This will be an unpopular opinion

[AU64 10,122]

32 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I see it as:

Dye - good

Bowden - bad

Tubs - above averagey/goodish

Chizik - nightmare

Gus - average

 

yeah….and which ones got us into the national championship?    and which one holds the AU record for winning percentage ?  Coaching at AU is strange lifestyle JMO 

[gr82be 14,422]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

I see it as:

Dye - good

Bowden - bad

Tubs - above averagey/goodish

Chizik - nightmare

Gus - average

 

Bowden had issues for sure but somehow I think that if we could blend the best of both Gus and Bowden we'd have a really good coach. Gus would have to handle the recruiting part but Bowden definitely coaches game day. 

[aubcali 433]

I have no meaningful or insightful response to this thread, but I will say that Urban Meyer always reminded of the dude from Talking Heads.  SIAP.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,649]

4 hours ago, JWShewmake said:

I am not happy losing to anyone and to ask if I am happy losing to Saban and Smart every year is a misnomer. We haven't lost to them every year. It sounds a lot like "Winning isn't everything, it is the only thing", which was said by a famous drunk decades ago.  The facts are that Saban, or anyone who coaches at Alabama, will never play by the rules.  They think rules don't apply to them.  That is why in almost every aspect of SEC football there is now a Saban rule. There are these rules because while he may not have broken the letter of a rule, he certainly broke the spirit of a rule and so a clarified "Saban" addendum has been put in place.  I still believe that a program can be successful with a man of character leading it.  You might as well be an Alabama fan if you are willing to sell your soul for winning's sake.  It is my opinion that Saban is taking Alabama into uncharted waters.  There is already a huge bias against the SEC.  If Saban wins another NC this year and challenges for one next year too, there will be coaches all over the country ready to turn Alabama in for cheating, which we all know they do big time.  So yes, I would rather see us run a clean program with a coach of high character because it is the right thing to do and because when Alabama falls, they will fall hard.

 

JWShewmake

Alabama is never going to get condemned to that level lol. That’s like expecting UK/UNC/Duke to be condemned in CBB. They’re a pillar of football both reputation wise and fiscally 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,649]

Why would the 6th or 7th NC do anything more to upset people than the 4th or 5th? Did other coaches just think the ones he won before were bluffs or something???

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

On 12/18/2018 at 5:29 PM, Tiger said:

I see it as:

Dye - good

Bowden - bad

Tubs - above averagey/goodish

Chizik - nightmare

Gus - average

 

Geeze, man.  I dunno. 

Bowden was an excellent game day coach, and the debacle that was 1998 after an SEC Championship appearance the year before has to have the context of losing five, count 'em, five centers before the first game. The center is like the QB of the offensive line. Even so, the 98 team, as bad as it was, took eventual national champ Tennessee to the wire with Ben Leard running the option. For real. Bowden also gave AU the undefeated "best team on radio" season in 93. (I get tired of hearing "Yeah, but those were Dye's players." Maybe so, but Dye wasn't winning with 'em in 91 or 92.)

Dye? Pat Dye was...Pat Dye.  Sometimes the sideline organization was...something other than organization. And there were a few painful losses and blowouts along the way. For example, in the fall of '87 I was in the stands at Jordan-Hare to watch our Tigers beat FSU. Only by the 4th quarter it was like 34-6 bad guys.  I was also in the stands in January 84 for the Sugar Bowl, a win to be sure, but a boring as hell 9-7 win.  AU entered ranked third. Number one and number two lost their bowl games. So I expected AU to be poll national champs. Unfortunately Miami's thrilling win over Nebraska vaulted them from number five to number one and AU finished right where we started at number three.  I've always felt that if Dye had been less conservative, had opened up the wishbone run by Randy Campbell with Bo Jackson and company in the backfield, our Tigers would have scored more points instead of the snooze fest that was that game and our Tigers would have won the national championship.

