose solution is heavily dependent upon timeliness and competence from the NCAA. 

7 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I know both of you like to argue for the sake of arguing

That's rich.

Good lord. What do you guys have against guidance counselors? You're being so weird, lol. 

[bigbird 60,499]

2 hours ago, ellitor said:

No. You are just out of your element as you do sometimes.

Arguing against the former counselor and coach that have been intimately involved with the process...

[augolf1716 21,109]

6 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Arguing against the former counselor and coach that have been intimately involved with the process...

 

For 7th graders don't count

[ellitor 33,085]

24 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Arguing against the former counselor and coach that have been intimately involved with the process...

Sounds like a Mikey to me but maybe 64 wants the monicor.

[bigbird 60,499]

1 hour ago, augolf1716 said:

For 7th graders don't count

They do when they become 12th graders...well some can't, then they go to Scooba

[oracle79 3,569]

1 hour ago, augolf1716 said:

For 7th graders don't count

Easy now.  There are a few exceptions, but some off the charts 7th graders do take courses for high school credit.  It's much more common for 8th graders taking things like Algebra 1 and Spanish 1 for high school credit.  That created a problem in Texas for a couple of years with standardized testing and federal testing requirements.  You would not believe the number of tedious nonsense rules and requirements in some of the course work and testing. 

Think it's simple?  Give it a shot and pretend you have a kid in high school:  http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/future

How about just applying for government aid (which many states require you to complete to get state aid or aid from the college)?  Go fill out the FAFSA...lol.  Now where do you do that?  And when is the deadline?  (Hint: it's different for some colleges and it's not after you graduate high school)

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/fafsa     OR

www.fafsa.com

One is free (i.e. that is Free Application For Federal Student Aid)

One will charge you a fee to fill out the free application.  Parents do this all the time no matter how many times you emphasize it.

[Mikey 16,577]

6 hours ago, ellitor said:

Sounds like a Mikey to me but maybe 64 wants the monicor.

I'd monitor any "guidance counselor" who is incapable of providing his students with adequate guidance right out the door. That counselor is being paid to do a job. It's his/her DAY JOB. If they aren't competent enough to do the job they are being paid to do, they should be fired for ineptitude and replaced with someone who will make the effort.

If there's a kid in school that has the talent in any field to get a college scholarship and the counselor fails to closely monitor that student's academic progress, that counselor is a failure.

[AU64 10,122]

16 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

I cant speak to the specifics of the Bell case, because I don’t  know them. But I do believe that a lot of these kids with borderline academics could benefit from less camp/visit activity. A bunch of these kids now are taking their 5 officials, multiple unofficials, and going to numerous camps and picnics. Someone has to be an adult and keep them focused on getting their coursework and academics taken care of. 

Very good point and also I expect it's pretty easy for a kid to figure  he is " done with high school" once he signs that paperwork in Dec for his scholarship.  Must be hard for those guys to stay focused on getting the rest of the academics completed.     I'm thinking of college players who get drafted following a football or basketball season ….. and how many seem to drop out of school at that point to get ready for their next step..  Probably tough to stay on track. 

But I think it is laughable for people to blame the NCAA when a school counselor or HS coach fails to keep one of their kids on track academically....when it means so much to the kid's future.     As I have heard it said a time or two......."if the job was easy, anyone could do it:"    but it's your job ...so do it right". 

[Mikey 16,577]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

As I have heard it said a time or two......."if the job was easy, anyone could do it:"    but it's your job ...so do it right".