If you still haven’t figured out Trump’s a crook

[SaltyTiger 7,764]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

6 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

 

Sometimes I feel as if I've been transported to Germany in 1933.

 

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Actually, 1930's Germany marks the rise of the Nazi party along with the extreme nationalism and cult of personality that it entailed.  Trump reflects that sort of authoritarian cult of personality.

My gosh Brother Homer. You sound like goofballs Micheal Moore and Jane Fonda with dimwit remarks like these. Your obsession with Trump must be getting to you. 

Why don't you go ride your tractor and plant whatever needs planting this time year? give it break man. 

[homersapien 11,354]

29 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

 

My gosh Brother Homer. You sound like goofballs Micheal Moore and Jane Fonda with dimwit remarks like these. Your obsession with Trump must be getting to you. 

Why don't you go ride your tractor and plant whatever needs planting this time year? give it break man. 

You cannot handle the truth.

[homersapien 11,354]

45 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

All that is correct. He is all of those things and has been all of those things for 30+ years. He is the complete package fail. 

But hyperbole is still hyperbole. The party mantra on All Republicans are racists, etc. is exactly that, hyperbole. Trump is many things, but over the decades, as bad as he has been, has supported black businesses and black political endeavors. He has supported Rainbow, Push, NAN, etc. the blanket shotgun statement that he is a racist is bunk, hyperbole. Get the details right. Populist? Absolutely! Hyperbolic himself? Absolutely! Crazy? YES! But racist? If i had the time, there is ample evidence over 30 years that that is just bull****. That is hyperbole.

Trump has a long history of racist controversies

Here’s a breakdown of Trump’s history, taken largely from Dara Lind’s list for Vox and an op-ed by Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times:

• 1973: The US Department of Justice — under the Nixon administration, out of all administrations — sued the Trump Management Corporation for violating the Fair Housing Act. Federal officials found evidence that Trump had refused to rent to black tenants and lied to black applicants about whether apartments were available, among other accusations. Trump said the federal government was trying to get him to rent to welfare recipients. In the aftermath, he signed an agreement in 1975 agreeing not to discriminate to renters of color without admitting to discriminating before.
• 1980s: Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump's Castle, accused another one of Trump's businesses of discrimination. "When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor," Brown said. "It was the eighties, I was a teenager, but I remember it: They put us all in the back."
• 1988: In a commencement speech at Lehigh University, Trump spent much of his speech accusing countries like Japan of "stripping the United States of economic dignity." This matches much of his current rhetoric on China.
• 1989: In a controversial case that’s been characterized as a modern-day lynching, four black teenagers and one Latino teenager — the "Central Park Five" — were accused of attacking and raping a jogger in New York City. Trump immediately took charge in the case, running an ad in local papers demanding, "BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!" The teens’ convictions were later vacated after they spent seven to 13 years in prison, and the city paid $41 million in a settlement to the teens. But Trump in October 2016 said he still believes they’re guilty, despite the DNA evidence to the contrary.
• 1991: A book by John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a black accountant: "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control." Trump at first denied the remarks, but later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that "the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true."
• 1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.
• 2000: In opposition to a casino proposed by the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, which he saw as a financial threat to his casinos in Atlantic City, Trump secretly ran a series of ads suggesting the tribe had a "record of criminal activity [that] is well documented."
• 2004: In season two of The Apprentice, Trump fired Kevin Allen, a black contestant, for being overeducated. "You're an unbelievably talented guy in terms of education, and you haven’t done anything," Trump said on the show. "At some point you have to say, ‘That’s enough.’"
• 2005: Trump publicly pitched what was essentially The Apprentice: White People vs. Black People. He said he "wasn't particularly happy" with the most recent season of his show, so he was considering "an idea that is fairly controversial — creating a team of successful African Americans versus a team of successful whites. Whether people like that idea or not, it is somewhat reflective of our very vicious world."
• 2010: In 2010, there was a huge national controversy over the "Ground Zero Mosque" — a proposal to build a Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan, near the site of the 9/11 attacks. Trump opposed the project, calling it "insensitive," and offered to buy out one of the investors in the project. On The Late Show With David Letterman, Trump argued, referring to Muslims, "Well, somebody’s blowing us up. Somebody’s blowing up buildings, and somebody’s doing lots of bad stuff."
• 2011: Trump played a big role in pushing false rumors that Obama — the country’s first black president — was not born in the US. He even sent investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama's birth certificate. Obama later released his birth certificate, calling Trump a "carnival barker." (The research has found a strong correlation between "birtherism," as this conspiracy theory is called, and racism.) Trump has reportedly continued pushing this conspiracy theory in private.
• 2011: While Trump suggested that Obama wasn’t born in the US, he also argued that maybe Obama wasn’t a good enough student to have gotten into Columbia or Harvard Law School, and demanded Obama release his university transcripts. Trump claimed, "I heard he was a terrible student. Terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?"

For many people, none of these incidents, individually, may be totally damning: One of these alone might suggest that Trump is simply a bad speaker and perhaps racially insensitive ("politically incorrect," as he would put it), but not overtly racist.

But when you put all these events together, a clear pattern emerges. At the very least, Trump has a history of playing into people’s racism to bolster himself — and that likely says something about him too.

And of course, there’s everything that’s happened through and since his presidential campaign.

