How?

[IronMan70 3,277]

The answer is they don't run their businesses like this, in fact, they wouldn't tolerate it there. Auburn football has become more of a play thing to them so immediate gratification instead of long term planning has become more important. That's why we have the same people pushing their weight around in the short term also passing on long term upgrades to the football program. Both of those models are bad for Auburn football.

[AURealist 2,185]

23 hours ago, JBiGGiE said:

Without rewriting history, who amongst us on Nov 26th 2017 didn't think that maybe Gus had turned the corner and needed to be retained? Arkansas wanted Gus and was willing to throw Walmart money at him to get him. This is a fact. Jeff Brohm just got a huge raise and did worse this year than the last simply because Louisville wanted him. The market, as much as it pains me, is trending toward these high contracts so Auburn is just the victim of poor circumstance. We can argue til we're blue in the face about the price tag, but retaining Malzahn was the right business move at the time.

Any other conclusion is revisionist history.

To claim that the bad decision made on the contract decision was smart at the time is just preposterous. Plenty of people were for letting Gus leave for Arkansas. Many more were for delaying any contract negotiations until after the SECC game.  

I completely understand how you could feel embarrassed for being such a bad judge of Auburn's coaching situation at the time, but that's just on you, not us.   Selling a story that everyone thought as you did probably makes you feel better about it, but it's not true.  

Seriously, you should read the thread before making such ridiculous statements. 

I suggest you pay particular attention to every single one of my posts in the thread and the insults I received for my points of view. 

And if the Auburn Tigers are a victim of anything, it's of piss poor management and a delusional fan base.   

 

 

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

1 hour ago, AURealist said:

To claim that the bad decision made on the contract decision was smart at the time is just preposterous. Plenty of people were for letting Gus leave for Arkansas. Many more were for delaying any contract negotiations until after the SECC game.  

I completely understand how you could feel embarrassed for being such a bad judge of Auburn's coaching situation at the time, but that's just on you, not us.   Selling a story that everyone thought as you did probably makes you feel better about it, but it's not true.  

Seriously, you should read the thread before making such ridiculous statements. 

I suggest you pay particular attention to every single one of my posts in the thread and the insults I received for my points of view. 

And if the Auburn Tigers are a victim of anything, it's of piss poor management and a delusional fan base.   

 

 

You are correct. I was generalizing when I said "everybody"... maybe more like a 90/10 split.

But I stand by the statement that the contract extension was a smart move in the moment. Auburn had just come off a November hot streak topping the number 1 team in the nation twice, and playing for a conference title and playoff berth. The alternative to retaining Malzahn was A) the embarrassment of letting a 10-win coach leave for a 4-win Arkansas team that was going to be a total rebuild. Malzahn at Arkansas could tank a couple bad years because of the nature of the rebuild, however if Auburn goes 7-5 (as we did this year) under a new coach, all of our problems get deflected back on how we shouldn't have let Malzahn go. C) You run the risk of letting Arkansas surpass you because you didn't retain your 10-win coach. D) Lastly the pool of replacement coaches was pretty shallow last year. You don't let a 10-win coach walk away unless you have a hotter date lined up. Same reason we haven't fired him this year. Are/were there some good coaches that could? Maybe, but that was a gamble the higher-ups didn't want to take.

But also consider that just because you were right about Malzahn, doesnt mean that all the other alternatives would produce positive results. That's too volatile of a market.

[oracle79 3,569]

59 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

You are correct. I was generalizing when I said "everybody"... maybe more like a 90/10 split.

Actually if you look at his post, the vote indicates it was 53% for the extension and 47% against it. But, I know you aren't changing your mind, just felt like it should be pointed out though.

[AURealist 2,185]

1 hour ago, JBiGGiE said:

You are correct. I was generalizing when I said "everybody"... maybe more like a 90/10 split.

But I stand by the statement that the contract extension was a smart move in the moment. Auburn had just come off a November hot streak topping the number 1 team in the nation twice, and playing for a conference title and playoff berth. The alternative to retaining Malzahn was A) the embarrassment of letting a 10-win coach leave for a 4-win Arkansas team that was going to be a total rebuild. Malzahn at Arkansas could tank a couple bad years because of the nature of the rebuild, however if Auburn goes 7-5 (as we did this year) under a new coach, all of our problems get deflected back on how we shouldn't have let Malzahn go. C) You run the risk of letting Arkansas surpass you because you didn't retain your 10-win coach. D) Lastly the pool of replacement coaches was pretty shallow last year. You don't let a 10-win coach walk away unless you have a hotter date lined up. Same reason we haven't fired him this year. Are/were there some good coaches that could? Maybe, but that was a gamble the higher-ups didn't want to take.

