Harold Joiner

[bigbird 60,367]

Just now, cole256 said:

Really?

[cole256 17,039]

Just now, bigbird said:

I've seen Gus defended on many things but if anybody tries to argue that then.....my God crown him the best coach in the country and be done with it lol

[bigbird 60,367]

5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I've seen Gus defended on many things but if anybody tries to argue that then.....my God crown him the best coach in the country and be done with it lol

He's also a top talent developer... specifically HS quarterbacks.

[creed 1,628]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

Our receivers don't run every route.

Devon Barrett(when he was a freshman): swing pass back

R Davis: screens and crosses

Slayton: deep routes 

Shed, Sal, NCM: big slot blockers

Hastings: Option/skip route

Sammie Coates: deep fly

Stove: reverse or jet

Ricardo Louis: reverse or deep pass

 

I think his analysis was pigeon holing players into positions not plays. But I see your point where receivers are only running certain plays by position. I guess it would have been an interesting experiment to see Sal run a jet sweep or a deep route.

[creed 1,628]

4 hours ago, cole256 said:

I've seen Gus defended on many things but if anybody tries to argue that then.....my God crown him the best coach in the country and be done with it lol

I didn't crown him anything. I think the play calling sucks. But pigeon holing players into positions i don't see it and I needed examples to understand the poster's position, which someone else had to supply. Looks like pigeon holing is alive and well on this board too..

[cole256 17,039]

41 minutes ago, creed said:

I didn't crown him anything. I think the play calling sucks. But pigeon holing players into positions i don't see it and I needed examples to understand the poster's position, which someone else had to supply. Looks like pigeon holing is alive and well on this board too..

I guess so because I said if anybody tries not I can't believe creed did.....

[Hopsing 572]

21 hours ago, creed said:

Can you give a few past examples of your analysis of pigeon holing players. 

Well look at pettway for example. It appeared he was destined to block for whomever until he was able to breakout.

WR for example, only certain ones go deep, and certain ones get screens. 

Now, maybe the use of the phrase “ pigeon holed” was not as accurate as I was meaning. However,  one would like to see RB or WR, or TE  get to be more versatile in their respective positions. 

Now I realize a lot is with CGM, and there is my point. Open it up Gus!

[AURealist 2,185]

14 hours ago, bigbird said:

He's also a top talent developer... specifically HS quarterbacks.

 

[au701948 996]

On 12/20/2018 at 11:29 AM, IronMan70 said:

Since day one I have thought Joiner is going to surprise a lot of people before his time is done at Auburn. I would rather they put 15-20 more pounds on him and use him in the Derrick Henry role. But whatever they do just use him.

That would be a great, but as you said...please just use him. Yu cannot keep signing top tier RB's and never allow them to see the field. It is ridiculous.

[milehighfan 1,239]

On 12/21/2018 at 6:41 AM, bigbird said:

Exactly what tubs did too. Highly ranked in February, then half couldn't qualify.

I remember that one class, I don't remember the year but it was some crazy number of players. 

I guess Tubs had his own test: Tubs-How much is 1+1?

Recruit- 3?

Tubs- Close enough 

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, au701948 said:

That would be a great, but as you said...please just use him. Yu cannot keep signing top tier RB's and never allow them to see the field. It is ridiculous.

He was a freshman and recruited as an athlete....and far as I recall, it was not clear-cut where he would play.   SO...IMO, there was no point in playing him just before he was ready.   Lots of older guys were apparently ahead of him this year.  He's a  redshirt and has a full career ahead of him.   Be patient and let's see where he ends up.  

 https://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2018/04/where_harold_joiner_fits_in_fo.html    Looks like Horton was his coach and guess he's the guy who was gonna decide when he was ready to play....and where> 

[Sizzle 3,909]

On December 21, 2018 at 5:17 AM, cole256 said:

Stopped recruiting him why?

Schools thought he was overrated. Recruiting services and colleges seen him 2 different ways. Tbh I kinda get it. He's a big guy but he doesn't run tough. He's more finesse

[thrustmaxwell 413]

On 12/22/2018 at 12:29 AM, bigbird said:

Our receivers don't run every route.