Outside of that...Dye lost to a Gene Stallings led bammer team that had a losing record. He lost to a not very good Ray Perkins led bammer team as well.  All that said, he did a LOT for AU, from expanding the stadium to improving the library, and of course he got bammer to Jordan-Hare.  I will always love me some Pat Dye. 

Tubs? Tubs was an 8-4 coach on average. His record and Malzahn's record on average are just not very different. Tubs teams would beat some teams our Tigers were not supposed to stand a chance against...and lose to some we had no business losing to.  AU made Tubs, he didn't make AU. His subsequent records at TT and Cincy kind of prove the point. Average. Very average.

Chiz? Hardly a nightmare except for 2012. 2009 put the fun back into AU football after Tubs and the BBQ Boyz took it out in 2008. And 2010 brought the only (recognized by AU and consensus) national championship of my lifetime, and I was born in 1961. 2012 was a disaster of epic proportions, but it doesn't erase the good in 2009, 2010 (the national championship) and some good moments in 2011 including a nice bowl win.

Gus? I dunno. Average as in a record very similar in terms of wins and losses to Tubs.  I think a lot of AU fans may be giving up on Gus too soon. If things don't improve in the coming season, I will likely join them.

That's my opinion. You know what they say, everybody has one.

War Eagle!

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

Wait who are the good coaches we have had since dye?! lol. I guess Tubs but he was honestly just above average. We really have not had a truly good coach since dye. Auburn is just set up so well to succeed that these clowns have success in spite of not being worth a damn! lol

It's so telling that Tubs was the only one who didn't have his best season(s) in his 1st and/or 2nd year on the job. (No, November 2017 doesn't change that for Gus.)

[Tiger 8,818]

16 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA your description of the Chiz made me snort my cherry dr pepper through my nose!!!! And yet I still dislike Gus more than any of them even though he is not the worst because his run has been the most painful and brought the most frustration!!! I would put Bowden ahead of Gus just because the talent has been there with Gus but 4 of the 6 seasons have been complete and utter letdowns. 2014 and this season is 2 of the most waste seasons in Auburn history.

Yeah man, Gus is frustrating because I think we all know he can  be good but refuses to allow himself to be.

15 hours ago, AU64 said:

yeah….and which ones got us into the national championship?    and which one holds the AU record for winning percentage ?  Coaching at AU is strange lifestyle JMO 

Yup. That's why I think we can be a Clemson type of force with the right coach. 1 gold star to @GwillMac6 for this point.

15 hours ago, gr82be said:

Bowden had issues for sure but somehow I think that if we could blend the best of both Gus and Bowden we'd have a really good coach. Gus would have to handle the recruiting part but Bowden definitely coaches game day. 

100% agree. Gus sucks on gameday and Bowden was great during games. Gus can recruit, TB could not. 

7 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

Geeze, man.  I dunno. 

Bowden was an excellent game day coach, and the debacle that was 1998 after an SEC Championship appearance the year before has to have the context of losing five, count 'em, five centers before the first game. The center is like the QB of the offensive line. Even so, the 98 team, as bad as it was, took eventual national champ Tennessee to the wire with Ben Leard running the option. For real. Bowden also gave AU the undefeated "best team on radio" season in 93. (I get tired of hearing "Yeah, but those were Dye's players." Maybe so, but Dye wasn't winning with 'em in 91 or 92.)

Dye? Pat Dye was...Pat Dye.  Sometimes the sideline organization was...something other than organization. And there were a few painful losses and blowouts along the way. For example, in the fall of '87 I was in the stands at Jordan-Hare to watch our Tigers beat FSU. Only by the 4th quarter it was like 34-6 bad guys.  I was also in the stands in January 84 for the Sugar Bowl, a win to be sure, but a boring as hell 9-7 win.  AU entered ranked third. Number one and number two lost their bowl games. So I expected AU to be poll national champs. Unfortunately Miami's thrilling win over Nebraska vaulted them from number five to number one and AU finished right where we started at number three.  I've always felt that if Dye had been less conservative, had opened up the wishbone run by Randy Campbell with Bo Jackson and company in the backfield, our Tigers would have scored more points instead of the snooze fest that was that game and our Tigers would have won the national championship.