But also consider that just because you were right about Malzahn, doesnt mean that all the other alternatives would produce positive results. That's too volatile of a market.

Your 'reasons' are addressed in that previous thread.

(A)  Who cares about what other people might have thought?   In the end, we'd look smart for not giving into extortion.

(B)  Gus would never have amounted to anything at Arkansas and in the end, again, we'd look smart.  

(C)  See (B)

(D)  Letting extortionists walk is always smart at any time during the season.  At the end of the season is when you review accomplishments and discuss money.  Good coaches are rarely on the hot seat, so the pool of available coaches is always practically the same year to year.  In other news, totally unrelated to this thread, Kendall Briles just signed a major contract upgrade with Houston and yet is said to be on Tennessee's short list for OC at this very moment.  

In my posts in that previous thread, I even offered a compromise.  Revisit his contract after the SECC game, I said.  But nope.  That was asking too much.  

Opinions differ and I'm not going to convince you or the Gus Busters of anything, then or now, but let's not rewrite the history of this debacle.  We screwed that up and we're screwing up now because we're run by fools.   

[PigskinPat 2,568]

35 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

Actually if you look at his post, the vote indicates it was 53% for the extension and 47% against it. But, I know you aren't changing your mind, just felt like it should be pointed out though.

I would also add that those that voted to extend his contract had no idea how ridiculous the final contract ended up being. 

[JGLEATON 1,244]

8 hours ago, PigskinPat said:

I would also add that those that voted to extend his contract had no idea how ridiculous the final contract ended up being. 

and then there's this ^^^

yea I think most that felt trying to retain him was fine, IF we were considering a reasonable salary / contract (after the season / SEC championship  / playoff)  or letting him walk... Even a very high salary would have been acceptable with a good contract based on incentives and less guaranteed money / crazy buyouts.

and BTW captain hindsight says that playing a bit more hardball / waiting on the contract WAS the right thing to have done at the time considering that NOW Gus called their bluff of actually trying to buy him out AND wanted to STAY even with all the chaos and fan animosity towards him AND was even willing to rework that same bad contract after the fact... just to stay... now...

Gus is gonna end up having to wear the Visor again and being the OC too now ala Spurrier ... and bring in some kinda QB coach to call in (relay) his plays for him / work with the QB's... 

which is all the OC's under him have really ever done say's captain Hindsite... so basically no change.

 

[doverstutts 1,643]

24 minutes ago, JGLEATON said:

I would also add that those that voted to extend his contract had no idea how ridiculous the final contract ended up being

this....as anti-malzahn as i am, i was okay for a raise and an extention......but when i saw the outrageous buyout, i was like ??????......i thought he might have turned the corner,then came the final two games....i actually thought this years team would win 9-10 games in spite of that....best case scenerio is that he can look in the mirror and see the problem, adjust and come out swinging...i don't see that happening at this stage of the game,though

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

To be honest we have to look back at what actually happened. At the time we had just beat #1 uga and uat. We had an SECC game coming up and a possibility of going to the CFP. A selfish coach usher by a jerk for an agent decided to put the knife to AUs throat . JJ was done and had no input and had he any knowing he was headed out he probably would not have done us any favors. Leath has no business whatsoever to be involved with something so far above his ability. RH was suckered in , like a lot of folks, to Gus’s good guy act, and really felt Gus was sincere about following through with his commitment to change. So with that he went forward and pushed for AU to make a deal with Gus. I’m not sure RH was aware of the buyout, and if he was he probably believed it would never be needed. My guess is The piece of trash Sexton snuck it in the contract and Leath failed to fully understand it or run it by someone more knowledgeable. So now RH feels somewhat committed to try and make it work. I think what he fails to understand is Gus doesn’t have the same commitment because he still believes his smartness will prevail. Also RH doesn’t understand exactly how much worse another year will make this problem. In the end RH maybe committing the end to his respect by AU if he follow through and this explodes. I think he honestly values he connection with his university and would hate to see this destroy that. My hope is he comes to understand that his faith in Gus will eventually destroy what he has spent many years developing.

