The State of the program

[homersapien 11,352]

On 12/8/2018 at 5:09 AM, countoff said:

I actually think what is happening (though very painful now) will be for the best in the long run.

After years of knee jerk reactions by Auburn and Jabobs, the truly talented head coaches would not come any where near this place.  Sticking a couple of years with Gus will show potential HC that the new Auburn leadership will no longer overreact to a bad season.  Plus it burns off some of Gus' contract.  

In the meantime, we can watch the coaching landscape for an upcoming star and the Auburn fan base can spend a few years toning down the expectations they would place on a new HC. By the time a new HC comes along, Auburn fans will be thrilled with a 6-6 season because they see improvement.  The next year 8-4, next 10-2, and so on.  If I remember correctly, this was exactly the atmosphere Saban walked into.

I'm guessing 5-7 years before Auburn is back to prominence.  A painful journey.... but it will simply take time to unravel this mess.

I think that's a well-reasoned post.

But damn.  Some of us are starting to run out of time.

[nixtosanders94 2,180]

1 hour ago, ChltteTiger said:

half ass job in 2019 likely means Gus is gone. Period.

Yeah if this thing goes off the rails in the first half of the season, and it very well could, then I think they pull the trigger then. 

As an aside, can we put to bed the narrative that Auburn changes coaches too much and too quickly.  Dye was there 12 years and wasn’t fired because we were tired of him, Bowden had 5 years and part of a 6th and wasn’t fired because we were tired of him, Tubs had 10 years and was just as tired of Auburn as some in Auburn were of him and Chiz wrote his own ending with the internal issues going on in the program and an inexcusable 0-8 in SEC play.  So here we are now after 6 years of Gus and he’s averaging 4 losses a year on top of losing games he has no business losing and looking horrid on the side of the ball he is supposed to be a guru at.  What does one expect from a fanbase and alumni that cherish this football program?  

[AUwent 3,747]

On 12/8/2018 at 11:03 PM, jAUSon said:

Nah man. We're stuck with the coach. Might as well relax, make the most of it. Don't need boosters flexing futility out in the open like blowhards, or clickbaiters like Moon starting street riots with the tiniest little well-aimed bits of pseudo-facts. Piss on all of them. When we all relax (support for CGM notwithstanding), Auburn can be the desirable coaching/playing spot that it should be. Let's just be a bad team for a minute and dispense with the chaos. Our time will come to fruition closer to the other end of this contract. Maybe we'll have healed by then. And maybe some outside parameters will have improved to boot. Then it's home-run time. 

If we were to do this, do you know how far down the hole we would be?

Leath would undoubtedly deserve a firing in this scenario (I mean, he already does).

Gus is being paid $7 MILLION A YEAR. We gave him a ridiculously huge contract extension. And how did he repay our generosity? By throwing it up in our faces. Making a lazy, lazy, LAZY hire on the OL. Losing to one of the worst teams in CFB AT HOME. Accidentally burning the redshirt of a potential-loaded running back, causing him to transfer. And after all that,  we're allowing him to stay another year. All while our recruiting at OL and RB tanks.

All the signs are pointing to 6-6 at best next year. Given all of that, would canning his @$$ the Monday morning after next year's IB really look unjustified to prospective coaches?

[nixtosanders94 2,180]

4 minutes ago, AUwent said:

If we were to do this, do you know how far down the hole we would be?

Leath would undoubtedly deserve a firing in this scenario (I mean, he already does).

Gus is being paid $7 MILLION A YEAR. We gave him a ridiculously huge contract extension. And how did he repay our generosity? By throwing it up in our faces. Making a lazy, lazy, LAZY hire on the OL. Losing to one of the worst teams in CFB AT HOME. Accidentally burning the redshirt of a potential-loaded running back, causing him to transfer. And after all that,  we're allowing him to stay another year. All while our recruiting at OL and RB tanks.

All the signs are pointing to 6-6 at best next year. Given all of that, would canning his @$$ the Monday morning after next year's IB really look unjustified to prospective coaches?