Outside of that...Dye lost to a Gene Stallings led bammer team that had a losing record. He lost to a not very good Ray Perkins led bammer team as well.  All that said, he did a LOT for AU, from expanding the stadium to improving the library, and of course he got bammer to Jordan-Hare.  I will always love me some Pat Dye. 

Tubs? Tubs was an 8-4 coach on average. His record and Malzahn's record on average are just not very different. Tubs teams would beat some teams our Tigers were not supposed to stand a chance against...and lose to some we had no business losing to.  AU made Tubs, he didn't make AU. His subsequent records at TT and Cincy kind of prove the point. Average. Very average.

Chiz? Hardly a nightmare except for 2012. 2009 put the fun back into AU football after Tubs and the BBQ Boyz took it out in 2008. And 2013 brought the only (recognized by AU and consensus) national championship of my lifetime, and I was born in 1961. 2012 was a disaster of epic proportions, but it doesn't erase the good in 2009, 2010 (the national championship) and some good moments in 2011 including a nice bowl win.

Gus? I dunno. Average as in a record very similar in terms of wins and losses to Tubs.  I think a lot of AU fans may be giving up on Gus too soon. If things don't improve in the coming season, I will likely join them.

That's my opinion. You know what they say, everybody has one.

War Eagle!

For me it goes beyond some of the actual Wins and Losses. I do put some value in leaving the program in better shape than you found it I actually don't disagree with anything you said really but in regards to Bowden -- anytime you steer AU to a 3-8 record that's pretty bad. Also he allowed the program to crumble on itself. And hasn't had what anyone would consider a "good" HC job since. 

Dye, is good because he put AU on the map nationally. That is enough for me as I am too young to remember any of the Dye days. But the overall vibe I get from his era was he elevated us to another level, so definitely considered good for me.

Tubs was average on a whole but would show flashes of above average -- like our run from 04-06. Then he kind of regressed back to average.

Chiz -- is interesting. Yes he actually elevated AU in recruiting to where big time studs now consider and sign with us. He needs huuuuuge props for that. I mean the rehab job he did for the program between 08, 09, and 10 was remarkable. But then he absolutely went into nightmare territory IMO. Worst record of all time at AU in a season with some of our best rated recruiting classes ever YIKES! And he's essentially considered one of the worst coaches to ever win a national title along with Larry Coker. He took us to the highest of high points and then to an unfathomable low point. I guess this balances to average but that 2012 job was significantly worse than anything I have seen out of an AU coach IMO.

Gus -- Hovering at average, but the tools at his disposal indicates that he's underperforming which makes the production unacceptable.

Good discussion CleCo WDE!

[AUwent 3,747]

22 hours ago, keesler said:

2-4 v uat

2-5 v uga

2-4 v lsu  

3-3 v msu  

BUT as long as Coach is a man of character, shows class, runs a clean program and represents the Creed everything's OK!  (Allow me to divert my eyes from the AU PTB & big $$ men swinging their johnson's & werkin behind the scene's trying to can our HC while courting the likes of Bob Stoooooops)

 

Psh, we're Auburn! We don't care about being a mean, MEAN program that actually cares about winning! We only want a saintly man of character coaching here, results be damned!

With the attitude that some of you guys have, we'll always be an also-ran. The very best coaches in the country right now, with maybe the exception of Riley, are @$$holes. Can we drop this damn holier than thou attitude, PLEASE?

[AU64 10,122]

Guess you never can tell about AU coaches but Tubs had the good fortune to be coaching during some bad times for bama and Georgia which helped him look better than he was IMO.   Dye got the end of the Bear Bryant era which was not all bad...and LSU was having some coaching issues too.   

JMO but it's not just what you do at AU....it also matters what is happening at other schools in the conference. 