Devon Barrett(when he was a freshman): swing pass back

R Davis: screens and crosses

Slayton: deep routes 

Shed, Sal, NCM: big slot blockers

Hastings: Option/skip route

Sammie Coates: deep fly

Stove: reverse or jet

Ricardo Louis: reverse or deep pass

 

Hey, it worked at a 1A Private Christian HS football program, why wouldn't it work in the SEC?

[Rednilla 5,383]

2 hours ago, thrustmaxwell said:

Hey, it worked at a 1A Private Christian HS football program, why wouldn't it work in the SEC?

You do realize this is the same guy who won the Broyles Award for best coordinator in the nation, right? He hasn't been a high school coach since 2005, if memory serves me correctly, and he successfully coordinated 3 offenses (2 in the SEC) for 6 years before being named head coach at a college program. Give the whole spiel about how he's nothing but a high school coach a rest, would you?

[thrustmaxwell 413]

5 hours ago, Rednilla said:

You do realize this is the same guy who won the Broyles Award for best coordinator in the nation, right? He hasn't been a high school coach since 2005, if memory serves me correctly, and he successfully coordinated 3 offenses (2 in the SEC) for 6 years before being named head coach at a college program. Give the whole spiel about how he's nothing but a high school coach a rest, would you?

Please, do go on explaining how Gus' program management is what you see from elite college football head coaches.  I'll just sit here and wait for you to come up with a logical & rational answer instead of spewing emotional responses that really have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[MadtownTiger 363]

On 12/22/2018 at 3:54 PM, AURealist said:

 

I could be wrong, but I think if we could see the top of his head there would be something flying over it.

WDE!

[Rednilla 5,383]

2 hours ago, thrustmaxwell said:

Please, do go on explaining how Gus' program management is what you see from elite college football head coaches.  I'll just sit here and wait for you to come up with a logical & rational answer instead of spewing emotional responses that really have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

When did I say that his program management is what you see from elite college football head coaches? You took a shot at him, saying "Hey, it worked at a 1A Private Christian HS football program, why wouldn't it work in the SEC?" I listed his coaching credentials since he left the high school ranks (and, just for the record, his last high school coaching gig, which he was at for 5 years, was a 5A public school which was ranked in the top 10 programs nationally for at least his final season). Which one of those responses seems more driven by emotion? Which one seems more driven by logic and reason?

[thrustmaxwell 413]

39 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

When did I say that his program management is what you see from elite college football head coaches? You took a shot at him, saying "Hey, it worked at a 1A Private Christian HS football program, why wouldn't it work in the SEC?" I listed his coaching credentials since he left the high school ranks (and, just for the record, his last high school coaching gig, which he was at for 5 years, was a 5A public school which was ranked in the top 10 programs nationally for at least his final season). Which one of those responses seems more driven by emotion? Which one seems more driven by logic and reason?

Sigh.   Forests and trees and such.  EVERYTHING he does is subpar compared to elite teams.  Hence I joke around about the fact that he's High School Harry, as 90% of his background is as a High School coach running HS programs.  His inability to make changes to his offense, his inability to evaluate and properly utilize talent, how to effectively recruit for all positions, piss poor practice efficiency, not tapping into psychological training, his complete lack of ability to trust anyone to help improve the program.  All of it.  All of it is unfit for the SEC and unfit for Auburn.   I don't care if he won the Broyles.  Go look at that list and it's about 50/50 at best when deciding who will be effective Head coaches and who will be Peter Principled and fail.

Anyway, if you want to defend the shitshow offense we've seen since 2015 feel free to waste your cycles.  I just needed to take the time to make sure you were processing the totality of what I have said.  If you need me to speak slower or use smaller words, feel free to ask.  No judgements here.

[Rednilla 5,383]

41 minutes ago, thrustmaxwell said:

Sigh.   Forests and trees and such.  EVERYTHING he does is subpar compared to elite teams.  Hence I joke around about the fact that he's High School Harry, as 90% of his background is as a High School coach running HS programs.  His inability to make changes to his offense, his inability to evaluate and properly utilize talent, how to effectively recruit for all positions, piss poor practice efficiency, not tapping into psychological training, his complete lack of ability to trust anyone to help improve the program.  All of it.  All of it is unfit for the SEC and unfit for Auburn.   I don't care if he won the Broyles.  Go look at that list and it's about 50/50 at best when deciding who will be effective Head coaches and who will be Peter Principled and fail.