Great points. And to answer your final question the answer is no it wouldn’t. Coaches talk and they know when someone is in over their head at a program. I feel like they know Gus is struggling and the criticism he is recieving is justified. I think some on here confuse fans wanting change when things go bad with meddling by boosters. Meddling boosters has been going on at Auburn forever and at most major programs. That is the part that might scare a HC candidate but again find a major program where this does’nt go on. bama may be the exception right now with adolf saban but i guarantee there are still boosters who matter over there with influence.  The fans being fickle shouldn’t and probably does’nt enter the equation. Most fan bases are fickle. Happy when you win, pissed when you lose. Auburn is no different. Two things I have seen on here that I believe are not true...the “a good HC won’t come here because our fans are always angry” argument and the “it will take AU a while to recover from this” argument. Look at our worst years and see what usually happens the next year or two? Auburn has the talent and the recruiting, we just need the right guy at the helm. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

38 minutes ago, nixtosanders94 said:

As an aside, can we put to bed the narrative that Auburn changes coaches too much and too quickly.

Amen. 

UF hired and fired Muschamp and McElwain in the time it took us to decide that Gus wasn't fit for the job but begrudgingly keep him anyway. Now they've got Mullen, they're performing, and nobody has a thing to say about it. 

 

[GwillMac6 20,603]

The state of the program is about to be really bad. What is the most important position group on the football team? OL. What is our weakest position group? OL. We are about to be FSU for a few years where we may be talented at a lot of positions but it does not matter when your OL is not very good and talented. And Gus is doing a terrible job this cycle of rectifying the problem he created. BO is going to be running for his life during his time at AU and it is not his fault at all. OL is the position where you can see how far away we are from Georgia and Bama. They get stud after stud and we have swung and missed this whole cycle besides K Jones.

[AUwent 3,747]

44 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

The state of the program is about to be really bad. What is the most important position group on the football team? OL. What is our weakest position group? OL. We are about to be FSU for a few years where we may be talented at a lot of positions but it does not matter when your OL is not very good and talented. And Gus is doing a terrible job this cycle of rectifying the problem he created. BO is going to be running for his life during his time at AU and it is not his fault at all. OL is the position where you can see how far away we are from Georgia and Bama. They get stud after stud and we have swung and missed this whole cycle besides K Jones.

And this is why we ABSOLUTELY CANNOT afford to keep him beyond next year! Words cannot describe what a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE (re-)hire Grimes was.

Also, we NEED to have at least two underclassmen starting on the line next year, so that we don't have this same level of inexperience in 2020.

I think everyone here knows who my top pick is to replace him, vague innuendo be damned.

[thrustmaxwell 413]

The people that are still arguing that it's somehow AU's fault that Gus is a mediocre coach, or that if we'd only let him set more money on fire we'd be incredible under Gus should go KYS.  It's the only way AU can move forward.

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 hour ago, thrustmaxwell said:

The people that are still arguing that it's somehow AU's fault that Gus is a mediocre coach, or that if we'd only let him set more money on fire we'd be incredible under Gus should go KYS.  It's the only way AU can move forward.

I know you don't mean it literally, and I'm not in disagreement with the underlying point of your post, but let's not suggest that people do what you are suggesting. Many of us have lost close family members or friends that way, and it's not something that should be taken lightly.

[GwillMac6 20,603]

1 minute ago, AUwent said:

KYS? Really? I agree that it's a bad point, but come on.

Random, but Jay Coulter posted a really terrifying article on TET--"Tennessee" is mentioned. I would like to think our boosters would never allow us to drop to that level, but the article argues that they ARE the reason for our troubles.