As a candidate and president, Trump has made many more racist comments

On top of all that history, Trump has repeatedly made racist — often explicitly so — remarks on the campaign trail and as president:

• Trump launched his campaign in 2015 by calling Mexican immigrants "rapists" who are "bringing crime" and "bringing drugs" to the US. His campaign was largely built on building a wall to keep these immigrants out of the US.
• As a candidate in 2015, Trump called for a ban on all Muslims coming into the US. His administration’s attempts at implementing a watered-down version of this policy have been contested in courts.
• When asked at a 2016 Republican debate whether all 1.6 billion Muslims hate the US, Trump said, "I mean a lot of them. I mean a lot of them."
• He argued in 2016 that Judge Gonzalo Curiel — who was overseeing the Trump University lawsuit — should recuse himself from the case because of his Mexican heritage and membership in a Latino lawyers association. House Speaker Paul Ryan, who endorsed Trump, later called such comments "the textbook definition of a racist comment."
• Trump has been repeatedly slow to condemn white supremacists who endorse him, and he regularly retweeted messages from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his presidential campaign.
• He tweeted and later deleted an image that showed Hillary Clinton in front of a pile of money and by a Jewish Star of David that said, "Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!" The tweet had some very obvious anti-Semitic imagery, but Trump insisted that the star was a sheriff’s badge, and said his campaign shouldn’t have deleted it.
• Trump has repeatedly referred to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), who has said she has Cherokee ancestors, as "Pocahontas."
• At the 2016 Republican convention, Trump officially seized the mantle of the "law and order" candidate — an obvious dog whistle playing to white fears of black crime, even though crime in the US is historically low. His speeches, comments, and executive actions after he took office have continued this line of messaging.
• In a pitch to black voters in 2016, Trump said, "You’re living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?"
• Trump stereotyped a black reporter at a press conference in February 2017. When April Ryan asked him if he plans to meet and work with the Congressional Black Caucus, he repeatedly asked her to set up the meeting — even as she insisted that she’s "just a reporter."
• In the week after white supremacist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017, Trump repeatedly said that "many sides" and "both sides" were to blame for the violence and chaos that ensued — suggesting that the white supremacist protesters were morally equivalent to counterprotesters that stood against racism. He also said that there were "some very fine people" among the white supremacists. All of this seemed like a dog whistle to white supremacists — and many of them took it as one, with white nationalist Richard Spencer praising Trump for "defending the truth."
• Throughout 2017, Trump repeatedly attacked NFL players who, by kneeling or otherwise silently protesting during the national anthem, demonstrated against systemic racism in America.
• Trump reportedly said in 2017 that people who came to the US from Haiti "all have AIDS," and he lamented that people who came to the US from Nigeria would never "go back to their huts" once they saw America. The White House denied that Trump ever made these comments.
• Speaking about immigration in a bipartisan meeting in January 2018, Trump reportedly asked, in reference to Haiti and African countries, "Why are we having all these people from ****hole countries come here?" He then reportedly suggested that the US should take more people from countries like Norway. The implication: Immigrants from predominantly white countries are good, while immigrants from predominantly black countries are bad.
• Trump denied making the "****hole" comments, although some senators present at the meeting said they happened. The White House, meanwhile, suggested that the comments, like Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests, will play well to his base. The only connection between Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests and his "****hole" comments is race.

This list is not comprehensive, instead relying on some of the major examples since Trump announced his candidacy. But once again, there’s a pattern of racism and bigotry here that suggests Trump isn’t just misspeaking; it is who he is.

Are Trump’s actions and comments "racist"? Or are they "bigoted"?

One of the common defenses for Trump is that he’s not necessarily racist, because the Muslim and Mexican people he often targets don’t actually comprise a race.

Disgraced journalist Mark Halperin, for example, said as much when Trump argued Judge Curiel should recuse himself from the Trump University case because of his Mexican heritage, making the astute observation that "Mexico isn’t a race."

Kristof made a similar point in the New York Times: "My view is that ‘racist’ can be a loaded word, a conversation stopper more than a clarifier, and that we should be careful not to use it simply as an epithet. Moreover, Muslims and Latinos can be of any race, so some of those statements technically reflect not so much racism as bigotry. It’s also true that with any single statement, it is possible that Trump misspoke or was misconstrued."

This critique misses the point on two levels.

For one, the argument is tremendously semantic. It’s essentially probing the question: Is Trump racist or is he bigoted? But who cares? Neither is a trait that anyone should want in a president — and either label essentially communicates the same criticism.

Another issue is that race is socially malleable. Over the years, Americans considered Germans, Greeks, Irish, Italians, and Spaniards as nonwhite people of different races. That’s changed. Similarly, some Americans today consider Latinos and, to a lesser degree, some people with Muslim and Jewish backgrounds as part of a nonwhite race too. (As a Latino man, I certainly consider myself to be of a different race, and the treatment I’ve received in the course of my life validates that.) So under current definitions, comments against these groups are, indeed, racist.

This is all possible because, as Jenée Desmond-Harris explained for Vox, race is entirely a social construct with no biological basis. This doesn’t mean race and people’s views of race don’t have real effects on many people — of course they do — but it means that people’s definitions of race can change over time.

But really, whatever you want to call it, Trump has made racist and bigoted comments in the past. That much should be clear in the long lists above.

Trump’s bigotry was a key part of his campaign

Regardless of how one labels it, Trump’s racism or bigotry was a big part of his campaign — by giving a candidate to the many white Americans who harbor racial resentment.

One paper, published in January 2017 by political scientists Brian Schaffner, Matthew MacWilliams, and Tatishe Nteta, found that voters’ measures of sexism and racism correlated much more closely with support for Trump than economic dissatisfaction after controlling for factors like partisanship and political ideology.

 

Brian Schaffner, Matthew MacWilliams, and Tatishe Nteta

 

Another study, conducted by researchers Brenda Major, Alison Blodorn, and Gregory Major Blascovich shortly before the 2016 election, found that if people who strongly identified as white were told that nonwhite groups will outnumber white people in 2042, they became more likely to support Trump.

And a study, published in November 2017 by researchers Matthew Luttig, Christopher Federico, and Howard Lavine, found that Trump supporters were much more likely to change their views on housing policy based on race. In this study, respondents were randomly assigned "a subtle image of either a black or a white man." Then, they were asked about views on housing policy.

