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re-evaluate how unclutch Gus has been


Dual-Threat Rigby

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Spoiler: I only started watching full-time in 2009

I was going through the '07 season when someone referenced LSU's run in 2007 and I had watched the tiger bowl that year a few years back, and that seemed like a pretty respectable loss (coverage on that play was sketchy but that was a beautiful throw by Flynn). I had incorrectly stated that was the difference between us and LSU and we would've been golden for a natty appearance, with avoiding UGA in the conf title. But then I realized we had three losses aside from that game, one coming to unranked MSU....why did we lose to them? at home? Sylvester Croom as HC? 

anyway, I went from that to look at the previous '06 season, where a highly favored Auburn team (that did win against the transcendent Urban Gators and a top 3 LSU team) got blown out by Nutt and Gus at home (while they're unranked) as well as an unranked UGA team where they gave up 28 straight points....I was always told Tuberville won the ones he was supposed to, but all he had to do was split one of those two to hopefully beat Tebow again in the SEC CG

 

maybe Gus isn't the worst we've had this millenium? IDK 

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7 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Spoiler: I only started watching full-time in 2009

I was going through the '07 season when someone referenced LSU's run in 2007 and I had watched the tiger bowl that year a few years back, and that seemed like a pretty respectable loss (coverage on that play was sketchy but that was a beautiful throw by Flynn). I had incorrectly stated that was the difference between us and LSU and we would've been golden for a natty appearance, with avoiding UGA in the conf title. But then I realized we had three losses aside from that game, one coming to unranked MSU....why did we lose to them? at home? Sylvester Croom as HC? 

anyway, I went from that to look at the previous '06 season, where a highly favored Auburn team (that did win against the transcendent Urban Gators and a top 3 LSU team) got blown out by Nutt and Gus at home (while they're unranked) as well as an unranked UGA team where they gave up 28 straight points....I was always told Tuberville won the ones he was supposed to, but all he had to do was split one of those two to hopefully beat Tebow again in the SEC CG

 

maybe Gus isn't the worst we've had this millenium? IDK 

Who told you that about Tubs? It was the opposite. He won the ones he should not of won and lost the ones he should of won. There was never a better big game coach AT AU than Tubs. Unfortunately he lost to mediocre Arkansas and Georgia teams too much.

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This is all fine but Gus is making top 5 pay. I am going to have to see much better than 7-5. I would expect the same from TT if he was making top 5 pay.

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To add, if Gus had went 9-3 this year I doubt majority of fans would have gnashing of the teeth going on at the moment. I don’t think anyone is asking this guy to win the SEC every year. 

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14 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Who told you that about Tubs? It was the opposite. He won the ones he should not of won and lost the ones he should of won. There was never a better big game coach AT AU than Tubs. Unfortunately he lost to mediocre Arkansas and Georgia teams too much.

It might've been my reading comprehension, someone could've been saying that in reference to Dye instead. either way, it feels to me that these losses are the ones that would stick to you just b/c you'd constantly end up comparing them to the quality of wins. Not saying I rather be a 7-8 win team who cant beat UA or MSU to a 9-10 win team that cant beat UGA or Arkansas, but that does suck because unlike Gus who ends up being like 2-3 games away from glory, Tubs would be like one

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You guys are also comparing AU vs Bama when they had Shula and Dubose.   I’m not a CGM fan, but he is having to play a team that is having an unprecedented run.    Also, He had to deal with Clemson how many times during their current run.    This doesn’t excuse the unexplained loses to Tennessee and Mississippi State.   But Come to think about it, I’m not sure I’ve been a fan of any of the picks since Dye.

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49 minutes ago, DAG said:

This is all fine but Gus is making top 5 pay. I am going to have to see much better than 7-5. I would expect the same from TT if he was making top 5 pay.

I will start this by saying I think almost all coaches in college football make too much. This was my fear when Alabama started tossing the money at Saban.

The problem with stating top 5 pay is that it is also the same going rate for a coach that has won a conference championship and appeared in the CFC Game in this league. Dan Mullen has done neither and tops 6 million. Not saying that it is right, but unfortunately it is the going rate for a HC with championships in a difficult and high stakes league.

