Softball Transfer Rules/Oregon Ducks

[slot canyon 1,328]

The new transfer rules which took effect Oct. 15 this year are causing a bit of havoc; especially for the Oregon Ducks and their new coach Missy Lombardi.  For those not familiar, a player is now allowed to give written notice to the current school of their desire to transfer.  The school must put the player name in a national transfer database within two business days and at that point the player can contact other schools and likewise schools can contact the player.  I believe there is a "sit out" restriction on any transfer within your conference, otherwise the player can play during the next season.  Apparently, there will be legislation introduced at the next NCAA meeting that would result in sitting out the next season if a player submitted a transfer request after fall ball.  Many recall that Mike White departed Oregon for Texas and Missy Lombardi was hired from her long time position as an assistant and pitcher/catcher coach at Oklahoma.  Six significant players have departed from Oregon and three of those have transferred to Texas to play for Mike White.  Oregon has lost their two best pitchers and have a single pitcher now on their roster which is  down to 13 players as of today.  No official article on what is the root of the departures but some forum fodder hints at some sort of "culture changes" the new coach enacted .  All of this drastically changes the complexion of the PAC-12 for the 2019 season.  Oregon is on our schedule March 1 at the Judi Garman Classic. Bet it would be interesting to have a beer with the new UAB coach Jimmy K. 

[OlderWhiskey 953]

Actually, I believe the Ducks still have two pitchers in Megan Kleist and Maggie Balint.  Still, significant damage has been done.  In the SEC, Texas A&M has lost 5 players , including Samantha Show, Sarah Hudek, and Keeli Milligan.  Show went to OK State, while Milligan and Hudek transferred to ULL.  I believe a pitcher named McGrandle also transferred out, while Kaitlyn Alderink, a 3-year starter, simply hung up her cleats.

Kendyl Lindaman, a catcher and slugger for Minnesota, has transferred to Florida.  She had 20+ homers last season.  As if Florida really needed any help.  Of course, we also pick up the Gators again this year.

OOPS!  My bad.  Just read that Kleist is also transferring from Oregon.  She was only the PAC-12 Pitcher of the Year.

 

 

[saminbama 740]

WOW.  Glad that rule wasn't in effect when Coach Dean was hired.  This means Texas should be pretty strong this year.  Combine Lombardi leaving OU with Texas picking up a new coach and some of his players, the Big 12 will be interesting next year.

[OlderWhiskey 953]

Good observation.  And Show going to OK State will be a boost for them, as she swings a pretty good bat as well as being a good pitcher.

[Mikey 16,550]

On 12/8/2018 at 10:17 AM, slot canyon said:

I believe there is a "sit out" restriction on any transfer within your conference, otherwise the player can play during the next season.

I think this is a recipe for disaster. This way, any coach leaving a school will try to take his 10 best players with him. Want instant success in softball? Just hire away a coach that has recruited extremely well. Hopefully, the PTB will re-think this folly.

[OlderWhiskey 953]

Continuing that thought, some are now calling Texas the U. of Oregon at Austin.  However, this notion presupposes that the player has more loyalty to the coach than to the school - not always the case.  As Slot noted, Coach Lombardi likely precipitated the exodus from Oregon by her own tactics; same story at A&M, although the head coach didn't leave.  Note that Megan Good has chosen to finish at James Madison rather than follow Dean to Auburn.  Some girls want to play closer to home, to make it more convenient for their family to see them.

Players could always request to transfer, and these requests were normally honored, Carlee Wallace being an example.  Coaches were not required to grant releases, though, and in some cases involving star players, coaches would resist granting the release, forcing the player to sit out a year.  The NCAA apparently sees this as a form of athlete slavery, and has acted to change it.  We'll see where it goes.

Perhaps Mikey's scenario will play out, but I really don't think so.  What I do see as a result is that it will tend to funnel top-quality talent to teams that are already top tier, perpetuating their dynasties.  A girl that was maybe overlooked in high school or develops late may realize that she is now a top talent playing for a team that has a very small chance of making it to OKC.  If that's important to her, she will request a transfer and go to a team like Florida or Oklahoma that gets there every year.  But maybe that's the way it ought to be.  