The researchers found that Trump supporters were much more likely to be impacted by the image of a black man. After the exposure, they were not only less supportive of housing assistance programs, but they also expressed higher levels of anger that some people receive government assistance, and they were more likely to say that individuals who receive assistance are to blame for their situation.

In contrast, favorability toward Hillary Clinton did not significantly change respondents’ views on any of these issues when primed with racial cues.

"These findings indicate that responses to the racial cue varied as a function of feelings about Donald Trump — but not feelings about Hillary Clinton — during the 2016 presidential election," the researchers concluded.

There is also a lot of other research showing that people’s racial attitudes can change their views on politics and policy, as my colleague Dylan Matthews as well as researchers Sean McElwee and Jason McDaniel previously explained for Vox.

Simply put, racial attitudes were a big driver behind Trump’s election — just as they long have been for general beliefs about politics and policy. (Much more on all the research in my explainer.)

Meanwhile, white supremacist groups have openly embraced Trump. As Sarah Posner and David Neiwert reported at Mother Jones, what the media largely treated as gaffes — Trump retweeting white nationalists, Trump describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists" and criminals — were to white supremacists real signals approving of their racist causes. One white supremacist wrote, "Our Glorious Leader and ULTIMATE SAVIOR has gone full-wink-wink-wink to his most aggressive supporters."

Some of them even argued that Trump has softened the greater public to their racist messaging. "The success of the Trump campaign just proves that our views resonate with millions," said Rachel Pendergraft, a national organizer for the Knights Party, which succeeded David Duke’s Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. "They may not be ready for the Ku Klux Klan yet, but as anti-white hatred escalates, they will."

And at the 2017 white supremacist protest in Charlottesville, David Duke, the former KKK grand wizard, said that the rally was meant "to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump."

So while Trump may deny his racism and bigotry, at some level even his supporters seem to get it. As much as his history of racism shows that he’s racist, perhaps who supported him and why is just as revealing — and it doesn’t paint a favorable picture for Trump.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

On 1/8/2019 at 6:01 PM, GiveEmElle said:

I really doubt people marching in the streets with tiki torches were concerned about the history of statues. I watched people around me complain about statues being taken down that they never knew existed until someone wanted them removed. In the south there is this sense of pride in the confederacy without historical knowledge. The opppsition to that is rooted in racism. 

Again, I’m aware Antifa exists but the comparison of them to White Supremacists is just weak. The right needed a bogey man so the picked Antifa. You need only to look at right wing posters here to see that it worked. 

Funny story, my brother and I were both teens at home when Cop Killer was released. My brother had the cassette tape and played it for me. Once my mother learned that such an atrocity existed, she confronted us and asked if we had it to which we both said “no.” I was so amused by my brother’s ability to lie with a straight face that my mother interpreted my facial expressions as me lying. I got a good chewing out while my brother calmly watched. 

I just don’t think that in the racial and sexist climate Trump has created that a  female or black male could win. That saddens me. But then again a historically large number of women won senate seats so my logic could be flawed. 

I always liked the Cowboys as a kid. I like the Panthers because of Cam and when it comes to the Super Bowl I pull for the team with the most AU players. 

Again, broad generalization. There were those there with racist intents absolutely and those that were there involving the statues only. Look at the Unite the Right II bit. Think less than 40 individuals showed up vs 1000's of protestors. All result violence afterwards was from the "equality/peace" group. They even switched their hate rhetoric onto the police for properly doing their job that day. The statue argument goes for both sides lol. You can argue that there is a sense in pride in being an American without historical knowledge that is rooted in racism. Stars and stripes is very well stained in blood.

See to me, who is in the middle, your Antifa argument is the exact same thing that you are accusing the right of doing. I see the individuals doing the same stuff, but for some reason we give Antifa a pass?

Cop Killer ticked/shocked many.

Again to me, in the middle. These sexist and racist divides have origins and supporters on both sides. The article from the Guardian I posted I feel does a good job of identifying many issues. Everyone talks about how rooted Texas is with the right. Yet, Beto almost took Texas....not cause he was a white male.... but because of what he stood for and how he addressed people as a whole. I believe he would of got the same support regardless of color or sex.

Cowboys always. I will go with AU players if the Cowboys aren't involved.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

4 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Again, broad generalization. There were those there with racist intents absolutely and those that were there involving the statues only. Look at the Unite the Right II bit. Think less than 40 individuals showed up vs 1000's of protestors. All result violence afterwards was from the "equality/peace" group. They even switched their hate rhetoric onto the police for properly doing their job that day. The statue argument goes for both sides lol. You can argue that there is a sense in pride in being an American without historical knowledge that is rooted in racism. Stars and stripes is very well stained in blood.

See to me, who is in the middle, your Antifa argument is the exact same thing that you are accusing the right of doing. I see the individuals doing the same stuff, but for some reason we give Antifa a pass?

Cop Killer ticked/shocked many.

Again to me, in the middle. These sexist and racist divides have origins and supporters on both sides. The article from the Guardian I posted I feel does a good job of identifying many issues. Everyone talks about how rooted Texas is with the right. Yet, Beto almost took Texas....not cause he was a white male.... but because of what he stood for and how he addressed people as a whole. I believe he would of got the same support regardless of color or sex.

Cowboys always. I will go with AU players if the Cowboys aren't involved.

Regardless, it was tone deaf for the President to use “very fine people” after a woman was murdered. That was a broad generalization. And a racist one. Trump has a past history of racism, so selling this as he was just acknowledging that not all protesters were bad is akin to Trump saying he never said Mexico would write a check for the wall. Beto is great, I hated he lost. 

I don’t see how recognizing Antifa exists but stating they aren’t the threat that white supremacist are is me doing what I’m accusing the right of doing. https://www.theroot.com/white-supremacists-killed-more-people-in-2017-than-musl-1822193008

I just fail to see the comparison between both parties on sexism and racism. Al Franken is no longer serving,  Trump is. And I really don’t recall any admitted Nazi’s running on a Democrat ticket. Maybe I missed something? 