Anyway, if you want to defend the shitshow offense we've seen since 2015 feel free to waste your cycles.  I just needed to take the time to make sure you were processing the totality of what I have said.  If you need me to speak slower or use smaller words, feel free to ask.  No judgements here.

Well why don't you tell us how you really feel? 

You can have your issues with Malzahn, and that's fine, but don't fail to recognize that his offense is a primary reason why we won our first national championship in half a century and played for another one three years later (a season in which he won all kinds of coach of the year awards). Those are pretty historical (and elite) milestones he set. Now, I don't like finishing 7-5, either, just as I didn't like losing the SEC Championship Game and Peach Bowl last season, but I don't get off on trashing my alma mater's head coach when things aren't looking too good, even if he DID coach in the high school ranks for 15 years before spending the last 13 in college (do I need to do the math for you there, or can you figure out that 15/28 < 9/10?).

By the way, I've apparently mentioned this ad nauseam on AU Family, but maybe you don't know: I'm a writer. You might want to reconsider your usage of verbal slander when issuing a remonstrance regarding a moderator who was nicknamed Webster in high school.

[thrustmaxwell 413]

52 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

Well why don't you tell us how you really feel? 

You can have your issues with Malzahn, and that's fine, but don't fail to recognize that his offense is a primary reason why we won our first national championship in half a century and played for another one three years later (a season in which he won all kinds of coach of the year awards). Those are pretty historical (and elite) milestones he set. Now, I don't like finishing 7-5, either, just as I didn't like losing the SEC Championship Game and Peach Bowl last season, but I don't get off on trashing my alma mater's head coach when things aren't looking too good, even if he DID coach in the high school ranks for 15 years before spending the last 13 in college (do I need to do the math for you there, or can you figure out that 15/28 < 9/10?).

By the way, I've apparently mentioned this ad nauseam on AU Family, but maybe you don't know: I'm a writer. You might want to reconsider your usage of verbal slander when issuing a remonstrance regarding a moderator who was nicknamed Webster in high school.

Yes, and then Gus was exposed as the One Trick Pony he is by Kirby and Pruitt, decided we don't need to recruit OL, QB, or RB very well, and everything else you should have noticed in the interim.  Cam Newton with an offense no one had really seen before.  Nick Marshall is probably the most underrated athlete in recent college football history and we had a Jeff Grimes recruited OL.

Please tell me how all of these facts fit into your narrative,  scribe.  I'm not much of a writer but I can damn sure process some facts.

[Rednilla 5,383]

1 hour ago, thrustmaxwell said:

Yes, and then Gus was exposed as the One Trick Pony he is by Kirby and Pruitt, decided we don't need to recruit OL, QB, or RB very well, and everything else you should have noticed in the interim.  Cam Newton with an offense no one had really seen before.  Nick Marshall is probably the most underrated athlete in recent college football history and we had a Jeff Grimes recruited OL.

Please tell me how all of these facts fit into your narrative,  scribe.  I'm not much of a writer but I can damn sure process some facts.

So you're saying that one trick worked two times (three if you include last year's manhandling of the #1 team in the nation at each turn of Amen Corner, when he was without Newton and Marshall)? Wow, he must be either damned lucky or damned good to pull that one off!

I'm not saying he is without flaws. I will say he recruited Kerryon Johnson, who has averaged better than 5 yards a carry for 5-10 Detroit during his rookie season in the NFL. He also recruited Peyton Barber, Kamryn Pettway, Shaun Shivers (who absolutely tore up South Florida prep football, which is pretty outstanding, even if he is only five and a half feet tall), and Asa Martin (yes, he let Martin play in 5 games this year, thus blowing his redshirt and possibly prompting his transfer to Miami...though that transfer could also be because he's been passed on the depth chart by both Shivers and Boobee Whitlow), so it's hard to say he hasn't recruited RB very well. And he recruited Jarrett Stidham, who threw for 3,100 yards last year. And Joey Gatewood, who was a top 50 prospect in last year's recruiting class. And Bo Nix, who is a top 50 prospect in this year's recruiting class.