[slot canyon 1,328]

Yes, the current rules appear to have had some unintended consequences with players not committing to the school but rather to the coach/softball program.  Something I could envision is a player who either is a bit of a late bloomer or for some reason overlooked who commits to a lower tier program and show high skill level at that program.  It is natural for a lot of these players to want to go to high profile programs and have a chance to play in WCWS.  They can basically become free agents and transfer.  I suppose your feelings about this depends if you are the gainer or looser in this transaction.  As they say, what goes around, comes around.  

addendum: funny Whiskey, I was about to post the above when I got notice of your post.  Were you looking over my shoulder?😃

[slot canyon 1,328]

A somewhat related side note. I went back and looked at a YOUTUBE interview with CMD when he first arrived and someone asked him if he would consider talking to Megan Good about playing at AU. I was impressed with his answer when he said that it would not be fair to either program. I don't think he intended to pilfer any of the current players at that time but he has reached out and committed some recruits who were previously committed to JMU. I have no way of actually knowing but get the feeling that Coach White gets a lot of enjoyment out of getting some of the best Oregon transfers.

[OlderWhiskey 953]

I note on Flosoftball that Kleist has signed up with Louisiana, aka ULL.  They also picked up Hudek and Milligan from A&M.  This could be the year they knock LSU out.

[AUBwins 10,064]

2 hours ago, OlderWhiskey said:

I note on Flosoftball that Kleist has signed up with Louisiana, aka ULL.  They also picked up Hudek and Milligan from A&M.  This could be the year they knock LSU out.

I didn't figure it would take long for the ULL women to get back to the top.  They love their softball here in Lafayette. 

[slot canyon 1,328]

Just a quick glance at the ULL roster and it appears something in the vicinity of 12 of their players are transfers from other programs or came from junior college.

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, slot canyon said:

Just a quick glance at the ULL roster and it appears something in the vicinity of 12 of their players are transfers from other programs or came from junior college.

JMO but that's a good way to do things. Considering the few scholarships are available.....and how few HS grads are ready to step in and play top level college softball, maybe it's not a bad idea to have them mature on someone else's dime, see which ones are more ready to play after another season.....and then work to bring them in.    I'm of the view that it is not a good idea to spend a scarce scholarship on a freshman unless you are almost dead certain she can play her first year.

[AUBwins 10,064]

1 hour ago, slot canyon said:

Just a quick glance at the ULL roster and it appears something in the vicinity of 12 of their players are transfers from other programs or came from junior college.

If you recall, they lost a good bit of players when Lotief left. Some graduated, and few others transferred.  Here is an article before Glasco first season.

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theadvocate.com/acadiana/sports/ul_lafayette/article_5fa2ed84-092f-11e8-befd-477d3d57ef88.amp.html

[OlderWhiskey 953]

Interesting thought.  I've really followed Auburn softball only since 2015.  In that time frame, only about one freshman per year has been a starter:  Martin, Carlee Wallace, Rivera, Taylon Snow.  Neither Wallace nor Rivera started immediately, but got  there by mid-season.

[slot canyon 1,328]

6 hours ago, OlderWhiskey said:

Interesting thought.  I've really followed Auburn softball only since 2015.  In that time frame, only about one freshman per year has been a starter:  Martin, Carlee Wallace, Rivera, Taylon Snow.  Neither Wallace nor Rivera started immediately, but got  there by mid-season.

I'll have to relate a funny story.   Like yourself, 2015 was my initial introduction to AU softball.  My wife and I were aware of how the team had improved and saw a couple of games on TV.  We decided to attend one of the fall games in 2015.  We were not really familiar with any of the players or newcomers.  All of a sudden this short gal came out with catchers gear on and got down behind the plate.  I nudged my wife and said "Isn't it nice that they are going to let that short girl get in some reps at catcher"......little did I know who I was looking at.  Also, I must admit that seeing the action in real time took me by surprise.  Even during warm ups the fielding and throwing was impressive for a first time attendee and I told my wife "gosh, these girls are really athletic".  We have been followers ever since.  Wish we lived closer to Auburn so could attend more games.  