I catch a few Carolina games during the year then watch the SB. 

[SaltyTiger 7,764]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

Trump has repeatedly referred to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), who has said she has Cherokee ancestors, as "Pocahontas."

 You claimed the poor lady was a drunk today in another thread, ICHY thought it was cute. You are as bad as what you claim President Trump to be.

Another BS post. Are you ok?

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

58 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

Regardless, it was tone deaf for the President to use “very fine people” after a woman was murdered. That was a broad generalization. And a racist one. Trump has a past history of racism, so selling this as he was just acknowledging that not all protesters were bad is akin to Trump saying he never said Mexico would write a check for the wall. Beto is great, I hated he lost. 

I don’t see how recognizing Antifa exists but stating they aren’t the threat that white supremacist are is me doing what I’m accusing the right of doing. https://www.theroot.com/white-supremacists-killed-more-people-in-2017-than-musl-1822193008

I just fail to see the comparison between both parties on sexism and racism. Al Franken is no longer serving,  Trump is. And I really don’t recall any admitted Nazi’s running on a Democrat ticket. Maybe I missed something? 

I catch a few Carolina games during the year then watch the SB. 

Stated that he picked really bad words and timing on that. Completely agree. Should know by now I'm not a supporter, but I'm not a hate to hate individual either. Left supporters did themselves no favor with me during Unite the Right 2 with their actions.

The Root. Yuck bad choice to use with me. The Root is a perfect example of the left rhetoric that I consider to be a major divider in this country. Go read their articles on white ally's for example...... spoiler.... you can't be a friend or ally to POC if you are white. Lol damned if you do and damned if you don't with that rag.

If we are going to use deaths as the only measuring stick then you are right, White groups are worse for 2017 and so are black groups as they killed more than Antifa. I say if we are going to prioritize groups by death then Chicago gangs get the number one slot. I'm sure if research I can find more murders, in one neighborhood of Chicago during the period of June to August only for 2017. Nobody wants to touch that one though.

I look at the supporters of the parties and not just the individuals in office. I also look at the writings (like I said Root is a great example) You are right, no Nazi's are running on a Democratic ticket. But in a city like Chicago you got Democratic aldermen crying everything is racist from cops shooting people that pulled guns on them to increasing the stiffness of penalties for teens involved in car jacking. Mean look at the video I posted. Those guys start calling the guy racist cause he has a North Carolina tag and wants to drive down a street.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

21 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Stated that he picked really bad words and timing on that. Completely agree. Should know by now I'm not a supporter, but I'm not a hate to hate individual either. Left supporters did themselves no favor with me during Unite the Right 2 with their actions.

The Root. Yuck bad choice to use with me. The Root is a perfect example of the left rhetoric that I consider to be a major divider in this country. Go read their articles on white ally's for example...... spoiler.... you can't be a friend or ally to POC if you are white. Lol damned if you do and damned if you don't with that rag.

If we are going to use deaths as the only measuring stick then you are right, White groups are worse for 2017 and so are black groups as they killed more than Antifa. I say if we are going to prioritize groups by death then Chicago gangs get the number one slot. I'm sure if research I can find more murders, in one neighborhood of Chicago during the period of June to August only for 2017. Nobody wants to touch that one though.

I look at the supporters of the parties and not just the individuals in office. I also look at the writings (like I said Root is a great example) You are right, no Nazi's are running on a Democratic ticket. But in a city like Chicago you got Democratic aldermen crying everything is racist from cops shooting people that pulled guns on them to increasing the stiffness of penalties for teens involved in car jacking. Mean look at the video I posted. Those guys start calling the guy racist cause he has a North Carolina tag and wants to drive down a street.

I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone LIKES Trump. It isn’t about hate. He is unfit for the job. Because Democrats acknowkedge that the right yells that it’s because we hate him. 

You don’t like The Root. I could have used Snopes, the Washington Post, NBC, or the Anti Defamation League and they’d say the same thing. 

And sorry but someone whining that everything g is racist isn’t the same as someone who openly admits to being a Nazi. 

[homersapien 11,354]

14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

 You claimed the poor lady was a drunk today in another thread, ICHY thought it was cute. You are as bad as what you claim President Trump to be.

Another BS post. Are you ok?

You think I seriously claimed Warren to be a drunk? 

Have people become so stupid on this forum that satire is completely off-limits?  I guess you'll take a page from DKW and call me a liar now.

Damn Salty.  I have seriously overestimated you.

[homersapien 11,354]

13 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Stated that he picked really bad words and timing on that. Completely agree. Should know by now I'm not a supporter, but I'm not a hate to hate individual either. Left supporters did themselves no favor with me during Unite the Right 2 with their actions.

The Root. Yuck bad choice to use with me. The Root is a perfect example of the left rhetoric that I consider to be a major divider in this country. Go read their articles on white ally's for example...... spoiler.... you can't be a friend or ally to POC if you are white. Lol damned if you do and damned if you don't with that rag.

If we are going to use deaths as the only measuring stick then you are right, White groups are worse for 2017 and so are black groups as they killed more than Antifa. I say if we are going to prioritize groups by death then Chicago gangs get the number one slot. I'm sure if research I can find more murders, in one neighborhood of Chicago during the period of June to August only for 2017. Nobody wants to touch that one though.

I look at the supporters of the parties and not just the individuals in office. I also look at the writings (like I said Root is a great example) You are right, no Nazi's are running on a Democratic ticket. But in a city like Chicago you got Democratic aldermen crying everything is racist from cops shooting people that pulled guns on them to increasing the stiffness of penalties for teens involved in car jacking. Mean look at the video I posted. Those guys start calling the guy racist cause he has a North Carolina tag and wants to drive down a street.

Can you articulate exactly what it is about antifa positions - what they oppose, what they are for - that you find objectionable?  Or are you simply talking about specific behavior by some of them in their protests?