So he hasn't been slacking so much recruiting running backs and quarterbacks. I won't go into offensive line recruiting, because that was the team's Achilles heel this year (though there have been some pretty decent recruits along those positions, as well, just experience was lacking in 2018...and the 2017 group, which was pretty stout, were all recruited by Gus). I will, however, remind you that we play in the toughest conference in the nation, a fact made even more potent when coupled with the one about our permanent rival from the Eastern division being Georgia, a traditional SEC power who is currently on the upswing, and that the big out of conference game in each of the past two years was against a team that finished the regular season in the top 10 in the country (Washington is at #9, even though they lost to us). It's pretty easy to understand why things seem to be boom or bust on the Plains when you consider that.

Look, I don't agree with everything Malzahn does or has done, but I know that he's had double digit victory totals in 2 of his 6 seasons as head coach on the Plains, a rate which matches or betters every coach ever to lead this team. And I still think he's done enough to deserve at least the slack needed to garner the support of Auburn fans through 2019. You quite obviously disagree. And that's fine. You know what they say about opinions.

But don't expect not to get called out when you take cheap shots at the engineer of Auburn's last two SEC championship teams.

[thrustmaxwell 413]

12 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

So you're saying that one trick worked two times (three if you include last year's manhandling of the #1 team in the nation at each turn of Amen Corner, when he was without Newton and Marshall)? Wow, he must be either damned lucky or damned good to pull that one off!

I'm not saying he is without flaws. I will say he recruited Kerryon Johnson, who has averaged better than 5 yards a carry for 5-10 Detroit during his rookie season in the NFL. He also recruited Peyton Barber, Kamryn Pettway, Shaun Shivers (who absolutely tore up South Florida prep football, which is pretty outstanding, even if he is only five and a half feet tall), and Asa Martin (yes, he let Martin play in 5 games this year, thus blowing his redshirt and possibly prompting his transfer to Miami...though that transfer could also be because he's been passed on the depth chart by both Shivers and Boobee Whitlow), so it's hard to say he hasn't recruited RB very well. And he recruited Jarrett Stidham, who threw for 3,100 yards last year. And Joey Gatewood, who was a top 50 prospect in last year's recruiting class. And Bo Nix, who is a top 50 prospect in this year's recruiting class.

So he hasn't been slacking so much recruiting running backs and quarterbacks. I won't go into offensive line recruiting, because that was the team's Achilles heel this year (though there have been some pretty decent recruits along those positions, as well, just experience was lacking in 2018...and the 2017 group, which was pretty stout, were all recruited by Gus). I will, however, remind you that we play in the toughest conference in the nation, a fact made even more potent when coupled with the one about our permanent rival from the Eastern division being Georgia, a traditional SEC power who is currently on the upswing, and that the big out of conference game in each of the past two years was against a team that finished the regular season in the top 10 in the country (Washington is at #9, even though they lost to us). It's pretty easy to understand why things seem to be boom or bust on the Plains when you consider that.

Look, I don't agree with everything Malzahn does or has done, but I know that he's had double digit victory totals in 2 of his 6 seasons as head coach on the Plains, a rate which matches or betters every coach ever to lead this team. And I still think he's done enough to deserve at least enough slack to garner the support of Auburn fans through 2019. You quite obviously disagree. And that's fine. You know what they say about opinions.

But don't expect not to get called out when you take cheap shots at the engineer of Auburn's last two SEC championship teams.

Yep, you're right.  Carry on.

[Rednilla 5,383]

13 minutes ago, thrustmaxwell said:

Yep, you're right.  Carry on.

I know I'm a sunshine pumper. That's okay. I can't help but to think the best of my beloved Auburn Tigers.

[thrustmaxwell 413]

6 hours ago, Rednilla said:

I know I'm a sunshine pumper. That's okay. I can't help but to think the best of my beloved Auburn Tigers.

Sounds like cognitive dissonance, or setting yourself up for failure.  Not sure which.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Malzahn needs to play Harold a lot more. Harold is a big back and that's what need more of. Big RB's who can run right through you.