[4WDE 89]

On 12/15/2018 at 8:49 AM, OlderWhiskey said:

Interesting thought.  I've really followed Auburn softball only since 2015.  In that time frame, only about one freshman per year has been a starter:  Martin, Carlee Wallace, Rivera, Taylon Snow.  Neither Wallace nor Rivera started immediately, but got  there by mid-season.

Shea also shared time with Wallace as both started as freshman. Crocker started some (>10 games) and Greenwood started some too (>20 games) as freshman.  Not many freshman come in and get on the field a ton.   

[OlderWhiskey 953]

Just noticed that Alyssa Pinto, an Oregon transfer that I mentioned in another thread, has signed with Ole Miss.

[slot canyon 1,328]

I suppose the only Duck transfer who has not announced a new team is Mary Iakopo, the soph. catcher.  The exodus from Oregon has been a strange situation. Have seen some rumors but no published documentation. 

[slot canyon 1,328]

Noticed Iakopo  ended up at Texas this last week.  Rumor (internet) was she was also looking at AU and Alabama.  There was a photo of her visit to Alabama.  If you were a young player trying to work your way up in the line up bringing in a transfer could probably cause some hard feelings.  I realize playing time is earned through competition and the coach is charged with putting forward the best team possible.

[OlderWhiskey 953]

Thanks for the update.   Things are just ducky in Austin.

[4WDE 89]

Had a chance to catch up with some in the industry that were in favor of the “fairness” of the new transfer rule changes. Needless to say, they said they did not expect it to be exploited and used as it has been.  They said expect changes and the ball was already rolling on discussions on the best ways to update it.  Free agency was not the intention, especially during the school year. Careful with Pandora’s box.

[AU64 10,122]

14 hours ago, 4WDE said:

Had a chance to catch up with some in the industry that were in favor of the “fairness” of the new transfer rule changes. Needless to say, they said they did not expect it to be exploited and used as it has been.  They said expect changes and the ball was already rolling on discussions on the best ways to update it.  Free agency was not the intention, especially during the school year. Careful with Pandora’s box.

JMO but the poor scholarship situation is a big problem.  Some player on a quarter scholarship all of a sudden has a chance for a full scholly...or even a half at a good school?   ought not to keep her bound too tight.  

If a school wants to keep a key player, give her a full scholly but IMO any player with a half or less should be free to leave any time she completes a season.

[saminbama 740]

I have always been shocked by the few scholarships allowed for baseball and softball.  There should be at least 10 for position players and 2 or 3 for pitchers.  I agree that any player on half or less should be allowed to transfer one time per school year.

[slot canyon 1,328]

a bit off topic but I believe I read an article about Kasey Cooper signing with AU for a very small scholarship so she could have an official signing day picture and announcement. She had been a long time Bama fan but did not get much attention from their staff nor was she heavily recruited. Of course, I suspect she got a full academic scholarship. Would be interesting to have an idea of ho the allowed 12 scholarships are allotted.

[4WDE 89]

Again, that flirts with free agency. If you don't like the amount or percentage offer you get from a school, then don't take it.  Coaches have a challenge too in planning and balancing a roster with their allowed scholarships.  Allowing transfers in the middle of the school year is crazy. Still shocking the smaller schools actually voted this change through (for those that actually voted). Very few transfers take less, unless going to a WS contender....aka Yankees.  Most of the coaches (well Power 5) would prefer being head count vs an equivalency to not have to deal with it...but again that is advantage Power 5.  Most coaches reward those who perform at high levels by increasing their money (if not already high/full)...aka Cooper.  Imagine of Murphy would have swooped in an got Cooper, AU fans would have been livid.  At some point, there has to be a sense of commitment to the school offering you the scholarship and fulfilling that commitment.  An exception to sitting would only with coaching changes.  

There is no forumula per se on how they divide it.  Every school/coach is different in how they prefer to manage the "salary cap".