They absolutely would. What have they honestly done to actively prevent us from dropping to that level? Look at our last 2 hires. Lazy and unimaginative. Hiring a 5-19 coach is downright the most embarrassing thing the athletic department has ever done. It is a freaking joke. And of course in the most AWWBARN thing ever he won a natty!!! lol and then was fired 2 years later. SO AUBURN!!! We are a constant dysfunctional mess with extreme highs and lows. They keep kicking the can down the road on very very much needed necessary upgrades to Jordan Hare and a new football only facility.  Like we have said before on here Auburn has been great IN SPITE of itself. It feels sometimes we do everything possible to not be great. Boosters rather have control with a yes man than have a great program. Next hire I want to hire the best possible person for the job who will say yes. NOT SOMEONE WHO HAS AUBURN TIES. For goodness sakes. Someone who played here or coached here should not be a requirement to be the next head coach. We have just got lucky we have had some really special years to negate the fact that we have had some absolutely dismal years that are right on par with us being like UT.

[doverstutts 1,643]

coach goofus has one more year to fix it and i expect the pressure to get to him and nothing will change due to his bouts with anxiety.......if we don't go to a 50/50 run/pass ratio or a RPO type offense, we are looking at a max 6 wins next year....this offense will have to score and win games because of the losses coming on defense

[PoetTiger 1,896]

5 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Amen. 

UF hired and fired Muschamp and McElwain in the time it took us to decide that Gus wasn't fit for the job but begrudgingly keep him anyway. Now they've got Mullen, they're performing, and nobody has a thing to say about it. 

 

Firing was not the problem they had just cause for both. It was the hiring mistakes they made I never liked either of the hires. I think some are nervous about the potential round about of coaches when Auburn moves on from Gus after this season. 

[AUwent 3,747]

1 hour ago, PoetTiger said:

Firing was not the problem they had just cause for both. It was the hiring mistakes they made I never liked either of the hires. I think some are nervous about the potential round about of coaches when Auburn moves on from Gus after this season. 

Coaching carousels like the one in 2017 (Frost on the market, Kiffin looking really good) are more the exception than the rule. My overwhelming choice is Brent Venables. IDGAF about whatever innuendo some idiot on SECRant or TheBunker may have posted at some point or another.

And yeah, though our facilities aren't by any means bad, we need a football-only facility, something that ol' Crooked Teeth may have cost us. The Aubie Tron was an extraordinarily stupid idea on JJ's part, as well.

[AUwent 3,747]

One more thing, will the official figure on how much his buyout now is be released?

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 hours ago, Barnacle said:

I know you don't mean it literally, and I'm not in disagreement with the underlying point of your post, but let's not suggest that people do what you are suggesting. Many of us have lost close family members or friends that way, and it's not something that should be taken lightly.

Agreed.

Love ya thrust and most of us really do have a sense of humor, but that one didn't land. 

[countoff 331]

On 12/8/2018 at 7:09 AM, countoff said:

I actually think what is happening (though very painful now) will be for the best in the long run.

After years of knee jerk reactions by Auburn and Jabobs, the truly talented head coaches would not come any where near this place.  Sticking a couple of years with Gus will show potential HC that the new Auburn leadership will no longer overreact to a bad season.  Plus it burns off some of Gus' contract.  

In the meantime, we can watch the coaching landscape for an upcoming star and the Auburn fan base can spend a few years toning down the expectations they would place on a new HC. By the time a new HC comes along, Auburn fans will be thrilled with a 6-6 season because they see improvement.  The next year 8-4, next 10-2, and so on.  If I remember correctly, this was exactly the atmosphere Saban walked into.

I'm guessing 5-7 years before Auburn is back to prominence.  A painful journey.... but it will simply take time to unravel this mess.

 

On 12/8/2018 at 10:18 AM, gr82be said:

Please feel free to post less. 😁

 

On 12/8/2018 at 10:23 AM, AURealist said:

 

[norcuron 35]

Baby, I hope so!  It doesn't seem to be our pattern. Seems the teams Work Ethic follows the coach's work ethic. When Gus has got 30 mill in the bank why should he worry? I hate to say it but the guy across the state don't seem to sleep and his team feeds off of it.

 

[norcuron 35]

Auburn is a top tier job in the top tier SEC . We raised a Billion freakin dollars!  I'm ok with giving Gus a swingers chance at a home run next year. ( not likely happening) If he can not provide he needs a pink slip. If he is a real man he should just quit.