I really don't get throwing up antifa as a counter to the evil of fascists and white nationals.

[homersapien 11,354]

13 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Stated that he picked really bad words and timing on that. Completely agree. Should know by now I'm not a supporter, but I'm not a hate to hate individual either. Left supporters did themselves no favor with me during Unite the Right 2 with their actions.

The Root. Yuck bad choice to use with me. The Root is a perfect example of the left rhetoric that I consider to be a major divider in this country. Go read their articles on white ally's for example...... spoiler.... you can't be a friend or ally to POC if you are white. Lol damned if you do and damned if you don't with that rag.

If we are going to use deaths as the only measuring stick then you are right, White groups are worse for 2017 and so are black groups as they killed more than Antifa. I say if we are going to prioritize groups by death then Chicago gangs get the number one slot. I'm sure if research I can find more murders, in one neighborhood of Chicago during the period of June to August only for 2017. Nobody wants to touch that one though.

I look at the supporters of the parties and not just the individuals in office. I also look at the writings (like I said Root is a great example) You are right, no Nazi's are running on a Democratic ticket. But in a city like Chicago you got Democratic aldermen crying everything is racist from cops shooting people that pulled guns on them to increasing the stiffness of penalties for teens involved in car jacking. Mean look at the video I posted. Those guys start calling the guy racist cause he has a North Carolina tag and wants to drive down a street.

And your implication is......?

[SaltyTiger 7,764]

35 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You think I seriously claimed Warren to be a drunk?

Not really....but she looked drunk to me.

[homersapien 11,354]

13 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not really....but she looked drunk to me.

Then why did you say "another BS post"?

[DKW 86 7,411]

22 hours ago, homersapien said:

Trump has a long history of racist controversies

Here’s a breakdown of Trump’s history, taken largely from Dara Lind’s list for Vox and an op-ed by Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times:

• 1973: The US Department of Justice — under the Nixon administration, out of all administrations — sued the Trump Management Corporation for violating the Fair Housing Act. Federal officials found evidence that Trump had refused to rent to black tenants and lied to black applicants about whether apartments were available, among other accusations. Trump said the federal government was trying to get him to rent to welfare recipients. In the aftermath, he signed an agreement in 1975 agreeing not to discriminate to renters of color without admitting to discriminating before.
• 1980s: Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump's Castle, accused another one of Trump's businesses of discrimination. "When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor," Brown said. "It was the eighties, I was a teenager, but I remember it: They put us all in the back."
• 1988: In a commencement speech at Lehigh University, Trump spent much of his speech accusing countries like Japan of "stripping the United States of economic dignity." This matches much of his current rhetoric on China.
• 1989: In a controversial case that’s been characterized as a modern-day lynching, four black teenagers and one Latino teenager — the "Central Park Five" — were accused of attacking and raping a jogger in New York City. Trump immediately took charge in the case, running an ad in local papers demanding, "BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!" The teens’ convictions were later vacated after they spent seven to 13 years in prison, and the city paid $41 million in a settlement to the teens. But Trump in October 2016 said he still believes they’re guilty, despite the DNA evidence to the contrary.
• 1991: A book by John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a black accountant: "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control." Trump at first denied the remarks, but later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that "the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true."
• 1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.
• 2000: In opposition to a casino proposed by the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, which he saw as a financial threat to his casinos in Atlantic City, Trump secretly ran a series of ads suggesting the tribe had a "record of criminal activity [that] is well documented."
• 2004: In season two of The Apprentice, Trump fired Kevin Allen, a black contestant, for being overeducated. "You're an unbelievably talented guy in terms of education, and you haven’t done anything," Trump said on the show. "At some point you have to say, ‘That’s enough.’"
• 2005: Trump publicly pitched what was essentially The Apprentice: White People vs. Black People. He said he "wasn't particularly happy" with the most recent season of his show, so he was considering "an idea that is fairly controversial — creating a team of successful African Americans versus a team of successful whites. Whether people like that idea or not, it is somewhat reflective of our very vicious world."
• 2010: In 2010, there was a huge national controversy over the "Ground Zero Mosque" — a proposal to build a Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan, near the site of the 9/11 attacks. Trump opposed the project, calling it "insensitive," and offered to buy out one of the investors in the project. On The Late Show With David Letterman, Trump argued, referring to Muslims, "Well, somebody’s blowing us up. Somebody’s blowing up buildings, and somebody’s doing lots of bad stuff."
• 2011: Trump played a big role in pushing false rumors that Obama — the country’s first black president — was not born in the US. He even sent investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama's birth certificate. Obama later released his birth certificate, calling Trump a "carnival barker." (The research has found a strong correlation between "birtherism," as this conspiracy theory is called, and racism.) Trump has reportedly continued pushing this conspiracy theory in private.
• 2011: While Trump suggested that Obama wasn’t born in the US, he also argued that maybe Obama wasn’t a good enough student to have gotten into Columbia or Harvard Law School, and demanded Obama release his university transcripts. Trump claimed, "I heard he was a terrible student. Terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?"

For many people, none of these incidents, individually, may be totally damning: One of these alone might suggest that Trump is simply a bad speaker and perhaps racially insensitive ("politically incorrect," as he would put it), but not overtly racist.

But when you put all these events together, a clear pattern emerges. At the very least, Trump has a history of playing into people’s racism to bolster himself — and that likely says something about him too.

And of course, there’s everything that’s happened through and since his presidential campaign.