[Rednilla 5,383]

6 hours ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

To be honest we have to look back at what actually happened. At the time we had just beat #1 uga and uat. We had an SECC game coming up and a possibility of going to the CFP. A selfish coach usher by a jerk for an agent decided to put the knife to AUs throat . JJ was done and had no input and had he any knowing he was headed out he probably would not have done us any favors. Leath has no business whatsoever to be involved with something so far above his ability. RH was suckered in , like a lot of folks, to Gus’s good guy act, and really felt Gus was sincere about following through with his commitment to change. So with that he went forward and pushed for AU to make a deal with Gus. I’m not sure RH was aware of the buyout, and if he was he probably believed it would never be needed. My guess is The piece of trash Sexton snuck it in the contract and Leath failed to fully understand it or run it by someone more knowledgeable. So now RH feels somewhat committed to try and make it work. I think what he fails to understand is Gus doesn’t have the same commitment because he still believes his smartness will prevail. Also RH doesn’t understand exactly how much worse another year will make this problem. In the end RH maybe committing the end to his respect by AU if he follow through and this explodes. I think he honestly values he connection with his university and would hate to see this destroy that. My hope is he comes to understand that his faith in Gus will eventually destroy what he has spent many years developing.

You seem awfully sure of yourself that nothing good will come out of the rest of Gus's tenure. What happens if Auburn goes 11-1 next year and then wins the SEC Championship and makes the Playoffs? Oh, well, I guess anything short of a national title is not good enough. It obviously wasn't in 2013, and none of the haters seem to give Malzahn any credit whatsoever for 2010.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

What makes you believe Gus will change? Yes I give Gus credit for 2013. That said Gus has regressed every year since then. He won’t improve unless he changes his attitude and he won’t do that because he thinks he is a genius. He came in with a new system that wasn’t  being done in college at the time. It worked for a few years. Defenses adjusted to it with leaner, quicker players. NCAA adjusted the time game and that hurt its ability too. Every since Gus has been lost trying to regain an advantage. He can’t because he always wants to go back to the old plan. Remember he is the guy wrote books and was hailed as the inventor of the HUNH. He just can’t let it go because he would lose his pace in history . Sad to see an old man crumble like Gus is doing. He would do better to protect his past to just take the money and walk way from the game and be remembered for his few short years of success of being at least a small pain in NS’s butt anyway.

[around4ever 4,139]

1 hour ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

What makes you believe Gus will change? Yes I give Gus credit for 2013. That said Gus has regressed every year since then. He won’t improve unless he changes his attitude and he won’t do that because he thinks he is a genius. He came in with a new system that wasn’t  being done in college at the time. It worked for a few years. Defenses adjusted to it with leaner, quicker players. NCAA adjusted the time game and that hurt its ability too. Every since Gus has been lost trying to regain an advantage. He can’t because he always wants to go back to the old plan. Remember he is the guy wrote books and was hailed as the inventor of the HUNH. He just can’t let it go because he would lose his pace in history . Sad to see an old man crumble like Gus is doing. He would do better to protect his past to just take the money and walk way from the game and be remembered for his few short years of success of being at least a small pain in NS’s butt anyway.

Seriously?  I give more credit to Marshall, Mason, Lutz, Davis, etc.  IMO Gus kept us from going undefeated and winning the BCSNC. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

6 minutes ago, around4ever said:

Seriously?  I give more credit to Marshall, Mason, Lutz, Davis, etc.  IMO Gus kept us from going undefeated and winning the BCSNC. 

Lutz?

[around4ever 4,139]

7 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Lutz?

Threw that in to see if y'all were paying attention. 

[Guest lurtz]

8 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Lutz?

Pretty sure he means me.

[Guest lurtz]

22 hours ago, JGLEATON said:

and BTW captain hindsight says that playing a bit more hardball / waiting on the contract WAS the right thing to have done at the time considering that NOW Gus called their bluff of actually trying to buy him out AND wanted to STAY even with all the chaos and fan animosity towards him AND was even willing to rework that same bad contract after the fact... just to stay... now...

Good thing we don't have to take Captain Hindsight's word for it.  We can go back to the thread on the front page of this forum and see that almost 47% of the poll respondents wanted no extension for Malzahn THEN (November-December 2017), which logically means playing hardball, letting him go back to Arkansas if that was his choice, and delaying negotiations 'til the end of the season or until hell froze over. We can also read the comments there and see that a lot of our folks were worried we were going to get exactly what we got. Pretending that there weren't a lot of clear thinkers on the subject of Gus' contract way before this season just doesn't wash. 

But the point isn't to win the "I told you so" battle, says Capt. Hindsight.  The point is that if the posters on a humble internet football forum could look at Gus' record here and know to avoid this mess, the PTB at AU should have been able to as well. That's what we are entrusting (and paying) them to do.

which is all the OC's under him have really ever done say's captain Hindsite... so basically no change.

Yeah, nobody in their right mind is going to predict that a HC is going to make his OC and position coaches redundant until they've actually seen him do it, so this kind of observation pretty much had to be made after the fact. Even so, there have been complaints about how Gus uses, or chooses not to use, his OC at least since 2015.