Quote
  • No. 1– Nick Saban, Alabama ($8,307,000)
  • No. 4– Jimbo Fisher, Texas A&M ($7,500,000)
  • No. 5– Gus Malzahn, Auburn ($6,700,000)
  • No. 6– Kirby Smart, Georgia ($6,603,600)
  • No. 8– Dan Mullen, Florida ($6,070,000)
  • No. 21– Will Muschamp, South Carolina ($4,200,000)
  • No. 23– Mark Stoops, Kentucky ($4,000,000)
  • No. 25– Jeremy Pruitt, Tennessee ($3,846,000)
  • No. 36– Chad Morris, Arkansas ($3,500,000)
  • No. 37– Ed Orgeron, LSU ($3,500,000)
  • No. 44– Matt Luke, Ole Miss ($3,000,000)
  • No. 46– Derek Mason, Vanderbilt ($2,812,523)
  • No. 49– Joe Moorhead, Mississippi State ($2,600,000)
  • No. 56– Barry Odom, Missouri ($2,350,00)

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/where-sec-coaches-2018-salaries-rank-nationally/

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1 hour ago, GwillMac6 said:

Who told you that about Tubs? It was the opposite. He won the ones he should not of won and lost the ones he should of won. There was never a better big game coach AT AU than Tubs. Unfortunately he lost to mediocre Arkansas and Georgia teams too much.

Pretty sure I saw Fred Talley running down I35 on the way to work the other day. I doubt that dude has stopped running since that game.

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23 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Pretty sure I saw Fred Talley running down I35 on the way to work the other day. I doubt that dude has stopped running since that game.

He taunts me every arkansas and Auburn game week every year.  Runs by my window at home and work and is just high stepping the whole time! lol

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37 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

He taunts me every arkansas and Auburn game week every year.  Runs by my window at home and work and is just high stepping the whole time! lol

Pretty sure I saw him running on the beaches of Oregon. Running north towards Washington. 

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19 minutes ago, DAG said:

I don’t care what other coaches of other teams are doing . What I do know that my expectation as an Auburn fan is if you are making top 5 money, you need to produce much better results than 7-5. 

I could deal with 7-5 if it was a once in a while thing. But not with that being the average mark.

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52 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

I could deal with 7-5 if it was a once in a while thing. But not with that being the average mark.

I can’t . I don’t think auburn should ever be 7-5 UNLESS it’s a disastrous circumstances . E.G. crazy amounts of injuries or a complete rebuild kind of like the mass exodus we had after our NC year. Otherwise, we should very very rarely ever be 7-5 with the talent and resources we have.

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7 hours ago, DAG said:

To add, if Gus had went 9-3 this year I doubt majority of fans would have gnashing of the teeth going on at the moment. I don’t think anyone is asking this guy to win the SEC every year. 

To me,  the wins and losses are not as important as the way we look when we play.     I don't mind losing if we at least look competitive in the loss.  Yeah,  every coach has a game  or two every now and then that the team just falls apart,  but that is the norm for Gus teams.  When we get beat, we get our a$$es handed to us.  When we win,  we mostly just skate by.  Can anyone hear name more than 5 complete games a gus team has played?    Not if you are honest with yourself.  Name  6,  and go back and watch whatever games you pick.  It is a freaking chinese fire drill in almost every game. Sometimes the whole game looks like crap. Sometimes we pull it off.  Every now and then,  we win big,  but  80% (ish)  of the time,  it is a frustrating experience  to watch large chunks of the game look so bad.  (even if we eventually win the game.)

 

Dye teams looked competitive  and organised the majority of the time. .  TT's teams, with a few exceptions,  looked organised and competitive most of the time.   Like I said earlier,  EVERY coach has a game or two where the team looks unprepared. Every coach relies on a lucky break to win those games. Even st. nick's teams fall on their face every now and then.   Gus's teams seem to  rely on a pick six,  or kick six, etc way too often.  Gus' best plays are his broken plays where an athletic QB  runs like he is playing back yard football.  We fall on our face for most of the game,  and hope we can get lucky at the end and win.  Lately we have dug too deep of a hole to catch back up.

 

I just want to see Auburn playing "real"  football.   Looking like they know what they are doing on the field,  and be competitive most of the time. WIN or LOSE.   But with gus, it is the opposite.  The complete (not perfect,  but organised and prepared) game is rare.  WIN or LOSE.   

 

Been saying this for years.   It never changes even with new OCs.    A typical gus rundown of plays.    Decent play,  crap play- 3rd and 14.  Run up the middle,  punt.   Crap play , genius play,  crap play,  lucky play,  crap play , punt.   Crap play,  decent play,  dumb decision,  punt.  Crap play,  good play for a td.  Crap play,   Illegal procedure,  crap play,  3rd and long.   Pass behind the line for a loss.  PUNT.  Crap play , genius play, illegal formation,  panic play,  punt.  Average play,  Other team gets a penalty ... 1st down!!!!  Crap play, repete crap play,  repete crap play,  punt.   Stupid play,  decent play,  crap play punt.    Crap play lucky play,  good play,  decent play,  bomb for a td!!   Crap crap crap crap crap crap crap.  Lucky play TD.  Win or lose it is almost always the same. 

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Gus averags 4.5 losses per season, is 28-20 in SEC play & finna be 1-5 in bowl games. 