[AUght2win 6,827]

33 minutes ago, AUwent said:

Psh, we're Auburn! We don't care about being a mean, MEAN program that actually cares about winning! We only want a saintly man of character coaching here, results be damned!

With the attitude that some of you guys have, we'll always be an also-ran. The very best coaches in the country right now, with maybe the exception of Riley, are @$$holes. Can we drop this damn holier than thou attitude, PLEASE?

You guys really get uncomfortable when Auburn people demand someone who reflects the creed. You always have to lie and say Auburn fans "only" want a man of character. You have to lie and say Auburn fans don't care about winning. If that was true, then explain why 95% of the fan base wants Gus gone.

A place like Auburn DESERVES and DEMANDS a man of integrity who can win championships. And those things are in no way exclusive of one another. Just because most Auburn people don't want to go the easy route and grab literally anyone who can get results, doesn't mean Auburn is "holier than thou". It means Auburn people have standards. Do you settle a lot in your personal life or do strive to get what you want?

[keesler 5,924]

22 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Guess you never can tell about AU coaches but Tubs had the good fortune to be coaching during some bad times for bama and Georgia which helped him look better than he was IMO.   Dye got the end of the Bear Bryant era which was not all bad...and LSU was having some coaching issues too.   

JMO but it's not just what you do at AU....it also matters what is happening at other schools in the conference. 

I see where you're coming from AU64, but Auburn hasn't been able to take full advantage of other programs when they are in the dumps.  i.e. UGA coaching change with a new inexperienced HC (Smart), or putting our boot on the throat of a down LSU coached by freaking Ed Orgeron, or really laying into a Tennessee team with a new inexperience hillbilly HC (Pruitt) this year when they hadn't won an SEC game in 2 seasons. 

JMO but it is what you should do at AU...when some of our SEC brethren are reeling from coaching changes and programs disarray.  AU should be primed to take the upper hand in those situations, man up, get your program in a position to pose a serious threat every year.

The frustration comes when our HC is in his 6th season, he hauls in top 10 talent and still cranks out 4-5 losses a year with a few against inferior teams.

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, keesler said:

I see where you're coming from AU64, but Auburn hasn't been able to take full advantage of other programs when they are in the dumps.  i.e. UGA coaching change with a new inexperienced HC (Smart), or putting our boot on the throat of a down LSU coached by freaking Ed Orgeron, or really laying into a Tennessee team with a new inexperience hillbilly HC (Pruitt) this year when they hadn't won an SEC game in 2 seasons. 

Thank you! It's not like we're winning 9 games in the regular season with respectable losses to top 10 teams and then winning some of our bowl games. We have multiple inexcusable losses every single season. 

[AU64 10,122]

K....I was just observing that none of our "best" coaches made their bones when the top opponents were at the top of their games.   And go back and pick a previous AU coach that you really like and tell me he would be doing much better than Gus right now?    The "state name" schools always have an advantage in recruiting, money, media support and fan support....JMO but that's the way it is and it's not gonna change.  

AU has missed some opportunities, no doubt but we've taken some advantage too with a good number of undefeated teams and conference champions but when the bamas or georgias or LSUs get their act together it's a tough battle.   .  

[McLoofus 35,182]

Georgia won or shared 4 SEC East titles from 2002 to 2007. LSU won a national title in 2003 and again in 2007 and were ranked in the top 10 almost every season in between. Tubs beat the SEC East champ twice in 2004. Beat the doors off them both times. Beat the national champion in 2006.

[keesler 5,924]

35 minutes ago, AU64 said:

K....I was just observing that none of our "best" coaches made their bones when the top opponents were at the top of their games.   And go back and pick a previous AU coach that you really like and tell me he would be doing much better than Gus right now?    The "state name" schools always have an advantage in recruiting, money, media support and fan support....JMO but that's the way it is and it's not gonna change.  

AU has missed some opportunities, no doubt but we've taken some advantage too with a good number of undefeated teams and conference champions but when the bamas or georgias or LSUs get their act together it's a tough battle.   .  