As a candidate and president, Trump has made many more racist comments

On top of all that history, Trump has repeatedly made racist — often explicitly so — remarks on the campaign trail and as president:

• Trump launched his campaign in 2015 by calling Mexican immigrants "rapists" who are "bringing crime" and "bringing drugs" to the US. His campaign was largely built on building a wall to keep these immigrants out of the US.
• As a candidate in 2015, Trump called for a ban on all Muslims coming into the US. His administration’s attempts at implementing a watered-down version of this policy have been contested in courts.
• When asked at a 2016 Republican debate whether all 1.6 billion Muslims hate the US, Trump said, "I mean a lot of them. I mean a lot of them."
• He argued in 2016 that Judge Gonzalo Curiel — who was overseeing the Trump University lawsuit — should recuse himself from the case because of his Mexican heritage and membership in a Latino lawyers association. House Speaker Paul Ryan, who endorsed Trump, later called such comments "the textbook definition of a racist comment."
• Trump has been repeatedly slow to condemn white supremacists who endorse him, and he regularly retweeted messages from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his presidential campaign.
• He tweeted and later deleted an image that showed Hillary Clinton in front of a pile of money and by a Jewish Star of David that said, "Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!" The tweet had some very obvious anti-Semitic imagery, but Trump insisted that the star was a sheriff’s badge, and said his campaign shouldn’t have deleted it.
• Trump has repeatedly referred to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), who has said she has Cherokee ancestors, as "Pocahontas."
• At the 2016 Republican convention, Trump officially seized the mantle of the "law and order" candidate — an obvious dog whistle playing to white fears of black crime, even though crime in the US is historically low. His speeches, comments, and executive actions after he took office have continued this line of messaging.
• In a pitch to black voters in 2016, Trump said, "You’re living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?"
• Trump stereotyped a black reporter at a press conference in February 2017. When April Ryan asked him if he plans to meet and work with the Congressional Black Caucus, he repeatedly asked her to set up the meeting — even as she insisted that she’s "just a reporter."
• In the week after white supremacist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017, Trump repeatedly said that "many sides" and "both sides" were to blame for the violence and chaos that ensued — suggesting that the white supremacist protesters were morally equivalent to counterprotesters that stood against racism. He also said that there were "some very fine people" among the white supremacists. All of this seemed like a dog whistle to white supremacists — and many of them took it as one, with white nationalist Richard Spencer praising Trump for "defending the truth."
• Throughout 2017, Trump repeatedly attacked NFL players who, by kneeling or otherwise silently protesting during the national anthem, demonstrated against systemic racism in America.
• Trump reportedly said in 2017 that people who came to the US from Haiti "all have AIDS," and he lamented that people who came to the US from Nigeria would never "go back to their huts" once they saw America. The White House denied that Trump ever made these comments.
• Speaking about immigration in a bipartisan meeting in January 2018, Trump reportedly asked, in reference to Haiti and African countries, "Why are we having all these people from ****hole countries come here?" He then reportedly suggested that the US should take more people from countries like Norway. The implication: Immigrants from predominantly white countries are good, while immigrants from predominantly black countries are bad.
• Trump denied making the "****hole" comments, although some senators present at the meeting said they happened. The White House, meanwhile, suggested that the comments, like Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests, will play well to his base. The only connection between Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests and his "****hole" comments is race.

This list is not comprehensive, instead relying on some of the major examples since Trump announced his candidacy. But once again, there’s a pattern of racism and bigotry here that suggests Trump isn’t just misspeaking; it is who he is.

Are Trump’s actions and comments "racist"? Or are they "bigoted"?

One of the common defenses for Trump is that he’s not necessarily racist, because the Muslim and Mexican people he often targets don’t actually comprise a race.

Disgraced journalist Mark Halperin, for example, said as much when Trump argued Judge Curiel should recuse himself from the Trump University case because of his Mexican heritage, making the astute observation that "Mexico isn’t a race."

Kristof made a similar point in the New York Times: "My view is that ‘racist’ can be a loaded word, a conversation stopper more than a clarifier, and that we should be careful not to use it simply as an epithet. Moreover, Muslims and Latinos can be of any race, so some of those statements technically reflect not so much racism as bigotry. It’s also true that with any single statement, it is possible that Trump misspoke or was misconstrued."

This critique misses the point on two levels.

For one, the argument is tremendously semantic. It’s essentially probing the question: Is Trump racist or is he bigoted? But who cares? Neither is a trait that anyone should want in a president — and either label essentially communicates the same criticism.

Another issue is that race is socially malleable. Over the years, Americans considered Germans, Greeks, Irish, Italians, and Spaniards as nonwhite people of different races. That’s changed. Similarly, some Americans today consider Latinos and, to a lesser degree, some people with Muslim and Jewish backgrounds as part of a nonwhite race too. (As a Latino man, I certainly consider myself to be of a different race, and the treatment I’ve received in the course of my life validates that.) So under current definitions, comments against these groups are, indeed, racist.

This is all possible because, as Jenée Desmond-Harris explained for Vox, race is entirely a social construct with no biological basis. This doesn’t mean race and people’s views of race don’t have real effects on many people — of course they do — but it means that people’s definitions of race can change over time.

But really, whatever you want to call it, Trump has made racist and bigoted comments in the past. That much should be clear in the long lists above.

Trump’s bigotry was a key part of his campaign

Regardless of how one labels it, Trump’s racism or bigotry was a big part of his campaign — by giving a candidate to the many white Americans who harbor racial resentment.

One paper, published in January 2017 by political scientists Brian Schaffner, Matthew MacWilliams, and Tatishe Nteta, found that voters’ measures of sexism and racism correlated much more closely with support for Trump than economic dissatisfaction after controlling for factors like partisanship and political ideology.

 

Brian Schaffner, Matthew MacWilliams, and Tatishe Nteta

 

Another study, conducted by researchers Brenda Major, Alison Blodorn, and Gregory Major Blascovich shortly before the 2016 election, found that if people who strongly identified as white were told that nonwhite groups will outnumber white people in 2042, they became more likely to support Trump.

And a study, published in November 2017 by researchers Matthew Luttig, Christopher Federico, and Howard Lavine, found that Trump supporters were much more likely to change their views on housing policy based on race. In this study, respondents were randomly assigned "a subtle image of either a black or a white man." Then, they were asked about views on housing policy.