Under Gus, Auburn has finished ranked as such:

2013: 2 (thank you xCJG for he last great AU OL)
2014: 23
2015: NR
2016: 22
2017:  12
2018:  NR

 

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If you just started watching in 09. You have no idea how consistently bad our offenses were for decades. Gus hasn’t been consistently good but we’ve been exponentially better in the past 9 years than any previous stretch on offense. 

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5 hours ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

To me,  the wins and losses are not as important as the way we look when we play.     I don't mind losing if we at least look competitive in the loss.  Yeah,  every coach has a game  or two every now and then that the team just falls apart,  but that is the norm for Gus teams.  When we get beat, we get our a$$es handed to us.  When we win,  we mostly just skate by.  Can anyone hear name more than 5 complete games a gus team has played?    Not if you are honest with yourself.  Name  6,  and go back and watch whatever games you pick.  It is a freaking chinese fire drill in almost every game. Sometimes the whole game looks like crap. Sometimes we pull it off.  Every now and then,  we win big,  but  80% (ish)  of the time,  it is a frustrating experience  to watch large chunks of the game look so bad.  (even if we eventually win the game.)

 

Dye teams looked competitive  and organised the majority of the time. .  TT's teams, with a few exceptions,  looked organised and competitive most of the time.   Like I said earlier,  EVERY coach has a game or two where the team looks unprepared. Every coach relies on a lucky break to win those games. Even st. nick's teams fall on their face every now and then.   Gus's teams seem to  rely on a pick six,  or kick six, etc way too often.  Gus' best plays are his broken plays where an athletic QB  runs like he is playing back yard football.  We fall on our face for most of the game,  and hope we can get lucky at the end and win.  Lately we have dug too deep of a hole to catch back up.

 

I just want to see Auburn playing "real"  football.   Looking like they know what they are doing on the field,  and be competitive most of the time. WIN or LOSE.   But with gus, it is the opposite.  The complete (not perfect,  but organised and prepared) game is rare.  WIN or LOSE.   

 

Been saying this for years.   It never changes even with new OCs.    A typical gus rundown of plays.    Decent play,  crap play- 3rd and 14.  Run up the middle,  punt.   Crap play , genius play,  crap play,  lucky play,  crap play , punt.   Crap play,  decent play,  dumb decision,  punt.  Crap play,  good play for a td.  Crap play,   Illegal procedure,  crap play,  3rd and long.   Pass behind the line for a loss.  PUNT.  Crap play , genius play, illegal formation,  panic play,  punt.  Average play,  Other team gets a penalty ... 1st down!!!!  Crap play, repete crap play,  repete crap play,  punt.   Stupid play,  decent play,  crap play punt.    Crap play lucky play,  good play,  decent play,  bomb for a td!!   Crap crap crap crap crap crap crap.  Lucky play TD.  Win or lose it is almost always the same. 

Man I think you are remembering Tubs wrong. A ton of his losses were blowouts....2000 Florida twice, 01 Arkansas and Bama, 02 Arkansas, 03 like 4 games, 05 Wisconsin, 06 Arkansas and Uga, 07 Uga, 08 probably multiple games I dont recall. And many of those other games were not one possession games and we looked bad in them. I do agree on Dye though. Seems like there was a 4 year period from 86 to 89 where we only 7 games and only had maybe one loss was by more than one td.  That's what I want for Au now. 

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1 hour ago, alexava said:

If you just started watching in 09. You have no idea how consistently bad our offenses were for decades. Gus hasn’t been consistently good but we’ve been exponentially better in the past 9 years than any previous stretch on offense. 

The rules and the game changed a lot over the last few decades.  Gus set records with Chris friggin' Todd because Auburn had never truly tried opening up the offense before.

In no way can you try to make this apples to oranges comparison.  IMO, if Tony Franklin had been allowed to bring in a staff and run his offense he would've set all kinds of offensive records...because they really weren't a huge bar to pass.

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6 hours ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

To me,  the wins and losses are not as important as the way we look when we play.     I don't mind losing if we at least look competitive in the loss.  Yeah,  every coach has a game  or two every now and then that the team just falls apart,  but that is the norm for Gus teams.  When we get beat, we get our a$$es handed to us.  When we win,  we mostly just skate by.  Can anyone hear name more than 5 complete games a gus team has played?    Not if you are honest with yourself.  Name  6,  and go back and watch whatever games you pick.  It is a freaking chinese fire drill in almost every game. Sometimes the whole game looks like crap. Sometimes we pull it off.  Every now and then,  we win big,  but  80% (ish)  of the time,  it is a frustrating experience  to watch large chunks of the game look so bad.  (even if we eventually win the game.)