 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

On 12/10/2018 at 2:25 PM, nixtosanders94 said:

Great points. And to answer your final question the answer is no it wouldn’t. Coaches talk and they know when someone is in over their head at a program. I feel like they know Gus is struggling and the criticism he is recieving is justified. I think some on here confuse fans wanting change when things go bad with meddling by boosters. Meddling boosters has been going on at Auburn forever and at most major programs. That is the part that might scare a HC candidate but again find a major program where this does’nt go on. bama may be the exception right now with adolf saban but i guarantee there are still boosters who matter over there with influence.  The fans being fickle shouldn’t and probably does’nt enter the equation. Most fan bases are fickle. Happy when you win, pissed when you lose. Auburn is no different. Two things I have seen on here that I believe are not true...the “a good HC won’t come here because our fans are always angry” argument and the “it will take AU a while to recover from this” argument. Look at our worst years and see what usually happens the next year or two? Auburn has the talent and the recruiting, we just need the right guy at the helm. 

Friend of mine is a EXD1 player for power 5 and still has connections and friends in the coaching ranks. They do talk.

Gus getting a job too big for him too early is a legit discussion.

While meddling by boosters does occur everywhere, you are heavily underestimating the reputation of ours vs 99% of programs out there. Why you got Chizik vs Patterson I'm told.

You also, and people will hate this, forget what is going on at Georgia/Alabama right now. There are coaches that will tell you that Auburn isn't either of those programs and job security being tied into beating them with where they are at right now isn't very attractive.

[oracle79 3,569]

11 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

You also, and people will hate this, forget what is going on at Georgia/Alabama right now. There are coaches that will tell you that Auburn isn't either of those programs and job security being tied into beating them with where they are at right now isn't very attractive.

That's actually a good thing.  Weeds out the *******.  Don't want a coach here that's afraid of playing our main rivals.

[AURealist 2,185]

On 12/13/2018 at 6:56 AM, countoff said:

 

 

If you seriously think 6-6, 7-5, and 8-4 seasons will be good for Auburn and Auburn fans, then keeping Gus is definitely your best bet.  

[AUsince72 11,084]

11 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

You also, and people will hate this, forget what is going on at Georgia/Alabama right now. There are coaches that will tell you that Auburn isn't either of those programs and job security being tied into beating them with where they are at right now isn't very attractive.

Curious about this section of your post.

What do they mean?

Okay, I can buy that AU ain't bammer... With Bahr's legacy, Saban's black book & the REC, sure.  Comparing to them is ridiculous.

But not Georgia?  Simply meaning "right now, since Bowlcut's borrowing Saban's black book" or "in general"?  I'd contend thUga ain't no better a program than Auburn...AU's just going through a rough patch right now.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

2 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Curious about this section of your post.

What do they mean?

Okay, I can buy that AU ain't bammer... With Bahr's legacy, Saban's black book & the REC, sure.  Comparing to them is ridiculous.

But not Georgia?  Simply meaning "right now, since Bowlcut's borrowing Saban's black book" or "in general"?  I'd contend thUga ain't no better a program than Auburn...AU's just going through a rough patch right now.

I'll ask next time we go to lunch for a deeper explanation. One of course is that both those schools are the "state" school and the advantages in favors,support, resources that come with that.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

2 hours ago, oracle79 said:

That's actually a good thing.  Weeds out the *******.  Don't want a coach here that's afraid of playing our main rivals.

Except you have to put paragraph 3 and 4 together for the proper context.

[oracle79 3,569]

21 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Except you have to put paragraph 3 and 4 together for the proper context.

Assuming you're referring to the meddling by the POTB, that's along the same lines.  That's something you establish overtime with your win/loss record. I'll guarantee that Saban and Urban and Dabo had to put up with it until they started winning big and winning titles.  I'll bet they don't take much crap now.  I want a coach that can perform at the level to be able to put those folks where they need to be.  Dealing with those types of people is just another aspect of being a successful head coach.