The researchers found that Trump supporters were much more likely to be impacted by the image of a black man. After the exposure, they were not only less supportive of housing assistance programs, but they also expressed higher levels of anger that some people receive government assistance, and they were more likely to say that individuals who receive assistance are to blame for their situation.

In contrast, favorability toward Hillary Clinton did not significantly change respondents’ views on any of these issues when primed with racial cues.

"These findings indicate that responses to the racial cue varied as a function of feelings about Donald Trump — but not feelings about Hillary Clinton — during the 2016 presidential election," the researchers concluded.

There is also a lot of other research showing that people’s racial attitudes can change their views on politics and policy, as my colleague Dylan Matthews as well as researchers Sean McElwee and Jason McDaniel previously explained for Vox.

Simply put, racial attitudes were a big driver behind Trump’s election — just as they long have been for general beliefs about politics and policy. (Much more on all the research in my explainer.)

Meanwhile, white supremacist groups have openly embraced Trump. As Sarah Posner and David Neiwert reported at Mother Jones, what the media largely treated as gaffes — Trump retweeting white nationalists, Trump describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists" and criminals — were to white supremacists real signals approving of their racist causes. One white supremacist wrote, "Our Glorious Leader and ULTIMATE SAVIOR has gone full-wink-wink-wink to his most aggressive supporters."

Some of them even argued that Trump has softened the greater public to their racist messaging. "The success of the Trump campaign just proves that our views resonate with millions," said Rachel Pendergraft, a national organizer for the Knights Party, which succeeded David Duke’s Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. "They may not be ready for the Ku Klux Klan yet, but as anti-white hatred escalates, they will."

And at the 2017 white supremacist protest in Charlottesville, David Duke, the former KKK grand wizard, said that the rally was meant "to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump."

So while Trump may deny his racism and bigotry, at some level even his supporters seem to get it. As much as his history of racism shows that he’s racist, perhaps who supported him and why is just as revealing — and it doesn’t paint a favorable picture for Trump.

I could surgically knife thru about half of that as pure fantasy bull s*** but I would get the inevitable "DKW is a Trumpster" I always get.

Trump thru MOST of that was a Loyal Democrat Party Supporting shill. 
He is a dumbass, a charlatan, a fake, a fraud, a phony. He was also writing checks and getting awards from Rainbow/PUSH/NAN at the same time. That is the part that my whackadoodle Liberal Brethren just cant comprehend. They can only see the hyperbole and the simpleton, childlike, faith they have in the Talking Points. Adults know that nothing in the world is 100% nor simple. If you think Trump has a paramilitary wing of the party marching in the streets, dressed in black, smashing faces of innocent people then...wait, wouldnt that be Antifa? Trump is BAD. He is easily the worst President since Carter. He is totally unfit for the job. I NEVER supported him. But this brain dead drivel that tries to SIMPLY IGNORE what little the guy did good for BLACKS AND MINORITIES is just hyperbole. Comparing him to Hitler???? Have you ever read a f'in history book? When the feeble-minded go off their rockers, it almost always starts with them shouting "Racism" and "Hitler Comparisons."

Trump is a lousy president, guaranteed crooked businessman, a man without morals. He is someone that should repel folks that care about character. The Right has abdicated ALL of that virtue forever. But quit with the over-the-top bovine excrement.  

PART II: Any paper that contains the term Predicted Probability should start by examining the PP of Papers that contain the term PP as 100% bovine excrement.

Predicted Probability: words fail me that any educated person would ever offer something that squishy as a debate point. Predicted Probability???

WTF does that even mean?  Scientific-Wild-A$$-Guess about another Scientific-Wild-A$$-Guess??? I wish some of yall would have met my dad. Somewhere in Heaven right now he is bent in half laughing his ass off that someone calling themselves educated would even write something that frickin silly. <smdh>

[homersapien 11,354]

2 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

I could surgically knife thru about half of that as pure fantasy bull s***but I would get the inevitable "DKW is a Trumpster" I always get.

Then please do.  I'd like to know what's fantasy and what's fact.

 

Trump thru MOST of that was a Loyal Democrat Party Supporting shill. 

Irrelevant. The only thing I am trying to illustrate is his long history of racism.  Doesn't matter if he self-described as a Democrat or whatever.

He is a dumbass, a charlatan, a fake, a fraud, a phony. He was also writing checks and getting awards from Rainbow/PUSH/NAN at the same time.

Yep

That is the part that my whackadoodle Liberal Brethren just cant comprehend. They can only see the hyperbole and the simpleton, childlike, faith they have in the Talking Points. Adults know that nothing in the world is 100% nor simple.

Sorry, but you need to expand on that.  It's incoherent.

 

If you think Trump has a paramilitary wing of the party marching in the streets, dressed in black, smashing faces of innocent people then...wait, wouldnt that be Antifa?

Again,

Trump is BAD. He is easily the worst President since Carter. He is totally unfit for the job. I NEVER supported him. But this brain dead drivel that tries to SIMPLY IGNORE what little the guy did good for BLACKS AND MINORITIES is just hyperbole.

Point out the "hyperbole" in the above article please.

Comparing him to Hitler???? Have you ever read a f'in history book? When the feeble-minded go off their rockers, it almost always starts with them shouting "Racism" and "Hitler Comparisons."

Who compared Trump to Hitler?  I have implied there are similarities between the cult of Trump and the cult of Hitler in terms of blind allegiance - i.e., the cult of personality, but I don't think I've seen anyone make direct comparisons of Trump to Hitler.  Please quote them if you think otherwise.

This is a rant without basis.

Trump is a lousy president, guaranteed crooked businessman, a man without morals. He is someone that should repel folks that care about character. The Right has abdicated ALL of that virtue forever.