 

Dye teams looked competitive  and organised the majority of the time. .  TT's teams, with a few exceptions,  looked organised and competitive most of the time.   Like I said earlier,  EVERY coach has a game or two where the team looks unprepared. Every coach relies on a lucky break to win those games. Even st. nick's teams fall on their face every now and then.   Gus's teams seem to  rely on a pick six,  or kick six, etc way too often.  Gus' best plays are his broken plays where an athletic QB  runs like he is playing back yard football.  We fall on our face for most of the game,  and hope we can get lucky at the end and win.  Lately we have dug too deep of a hole to catch back up.

 

I just want to see Auburn playing "real"  football.   Looking like they know what they are doing on the field,  and be competitive most of the time. WIN or LOSE.   But with gus, it is the opposite.  The complete (not perfect,  but organised and prepared) game is rare.  WIN or LOSE.   

 

Been saying this for years.   It never changes even with new OCs.    A typical gus rundown of plays.    Decent play,  crap play- 3rd and 14.  Run up the middle,  punt.   Crap play , genius play,  crap play,  lucky play,  crap play , punt.   Crap play,  decent play,  dumb decision,  punt.  Crap play,  good play for a td.  Crap play,   Illegal procedure,  crap play,  3rd and long.   Pass behind the line for a loss.  PUNT.  Crap play , genius play, illegal formation,  panic play,  punt.  Average play,  Other team gets a penalty ... 1st down!!!!  Crap play, repete crap play,  repete crap play,  punt.   Stupid play,  decent play,  crap play punt.    Crap play lucky play,  good play,  decent play,  bomb for a td!!   Crap crap crap crap crap crap crap.  Lucky play TD.  Win or lose it is almost always the same. 

I told my Pops the other day that the Football Offices are solely occupied by mokeys fuggin' football bats 24/7.  Gus has put out the most disorganized, amateurish programs I've witnessed at Auburn going back to '84 or so.  I don't even want to think about how far off our S&C program and practice efficiency are compared to UA and UGA, hell even UF now that Mullen is there.  We do almost nothing for psychological training like other big time programs have really used to their benefit.

Gus is a neurotic, borderline AUtistic, Peter Principal beneficiary and has set AU back as a program for years to come.  The moment Bo Nix and whatever that WR's name is that keeps waffling sign papers Gus needs to be canned.

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4 minutes ago, thrustmaxwell said:

The rules and the game changed a lot over the last few decades.  Gus set records with Chris friggin' Todd because Auburn had never truly tried opening up the offense before.

In no way can you try to make this apples to oranges comparison.  IMO, if Tony Franklin had been allowed to bring in a staff and run his offense he would've set all kinds of offensive records...because they really weren't a huge bar to pass.

You proved my point. 

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14 hours ago, aubaseball said:

You guys are also comparing AU vs Bama when they had Shula and Dubose.   I’m not a CGM fan, but he is having to play a team that is having an unprecedented run.    Also, He had to deal with Clemson how many times during their current run.    This doesn’t excuse the unexplained loses to Tennessee and Mississippi State.   But Come to think about it, I’m not sure I’ve been a fan of any of the picks since Dye.

The biggest part of that is Clemson getting the recruits out of Ga that used to go AU.  With Tenn now recruiting better it is tougher sledding, good to see us go to the west this year  for some of the DL guys.  

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15 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I was always told Tuberville won the ones he was supposed to

Who told you this lie?  Tuberville built his team to take down juggernauts, like UF, but for some reason he would crap the bed once or twice a season against mediocre competition.  And there were the "preseason" games where we would come out looking completely unprepared and unable to adjust to the simplest of schemes.  Sometimes the OL had no answer to twists or stunts, sometimes the D couldn't handle counters and traps.  One of the bad Arkansas losses came partly because the staff decided to change to some weird front alignment on D resulting in them having a career rushing day.

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11 hours ago, DAG said:

I can’t . I don’t think auburn should ever be 7-5 UNLESS it’s a disastrous circumstances . E.G. crazy amounts of injuries or a complete rebuild kind of like the mass exodus we had after our NC year. Otherwise, we should very very rarely ever be 7-5 with the talent and resources we have.

Which is what I said. 

A once in a while thing. But not to average 5 losses per season. That means things like the "disastrous circumstances" you mentioned. Like if we had 4 or 5 seasons with 3 or less losses and he drops down to 5 once or twice in a decade. Not having 5 be the status quo. 

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1 minute ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

Which is what I said. 

A once in a while thing. But not to average 5 losses per season. That means things like the "disastrous circumstances" you mentioned. Like if we had 4 or 5 seasons with 3 or less losses and he drops down to 5 once or twice in a decade. Not having 5 be the status quo. 

Ok big guy 👍🏿👍🏿

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1 hour ago, lala said:

The biggest part of that is Clemson getting the recruits out of Ga that used to go AU.  With Tenn now recruiting better it is tougher sledding, good to see us go to the west this year  for some of the DL guys.  

But but but this is gonna be our best recruiting year ever!!'

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