Agreed!

I just want to see AU strike when schools go through transition seasons, pounce when they're trying to get their act together and go on the offensive and WIN the battle more times than not.

Now I'm the first to admit that I don't have faith at this time that Auburn can do any better than Gus Malzhan as a HC.  Obviously the PTB at AU must feel somewhat the same way or else we'd have seen and change at the position.  I don't know that any of our former HC's could do much better than Gus right now.  I do however, think a few of them would've put a better disciplined and more prepared team on the field and would've managed the roster better in certain areas as well.  Whether that would translate to more wins than Gus, IDK?

[AUwent 3,747]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

K....I was just observing that none of our "best" coaches made their bones when the top opponents were at the top of their games.   And go back and pick a previous AU coach that you really like and tell me he would be doing much better than Gus right now?    The "state name" schools always have an advantage in recruiting, money, media support and fan support....JMO but that's the way it is and it's not gonna change.  

AU has missed some opportunities, no doubt but we've taken some advantage too with a good number of undefeated teams and conference champions but when the bamas or georgias or LSUs get their act together it's a tough battle.   .  

His record against Alabama is not the problem. It's pretty much everything else that's the problem. It's losing to one of the worst teams in the country (at home, no less). It's going 3-3 against Mississippi State, including losing to them by two TDs after they got housed by Kentucky. It's blowing TWO double digit leads to Ed Orgeron. It's being 1-4 in bowls, the one win being over a G5 school in the $h!tty-@$$ Birmingham Bowl. It's going after a crappy second-string JUCO QB despite the starter being very receptive to us. It's making completely LAZY hires for offensive line coach. It's accidentally burning the redshirt of a potential baller at RB. It's holding us hostage to get a MASSIVE buyout THE WEEK OF THE SEC CHAMPIONSHIP--and then throwing it up in our face.

[AURealist 2,185]

7 minutes ago, AUwent said:

His record against Alabama is not the problem. It's pretty much everything else that's the problem. It's losing to one of the worst teams in the country (at home, no less). It's going 3-3 against Mississippi State, including losing to them by two TDs after they got housed by Kentucky. It's blowing TWO double digit leads to Ed Orgeron. It's being 1-4 in bowls, the one win being over a G5 school in the $h!tty-@$$ Birmingham Bowl. It's going after a crappy second-string JUCO QB despite the starter being very receptive to us. It's making completely LAZY hires for offensive line coach. It's accidentally burning the redshirt of a potential baller at RB. It's holding us hostage to get a MASSIVE buyout THE WEEK OF THE SEC CHAMPIONSHIP--and then throwing it up in our face.

 

[oracle79 3,569]

4 hours ago, AU64 said:

Dye got the end of the Bear Bryant era which was not all bad...and LSU was having some coaching issues too.   

Dye and Bo Jackson drove a wooden stake through Bear's heart.  Maybe put holy wafers in his mouth too since he hasn't been back. 1982 killed him.  That's all I needed from Dye.

[abw0004 10,109]

16 hours ago, AURealist said:

 

Didn't even read what the GIF was meant for but I saw you at 999 likes and thought I would be the one to push you to 1,000!

[aujeff11 6,243]

16 hours ago, AUwent said:

His record against Alabama is not the problem. It's pretty much everything else that's the problem. It's losing to one of the worst teams in the country (at home, no less). It's going 3-3 against Mississippi State, including losing to them by two TDs after they got housed by Kentucky. It's blowing TWO double digit leads to Ed Orgeron. It's being 1-4 in bowls, the one win being over a G5 school in the $h!tty-@$$ Birmingham Bowl. It's going after a crappy second-string JUCO QB despite the starter being very receptive to us. It's making completely LAZY hires for offensive line coach. It's accidentally burning the redshirt of a potential baller at RB. It's holding us hostage to get a MASSIVE buyout THE WEEK OF THE SEC CHAMPIONSHIP--and then throwing it up in our face.

WHY ARE WE YELLING?????!!!!!