Yep

But quit with the over-the-top bovine excrement.  

What specifically are you referring to?   Would you please quote it?

PART II: Any paper that contains the term Predicted Probability should start by examining the PP of Papers that contain the term PP as 100% bovine excrement.

This doesn't even make sense.  You need to re-state it.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,764]

38 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Then why did you say "another BS post"?

Because it was

[homersapien 11,354]

Oh, and for your continued study, here's an explanation of "predicted probability" and how it is calculated:

https://magoosh.com/statistics/what-is-predicted-probability/

What Is Predicted Probability?

 

 

[homersapien 11,354]

1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

Because it was

Don't care for sarcasm then?

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

23 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

Why do you need to provide an example? Well this is just a smack talk forum so you really don’t but I find it amusing you make such a strong assertion about me yet can provide no example to back up said assertion. What specific instance were you thinking about when you plunked out that claim on your keyboard? Or was it just following the “Mexico will pay for it” strategy that is so popular with the right wing these days?

 

“Strong assertion” ....

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

15 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone LIKES Trump. It isn’t about hate. He is unfit for the job. Because Democrats acknowkedge that the right yells that it’s because we hate him. 

You don’t like The Root. I could have used Snopes, the Washington Post, NBC, or the Anti Defamation League and they’d say the same thing. 

And sorry but someone whining that everything g is racist isn’t the same as someone who openly admits to being a Nazi. 

And people don't understand why you like Hillary. Different strokes different folks. It's the same thing that occurred with Obama. All complaints about Obama were only because individuals hated him.

I am not denying the number/statistics they quoted. You have asked what formats make people think certain ways or turn individuals from causes. The Root and it's messaging is one of those publications for me. They are an extreme left wing media outlet that contributes to the divide.

Those individuals are not just crying racism. They are also responsible for policy/law formation, its implementation, and leadership in their communities. They are influencing society. To be honest, least with the person admitting they are a Nazi you know where they stand from the beginning.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

Can you articulate exactly what it is about antifa positions - what they oppose, what they are for - that you find objectionable?  Or are you simply talking about specific behavior by some of them in their protests?

I really don't get throwing up antifa as a counter to the evil of fascists and white nationals.

Honestly I don't really want to walk this path very far with you. This is the type of discussions where you fall into name calling and accusing me of having too high of standards for what constitutes as white.

Why does it have to be a counter? Both groups suck for messaging, threats, violence, intimidation, stereotyping, destruction, lawlessness, and society as a whole. Why can't I denounce both equally? Why does one have to be more evil than the other? Why can't I just view both as groups that need elimination from our society cause I believe neither contributes anything positive to this country?

Why is it when around right supporters I say both groups suck and they agree. Then around left supporters there is often a defense of Antifa and put to question and trial?

I don't really get why I can't dislike both groups and want both eliminated..... can you tell me why I apparently have to choose one?

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

And your implication is......?

That the left is as responsible for ****** up s*** as the right.

[homersapien 11,354]

43 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Honestly I don't really want to walk this path very far with you. This is the type of discussions where you fall into name calling and accusing me of having too high of standards for what constitutes as white.

Well, you will just have to trust me.

Why does it have to be a counter? Both groups suck for messaging, threats, violence, intimidation, stereotyping, destruction, lawlessness, and society as a whole. Why can't I denounce both equally? Why does one have to be more evil than the other? Why can't I just view both as groups that need elimination from our society cause I believe neither contributes anything positive to this country?

My point is that antifa always seems to come up in discussions condemning racist groups.  I get that antifa have acted as anarchists at times - which is deporable and counter-productive - but that's a diversion from the actual point, which is what is their dogma  - their cannon of beliefs - that makes them the equivalent of overt racists?  Hell, even their name means "anti fascists".  What's so bad about that?

Why is it when around right supporters I say both groups suck and they agree. Then around left supporters there is often a defense of Antifa and put to question and trial?

Maybe they do both suck.  I totally understand why racists suck. What I am trying to get at is why does antifa suck, other than the unfortunate methods/actions they have employed? 

I don't really get why I can't dislike both groups and want both eliminated..... can you tell me why I apparently have to choose one?

That's classic "begging the question" tactics and doesn't merit a response.

 

[homersapien 11,354]

42 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

That the left is as responsible for ****** up s*** as the right.

You have a keen eye for the obvious.

But you need to be specific if you are going to claim something is "made up". 

There are very good reasons why black people make (possibly incorrect) claims or complaints about the application of police force (for example).  They aren't being "made up" out of the blue.  To simply dismiss such statements as a category is not merited.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

2 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

And people don't understand why you like Hillary. Different strokes different folks. It's the same thing that occurred with Obama. All complaints about Obama were only because individuals hated him.

I am not denying the number/statistics they quoted. You have asked what formats make people think certain ways or turn individuals from causes. The Root and it's messaging is one of those publications for me. They are an extreme left wing media outlet that contributes to the divide.

Those individuals are not just crying racism. They are also responsible for policy/law formation, its implementation, and leadership in their communities. They are influencing society. To be honest, least with the person admitting they are a Nazi you know where they stand from the beginning.

I’m sure people don’t understand. But the difference is I can explain with FACTS how she was more qualified for the job than Trump. This wasn’t like choosing a flavor of ice cream you like. This was hiring someone to the most important job in the land. And people chose the least intelligent, least qualified and least experienced person. Understand this, my complaints about Trump aren’t because I hate him. My complaints are because he is severely unfit to be POTUS. 

Like I stated, I could have used a number of sources. Antifa is not even in the ballpark of being as dangerous as White Supremacy. Hell, lettuce has killed more people than Antifa. 

Yeah they are making policies. Which makes me curious- Do you feel threatened by a person  who makes policies to combat racism? 

SMH- at least you know where a Nazi stands? Geezus. Are you freaking serious? You see a Nazi as less of a threat than someone who recognizes racism? Unreal.